EE Update Feature

[Jose Eber]

(Eddie Sotto incase you care)

Is it scary when I know who you are talking about, remember conversations and seeing presentations by that person --- but can't place a time period as to when!

el oh el! I am going senile.

Well, he left Disney a while ago didn't he? Wonder how he is doing. Remember when Progress City was just getting started.

Anywho --- I agree with you there -- the concept of a single designer is soooo rare these days. I think culturally speaking -- at least now in the U.S./Canada slowly over the last nearly 50 years -- people more and more have had this visceral criticism/rejection of leadership and single minded direction (regardless where the direction was heading too!). There is so much insecurity in our country!

That said, I know when it comes to me -- that single minded sort of vision is so critical to getting things done the way it should get done -- and frankly who knows best? Everyone? I doubt that. 'Best' for one person is usually VERY different from another's 'best'.

I find it funny people wanting radical change, then joining a corporation thinking it can be done in that arena.

Anyway, I could go on -- but I have stuff to do.

J.

 

[Lee]

1st. Mr. Lassiter only has some kind of supervising power, (again a newly created job) but absolutely NO power over Creative...

2nd. I can imagine, Mr. Iger is not satisfied with with the current WDI business model...

3rd. He did NOT say which model or era he wants to return to...

At the moment, noone knows what he's up to... for that matter, it could well be going in a totally different direction, one that we're not thinking of...
He doesn't mean, "the good old days" when[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif], Imagineering was insulated from much financial scrutiny. [/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The days of "You can't put a price tag on creativity" are long gone and will be for ever...[/FONT]

The problem is... As long as BOTH, Mr. Iger & Mr. Lassiter, still talk about, 'How tiny Imagineering can be and still maintain a strategic advantage,' in discussions about whether Imagineering should be zero." as competitors like Universal Studios do much of their theme park development using outside contractors, keeping fewer than 100 creative employees on the payroll.
And Nowadays this Mr. Iger is wondering, whether Disney should follow that model.

So Mr. Iger has no plans on changing these ideas, but we finally know where Mr. Iger is heading... and if he gets his way, Disney will fall back about 15 years, and that's not good (at least not for Creative)

I've said it before... I don't trust Mr. Iger... (mind me the expression, and I'm glad I retired just in time... IMO

Interesting take on it, Corrus.
What I was TOLD went something like this, bearing in mind I get it second hand:
Iger is not happy with the "tiny WDI" model, as well as the "build an unfinished park then expand it as people complain" way of park design. A lot of that seems to be favored by J. Rasulo and some management (you can pretty much guess who) at WDI who feel sort of untouchable,and have been doing his bidding to stay in favor.
Lassater was put into place for a couple reasons. One is he really wanted the job, to the point where for him it was a deal breaker on the whole Pixar purchase. Secondly, Iger knew how creative Lassater could be, and wanted someone in place who could move ideas straight from Creative up the line to Iger without having to run the ususal gauntlet of office politics and money men. That's why Lassater reports directly to Iger and not to Rasulo or anyone at WDI.
The person who told me this painted an amusing picture of Lassater's first visit to WDI with Rasulo. Supposedly, you could see two camps being formed, one was Lassater and Creative, and the other Rasulo and management. The good thing seems to be that Lassater and Creative have the most stroke nowdays.

 

[Legacy]

I want to respond with an well thought-out posts... but I really do not feel like thinking that hard.

So...

I think the Yeti should sit next to the tracks and eat a bowl of cereal. Then, he can growl at the guest when they past.

I think THAT should have been the big climax.

My armchair-imagineering is down for the day.

 

[BwanaBob]

I want to respond with an well thought-out posts... but I really do not feel like thinking that hard.

So...

I think the Yeti should sit next to the tracks and eat a bowl of cereal. Then, he can growl at the guest when they past.

I think THAT should have been the big climax.

My armchair-imagineering is down for the day.

Yeah, J...

But then they would argue over Frosted Flakes vs. Fruity Pebbles.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Yeah, J...

But then they would argue over Frosted Flakes vs. Fruity Pebbles.

Frosted Flakes.

I just spent my 100th post on cereal. :lookaroun

 

[fundesign]

Meh, I've done renderings and digital/physical models and people have gone crazy too -- dreaming is one thing, doing it /building it is another.

When I talk resources -- I'm talking about having your own brand content/small economy and cash (even if its through a bank) to open up your own venue/location. That's why I was 'sort of' writing you off. You are no Walt or Roy Disney (Sr!).

You can talk a great game -- but honestly -- you are still talking about creating things within the existing Disney Theme park model of doing business.

For me, a true innovator will come up with something outside of that -- outside of the parks, on his or her own in his or own arena, whatever that may be.

