flavious27
Well-Known Member
And the Disney brothers were laughing all the way to the bank. I think it is great that amusements parks today try for a little bit of the DL feel.
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
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And the Disney brothers were laughing all the way to the bank. I think it is great that amusements parks today try for a little bit of the DL feel.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
The "Focus Group" story was indeed an excellent read.
History is marked with those rare-but-great moments when the experts and conventional wisdom say something is impossible, too expensive, too risky, doomed to fail, etc., and the Visionary comes along, proves everyone wrong and changes the model forever.
My hope is that those currently running the Disney company understand exactly why Disneyland was a success - by being everything the Focus Group said it shouldn't be. While there have been many achievements in recent times that reflect that original vision (the Oasis at Animal Kingdom being an example of a non-revenue producing aesthetic area, Hunny Hunt being an example of a not-off-the-shelf ride), there have also been some decisions that reflect the Focus Group's recommendations (i.e., carny games at some parks; removing authentic interior detail in some Main Street shops to provide better lighting/shelf space; removal (with no equivalent replacement) of many of non-revenue producing attractions/entertainment for cost-cutting purposes).
Still, I'm fairly optimistic about the near-term future of Parks & Resorts with respect to much of the development that is taking place at the moment.
History is marked with those rare-but-great moments when the experts and conventional wisdom say something is impossible, too expensive, too risky, doomed to fail, etc., and the Visionary comes along, proves everyone wrong and changes the model forever.
My hope is that those currently running the Disney company understand exactly why Disneyland was a success - by being everything the Focus Group said it shouldn't be. While there have been many achievements in recent times that reflect that original vision (the Oasis at Animal Kingdom being an example of a non-revenue producing aesthetic area, Hunny Hunt being an example of a not-off-the-shelf ride), there have also been some decisions that reflect the Focus Group's recommendations (i.e., carny games at some parks; removing authentic interior detail in some Main Street shops to provide better lighting/shelf space; removal (with no equivalent replacement) of many of non-revenue producing attractions/entertainment for cost-cutting purposes).
Still, I'm fairly optimistic about the near-term future of Parks & Resorts with respect to much of the development that is taking place at the moment.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Hey Eddie I am wondering what you think of this idea I have for DHS.
I think that the part of the park that is not being utilized to its potential is the northeastern portion of the park. One of the biggest problems is the amount of space that the Hollywood Hills Amphitheater is taking up and only being used two or three times a week. Another is that there is a nice sized lake that just serves as a water parking lot instead of being tied into any other aspect of the park.
What I propose is a redevelopment of the northeastern part of the park, along with rearranging the park entrance. This is the mockup:
The biggest and most expensive project will be the demolition of HHA and the backstage area of fantasmic, with a new area built. The replacement would be a multi leveled plaza that faces South Lake. The look would be kind of a mix between the world of color viewing area and the area around the world showcase lagoon. The viewing area would be a relaxing place, where guests would be able to sit on lay down on grassy areas while there would be benches for other guests to sit down on. Guests would not be squeezed into bleachers to fill up the 10k capacity.
This South Lake Amphitheater can be used during the day for various events and concerts using floating stages. At night, there would be a new night time event that would not be a clone, but an original show. Also, the daily finale of the American Idol Experience would act as the opening act for the night time event. This new amphitheater would be versatile, so it can be used all during the day.
The next redevelopment would be the demolition of the Theater of the Stars. What I am imaging is an enclosed, permanent theater building that can be used for not just theater productions but also dinner show productions at night. I like the exterior of the fictional studio on the show Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, the look of the building fits in with the theme of Sunset Blvd.
With the removal of the Hollywood Hills Amphitheater and more northeastern placement of the South Lake Amphitheater, there is now a large area that has opened up that can be used for an attraction. I think that a Roger the Rabbit attraction would fit into the theme of the Sunset Blvd area. The only restriction is that it does not interfere with how ToT fits into the look of the Moroccan Pavilion.
This is just a mockup I made up of an idea I have for this area. The biggest changes for DHS would be finally using the South Lake, and more efficiently using the performance areas in the park to create magical experiences for guests.
I think that the part of the park that is not being utilized to its potential is the northeastern portion of the park. One of the biggest problems is the amount of space that the Hollywood Hills Amphitheater is taking up and only being used two or three times a week. Another is that there is a nice sized lake that just serves as a water parking lot instead of being tied into any other aspect of the park.