Really creative people are not terribly co-operative -- history shows us that the inventors, the poets, the creative type -- they are off doing this on their own or in a pair at most.

For me, there is little to be said for sensory overload -- all that is is some designer with little ability to think through an attraction and just 'turns up the volume' or intensity so to speak and walks away (see: Dinosaur and parts of A Bugs Life -- and Stitch or even Mission Space).

Again, I'm only focusing on creativity -- which to be honest -- I'm not sure Walt had a whole lot of -- I think his skills were in the entertainer field. People just gave freely their time and money to be entertained by his films and attractions.

What happened when Walt, then Roy died -- is you had the entertainer and the innovator pass on, and what was left was a room full of engineers and artists with a total vacuum of creative/entertainer leadership. Now these folks took the company's WDI into a whole different direction.

EPCOT -- from a conceptual standpoint is utterly retarded. There is no thought behind 'permanent world's fair'. Walt envisioned something utterly different. Walt was smart -- he stopped with the MK -- too bad WDI hasn't really figured that one out yet. All you engineers or artists or detail oriented folks havn't (and might never) figure out -- is that you lack the goods to entertain folks.

Period.

Even creative folks alone don't have the entertainment 'bone' if you will.

I wish someone who was a real entertainer and then paired him up with an innovator like Roy Sr. came along and took over the company.

But this criticizing the Disney company saying Disney lost it in the details just sooo smacks of engineer/artists speak.

Disney Co. knows details -- those sorts of folks these days aren't too hard to come by -- its the idea man and entertainer which are a dying breed.

Now once you've figured out WHY they are a dying breed, then come talk to me -- we'll be on the same page.

Good luck working along side Disney! There's nothing wrong with it -- just don't present yourself as a creative visionary when the more you speak, the less it sounds like you are one. You sound like someone with an art background, stick to that.

We certainly agree on your first point. The dream is only the beginning as I've pointed out in previous posts. My 11 year old daughter could come up with any of these basic ideas. In my professional attraction design career I've held positions in project management, creative development and ride and show systems engineering. So I have financial pro-formas, detailed projections, realistic design intent documents, budgets, schedules, marketing plans etc. attached to the pretty drawings.

Who said all of our concepts and park designs were anything like the Disney theme park model of doing business? I can assure you some are quite different and just as much a departure from the current theme parks as Disneyland was a departure from the Amusement park.

I don't know what your professional experience is, if any. I suspect you have little experience in the creative field as your limited personal definition of creativity lacks a few finer points. Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity and then explain to me how Walt Disney wasn't creative.

Now I must head off to Everest for a cereal creativity study.

 

[fundesign]

We certainly agree on your first point. The dream is only the beginning as I've pointed out in previous posts. My 11 year old daughter could come up with any of these basic ideas. In my professional attraction design career I've held positions in project management, creative development and ride and show systems engineering. So I have financial pro-formas, detailed projections, realistic design intent documents, budgets, schedules, marketing plans etc. attached to the pretty drawings.

Who said all of our concepts and park designs were anything like the Disney theme park model of doing business? I can assure you some are quite different and just as much a departure from the current theme parks as Disneyland was a departure from the Amusement park.

I don't know what your professional experience is, if any. I suspect you have little experience in the creative field as your limited personal definition of creativity lacks a few finer points. Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity and then explain to me how Walt Disney wasn't creative.

Now I must head off to Everest for a cereal creativity study.

After re-reading I realize that we probably agree on more than we disagree. My comment about creativity was a bit of a cheap shot and I apologize. I hope we can continue this discussion without letting it devolve further into personal attacks.

NOW I'm going to eat some cereal...

 

[Jose Eber]

I don't expect you to really agree with my understanding of creativity nor do I expect any average person to see that the Disney company was originally about two visions, not just Walt's (I can't believe I'm siding with Roy Jr's predilections! lol).

Remember - Walt gets a lot of credit -- Roy Sr. however seems to have been forgotten -- maybe because he let Walt be the frontrunner with the public?

Disney's (both Walt and Roy) work is creative and entertaining.

Its just I conveniently label one brother as creative, and the other as an entertainer.

I also don't find your average artist very creative either. I'm sure you'll disagree with that too.

I vouch for Mini Wheats ...with goat's milk of course.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

In following the almost civil back and forth on this subject, I can't help but think of similar arguments about movies. Some movies are made as serious social statements, some are serious drama, some are good guys/bad guys shoot 'em up, blow things up, some are fantasy, some romantic, some raunchy "fun", some for kids. All are entertainment, all types are enjoyed by various sized audiences. The "movie critic" may not like Star Wars or Blazing Saddles or Barbershop, but that doesn't mean that they were made wrong.

Occasionally there is a movie that seems to cross over a lot of different audiences and is tremendously successful. I don't believe the makers have a formula to set out to make that kind of movie, it just happens.

Same with Disney attractions. Some mostly for the young, some for thrill seekers, some for those enjoying live performance, some that serve many. It was that way from Walt's beginnings to the present.

Steps down from soapbox....sorry

 

[Jose Eber]

Wow, that was diplomatic. I should take lessons from you.

Fundesign -- one thing/question to add -- with your new ventures (the non-disney ones) -- you are being contracted out by another, larger company correct?

You aren't creating and owning your own entertainment venue/entity etc. right?

 

[dandaman]

I don't want to get into this "big-worded" discussion... so, I'll just say that I want some Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. :lookaroun

 

[Tim G]

I don't expect you to really agree with my understanding of creativity nor do I expect any average person to see that the Disney company was originally about two visions, not just Walt's (I can't believe I'm siding with Roy Jr's predilections! lol).

Remember - Walt gets a lot of credit -- Roy Sr. however seems to have been forgotten -- maybe because he let Walt be the frontrunner with the public?

Disney's (both Walt and Roy) work is creative and entertaining.

Its just I conveniently label one brother as creative, and the other as an entertainer.

I also don't find your average artist very creative either. I'm sure you'll disagree with that too.

I vouch for Mini Wheats ...with goat's milk of course.

Roy E. Disney, lacked creativity and was therefore made the company's CFO, and only set foot in Imagineering exactly once.
After had Walt died, Roy E. almost led the company into bankrupty.

So it's the best to forget him...

And Roy O... (the spoiled to the bone, son)
He had even less abilities than his father, but does have the same selfish nature...

As things go in business, they needed the Disney name in the company, and created a brand new position in Feature Animation for Royboy... in which he failed... (like father, like son)
While they still needed the name, they let him keep tittle, which was so very omportant for him, but found something better (PR like) to do for him...
Now there was a real Disney, for ie. opening ceremonies, and movie premiere nights... and he loved it...

And IMO your words, seeing him as an entertainer, is giving him too much credit...

Now the shouting may start by the people who adore him... not knowing him like the company did...


Oh, what the heck! I don't think this hasn't got anything to do with Everest... Back on topic! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Lee]

Not to nit-pick...but you got the middle initials backwards, Corrus. :wave:

 

[Tim G]

Not to nit-pick...but you got the middle initials backwards, Corrus. :wave:

OOPS!... I always mix them up... because they're so much alike... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Enderikari]

Roy E. Disney, lacked creativity and was therefore made the company's CFO, and only set foot in Imagineering exactly once.
After had Walt died, Roy O. almost led the company into bankrupty.

Corrus... that may just be the most incorrect thing I have ever seen you post on these boards... If there was any member of the Disney family who was driving the company to Bankruptcy, it was Walt. Roy was the one who provided the funding and developed the relationships with the banks in order to get the loans needed. Maybe not the creativity that you are used to, but creativity nonetheless. At what point did Roy, without his brother, almost lead the company into bankruptcy? Was it when he built Walt Disney World Resort almost entirely without loans? Was it when he had the foresight to lay the groundwork to repurchase the Tempo Bay Resort and the Polynesian Resort from U.S. Steel? Or was it when he came out of a semi-retirement to finish Walt Disney World? Perhaps when he cancelled the Mineral King Ski Resort because the idea was far too farfetched? Cal Arts?
Just because he had nothing to do with imagineering (and why would he, it caused the single largest rift between him and his brother) doesn't mean he wasn't creative, just not by your definition.

 

[Tim G]

Corrus... that may just be the most incorrect thing I have ever seen you post on these boards... If there was any member of the Disney family who was driving the company to Bankruptcy, it was Walt. Roy was the one who provided the funding and developed the relationships with the banks in order to get the loans needed. Maybe not the creativity that you are used to, but creativity nonetheless. At what point did Roy, without his brother, almost lead the company into bankruptcy? Was it when he built Walt Disney World Resort almost entirely without loans? Was it when he had the foresight to lay the groundwork to repurchase the Tempo Bay Resort and the Polynesian Resort from U.S. Steel? Or was it when he came out of a semi-retirement to finish Walt Disney World? Perhaps when he cancelled the Mineral King Ski Resort because the idea was far too farfetched? Cal Arts?
Just because he had nothing to do with imagineering (and why would he, it caused the single largest rift between him and his brother) doesn't mean he wasn't creative, just not by your definition.

Please do me a favor... read your history... please I'm telling you the truth....

I knew there would be ignorant admirers, I wrote that in that post too...

Do you personally know RoyBoy???
Do know how he worked?
Do you know how productive he was??
What came actually out of his hands, (can't say brains)

Guess not, except what you read...