What I propose is a redevelopment of the northeastern part of the park, along with rearranging the park entrance. This is the mockup:
The biggest and most expensive project will be the demolition of HHA and the backstage area of fantasmic, with a new area built. The replacement would be a multi leveled plaza that faces South Lake. The look would be kind of a mix between the world of color viewing area and the area around the world showcase lagoon. The viewing area would be a relaxing place, where guests would be able to sit on lay down on grassy areas while there would be benches for other guests to sit down on. Guests would not be squeezed into bleachers to fill up the 10k capacity.
This South Lake Amphitheater can be used during the day for various events and concerts using floating stages. At night, there would be a new night time event that would not be a clone, but an original show. Also, the daily finale of the American Idol Experience would act as the opening act for the night time event. This new amphitheater would be versatile, so it can be used all during the day.
The next redevelopment would be the demolition of the Theater of the Stars. What I am imaging is an enclosed, permanent theater building that can be used for not just theater productions but also dinner show productions at night. I like the exterior of the fictional studio on the show Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, the look of the building fits in with the theme of Sunset Blvd.
With the removal of the Hollywood Hills Amphitheater and more northeastern placement of the South Lake Amphitheater, there is now a large area that has opened up that can be used for an attraction. I think that a Roger the Rabbit attraction would fit into the theme of the Sunset Blvd area. The only restriction is that it does not interfere with how ToT fits into the look of the Moroccan Pavilion.
This is just a mockup I made up of an idea I have for this area. The biggest changes for DHS would be finally using the South Lake, and more efficiently using the performance areas in the park to create magical experiences for guests.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
That would be amazing. See, that's why it's been so disapointing to be a Disney fan of late. They just don't seem to be pushing the envelope of the Dark Ride. When I look at video of the monster in Journey to the Center of the Earth in Tokyo, my jaw just drops.
Dark Rides still are no where near as explored as much as they could be. I have extremely high hopes for the Mine Train and Mermaid, as those are my two favorite Disney films, but obviously they will not be on that scale.
Disney just doesn't seem to do "big" any more, and seems content to let Universal take the reigns as they had the #1 dark ride of the 00's, and now with Potter apparently of the 10's as well.
Disneyparksgeek
New Member
I wouldn't jump the gun by saying Harry Potter is the dark ride of the 10's. I think Disney could create something ground breaking or spectacular within the next few years.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
They could, but will they? And if they do, will it be at Walt Disney World, the flagship resort? Disney could have tried to top The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man, but they did not.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and it's not like Harry Potter just came up out of the swamp and appeared there. They could have gotten something rolling by now.
Again, I am absolutely tickled with Snow White and Mermaid. The fact that Disney is doing things with AA's again and not freakin' video screens is amazing, and those two are the films I love the most. Our Fantasyland is finally going from the bottom of the heap of Disney parks to quite possibly the top.
But it just seems so doubtful that there is a real, true e-ticket dark ride in the offings. Everything we hear about is not really a dark ride. Like the Monsters Inc coaster.
I'll be so happy if they do, but they let the 00's slip by with nothing great and it wouldn't surprise me if they do so this decade. So, so excited about what we are getting - but they certainly aren't going to up the game with them, either.
HMF
Well-Known Member
It looks like WDI/WED is hiring Show Producers outright.
https://disney.recruitmax.com/main/...282904&szReturnToSearch=1&szWordsToHighlight=
I might not need to start out in Show Writing after all. My original plan was to Major in English and Minor in Theater. Now I might reverse that.
https://disney.recruitmax.com/main/...282904&szReturnToSearch=1&szWordsToHighlight=
I might not need to start out in Show Writing after all. My original plan was to Major in English and Minor in Theater. Now I might reverse that.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
HMF
Well-Known Member
Apply or declare a major?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
HMF
Well-Known Member
Here is the wording on the page "BA/BS in theater, film, design, or entertainment preferred"
Not sure if I should do Film or theater since they are both useful. Cannot do design since I could not draw well even if I had a gun pointed at my head. Probably should still minor in English/writing since I still would like to do some Show Writing. It's a relief seeing what they actually want rather than me guessing what they would want
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Eddie, I have a question for you regarding new plans.
What do you think of the way plans are released prior to ground being broken? For example the FantasyLand Expansion. The original concept art released to the public included many elements and attractions that have now been cut or replaced. In your opinion is it a benefit to let the plans out and gauge public sentiment? If there is a major backlash against something, then it can be altered. Or if the reaction is a predominantly positive one then maybe Disney feels better about their investment. I can see both sides of the argument here. On the one hand it is a huge focus group that is giving you feedback. But on the other hand there is only so much we can glean from concept art seen online, so our opinions are half baked at best. Is listening to Joe Public really wise?