I knew Roy (JR) personally...
I knew what he was like...
I've seen his "work"

Can you say the same?? guess not...

E.O.D.

 

[Enderikari]

Please do me a favor... read your history... please I'm telling you the truth....

You got me wrong on this one, Roy Jr. I am not admirer of the man who even Walt referred to as his idiot nephew... As far as I am concerned he could keep sailing his yacht and showing up to special events based on the strength of name alone. He has never been fit to make business decisions, and his Save Disney campaign was a desperate plea for attention, and perhaps the single worst thing to happen to the easily-led internet followers who were the only ones who believed him.

My comments were about Roy Oliver Disney, the older brother... the one who came out of retirement at the age of 73 to finish Walt World. The one who spent 5 years building the resort, giving everything, including his life to finishing the project (he died 2 months after WDW opened.)

You don't want to continue this argument, we are in agreement about the man you hated (whom I have met, I don't like a man who won't shake your hand when offered)

 

[Tim G]

the one who came out of retirement at the age of 73 to finish Walt World. The one who spent 5 years building the resort, giving everything, including his life to finishing the project (he died 2 months after WDW opened.)

And almost had to file for bankrupty (no really)

And I don't "hate" people... never and no one, that's not my nature...

But you should go to some library and read some business/econmy books...
It's all there, the trouble is, that it's kept quiet by the company... But shurely, things like that were bound to be spread.. which happened

I thought everyone knew... obviously not... well, now they do...


BTW. I did shake his hand... but always business like...

 

[Enderikari]

I don't "hate" people... never and no one, that's not my nature...

But you should go to some library and read some business/econmy books...
It's all there, the trouble is, that it's kept quiet by the company... But shurely, things like that were bound to be spread.. which happened

I thought everyone knew... obviously not... well, now they do...


BTW. I did shake his hand... but always business like...

When it comes to the business side/ economy side of the Walt Disney Company, believe me, I know more than the average guest, but less than I would like. However, the facts of the cancellation of the mineral king project (one of walt's ideas), the purchase of Tempo Bay and Polynesian from U.S. Steel.

The problem seems to be seems to be seperating the father, Roy Oliver, from the son, Roy Edward. I never had to luck to meet Roy O., but I would almost be more interested in meeting him than meeting Walt. He, like Walt did some amazing things... And without Roy, Walt would have bankrupted the company. However, I will concede that it is true that there were some "creative" financings that went into building WDW. But it still got built, and most of that is thanks to Roy, the father.

Roy, the son... Crazy, attention-grabbing figurehead who's only value is to appease other crazies.

 

[Jose Eber]

Where on EARTH did I say Roy Jr was creative Corrus? Gawd no! Personally I think the guy doesn't think clearly and is emotionally reactive. He sits there brings Eisner in, then 20 years later beeyotches about it? (rolls eyes). Crazy kid. I think he's good though as a figurehead for the company -- it needs that imo -- and he's invaluable at that -- you can't take that away from him.

Roy Sr. however -- different story. He had to pull some very creative financing and really 'sell' bankers on Walt's visions before they were reality. To me -- you have to be extremely creative to sell. VERY creative. The best salesmen I've met thought a mile a minute and are amazingly practical/bottom line in getting things done. And, obviously -- Roy excelled in that regard. He never said no to his younger brother (probably should have more at times lol), instead, nurtured his younger siblings huge ambitions.

So yes, you can have 'creative' financing. And yes, sometimes it doesn't work out all the time. But other times, like in Roy's case -- he created a framework and structure to build what today you could almost call an empire.

You sound ignunt there Corrus about Roy Sr. and are a little too harsh on him. Roy Sr. needed to be sooo flippin creative to keep the financing going, in your idols words:

"We started the business here in 1923, and if it hadn't been for my big brother, I swear I'd've been in jail several times for checks bouncing. I never knew what was in the bank. He kept me on the straight and narrow."

So think about that -- Roy Sr was saving the company from Walt's spending habits.

O.k. -- that's just one quote -- but i get sooooo tired of folks limiting creativity to the sterotypical: the 'creative fields' -- when really, many of those fields are made up of artists, engineers and technicians who don't have a creative bone in their body, are deluded into thinking themselves as creative -- but do fantastic detail work regardless, materializing a seemingly endless amount of concrete detail necessary for entertainment vision.

Some of those who are actually creative (and there is good and bad with that, like any skill set) apply their creative juices to the world of finance and business and find it very challenging yet rewarding. It might be a more private way to work, but its fun to them. I see Roy Sr. as one of these folks.

I guess I feel like I know a creative person when I see one -- and in Roy -- I see someone very private, but also very practical and creative, the ultimate salesman.

J.


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