I do enjoy getting to look at concept art, and it certainly does feed into the excitement of the new additions. However, I think they should play things closer to the vest until the plans are set in stone.
What do you think of the way plans are released prior to ground being broken? For example the FantasyLand Expansion. The original concept art released to the public included many elements and attractions that have now been cut or replaced. In your opinion is it a benefit to let the plans out and gauge public sentiment? If there is a major backlash against something, then it can be altered. Or if the reaction is a predominantly positive one then maybe Disney feels better about their investment. I can see both sides of the argument here. On the one hand it is a huge focus group that is giving you feedback. But on the other hand there is only so much we can glean from concept art seen online, so our opinions are half baked at best. Is listening to Joe Public really wise?
I do enjoy getting to look at concept art, and it certainly does feed into the excitement of the new additions. However, I think they should play things closer to the vest until the plans are set in stone.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Good one. Never really thought about it. I do think that "major backlashes" are not necessarily a good indicator as the fan base is a minority and not the same as the general public, and sometimes a "Matterhorn is made of a Molehill". The company as a whole does not design directly for the fan as you know. It's good to know how the fans feel and they sneak in pleasers, but in some cases, the reality of what ends up in the park is not as bad as the fans feared and the issue evaporates. The fanbase is pretty hard to please and cynical these days, so designing to calm that diverse storm of voices may be impossible. There are somethings the fans like that shock me as well. Never can tell, but being a fan, we all have our right to say what we think.
You would imagine that by the time they are ready to blow 100 million to a Billion dollars on something and show the art, they would be pretty confident in what they are doing and would have secretly tested the idea with focus groups or fans, etc. I'm not sure that the fans had much to do with the rethink of WDW F'land, as much as the change in upper management made the slate in question.
Orangelake555
Member
Would you care to elaborate on the bolded sentence? What you may have worked on that fans have latched onto that you never really thought they would, or even notice at all?
HBG2
Member
Just to piggyback on that, who is it that keeps tabs on the scuttlebutt out there? Is it a loose, haphazard thing or are there guys upstairs who make it their job to sorta monitor the chatboards? Or is it just individual artist Imagineers who may or may not pay attention? We're often told that "Disney" reads the boards, and indeed you see evidence of it from time to time, but what does "Disney" mean here?
Secondly, are certain fan bases given more serious attention than others? Would they makes change to the steam trains, for example, without worrying a little about reaction from the train lover community? And of course there are the HM fans, an unusually passionate and vocal bunch with a specialized presence on the Internet. The guys responsible for Pepe Le Queue read the threads and have been quick to make contact with HM bloggers. Unsurprising or idiosyncratic in your book?
Secondly, are certain fan bases given more serious attention than others? Would they makes change to the steam trains, for example, without worrying a little about reaction from the train lover community? And of course there are the HM fans, an unusually passionate and vocal bunch with a specialized presence on the Internet. The guys responsible for Pepe Le Queue read the threads and have been quick to make contact with HM bloggers. Unsurprising or idiosyncratic in your book?
I work for a large retailer that most people have heard of. We have several departments that are responsbile for keeping track of guest wants, desires, shopping habits, and how they view our company. I would have to assume that Disney has serveral departments that do that same thing.
That being said I would much rather Disney gives me something that I love, rather than something that I would like them to do. I love the Henry Ford saying around this "If I asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse".
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Not really.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I know the company pays attention to things for sure, all I was saying is that I doubt that they design "for" the fans especially on big projects (i.e. Carsland) and in the grand scheme of things the public at large is the target. The HM queue is an enhancement, and insider oriented with the tributes, etc. I'm sure that they want to hear what the fans think, or at least defend it. I have no idea as to what they formally read or how they respond. Imagineers care deeply about what gets built.
Told the story here a few pages back on how I complained about an "open grave" on TSI (1970's) just to see how many complaints it took to change it. Just one. They filled it in! The parks do listen!
HMF
Well-Known Member
Judging by some of the average guest reactions especially considering what is going on with the "Sea Captain" tomb, I think WDI/WED might actually have to make adjustments and I think they have enough common sense to know this just for popularity and safety measures. Thematic violations are one thing, safety problems potentially caused by the water elements are something else..
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