Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

It would be fun to see the rat's eye view in the ride..

 

[lazyboy97o]

It would be fun to see the rat's eye view in the ride..

The "you're being shrunk down to the size of [x]" concept seems to be a little overplayed for my tastes. A Ratatouille based attraction may be where it could be interesting as hopefully the attraction will not be aimed solely at the younger set. I think part of the problem is that the "big" environments tend to lack texture. Overall they feel plastic. I am not sure if it is because of the intended audience being so young or possibly that the unfamiliar nature of the true texture at such a level of detail is so foreign that it becomes uncomfortable.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The "you're being shrunk down to the size of [x]" concept seems to be a little overplayed for my tastes. A Ratatouille based attraction may be where it could be interesting as hopefully the attraction will not be aimed solely at the younger set. I think part of the problem is that the "big" environments tend to lack texture. Overall they feel plastic. I am not sure if it is because of the intended audience being so young or possibly that the unfamiliar nature of the true texture at such a level of detail is so foreign that it becomes uncomfortable.

The object of the game in any show attraction is to differentiate the environment in a way that makes the ride unique from the film. Rat's eye view is the way he sees his world and that's one way to give you an experience you can't get at home. There may be a seminal moment in the film you want to expand into a entire ride. Mr. Toad is about his wild car romp, Dumbo is the moment he discovers he can fly,etc. You can either be the character in the ride, or a third person experiencing the story as they did. It does not have to retell the movie. Ask yourself what part of Rat do I wish I could experience, and do that first. In TDl Pooh, it was bouncing with Tigger. We made that top priority.

The execution of that world is another factor. As you point out, when you supersize things they often need to be built out of materials other than what they are supposed to be and you can end up in a fiberglas reality. As you point out, textures at a huge scale (like woodgrain) can be a challenge to do convincingly. Toontown in a cumulative sense has this effect, but that's the style of the land. So that's a bit of "food for thought" in dark ride planning.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

I love the idea of a Ratatouille-based ride concept. It would certainly be an interesting dark ride or simulator.

I was wondering if you could be profitable integrating a restaurant in DHS based on Gustau's with a ride in the same building or structure, like at the end of the movie. You could ride while waiting to eat after you check in, or have a separate entrance for non-restaurant riders.

It might not work with the sound element, it couldn't probably be as quiet as a Mexico-style situation, but could still be quite interesting.

 

[Esdeebee]

... You can either be the character in the ride, or a third person experiencing the story as they did. It does not have to retell the movie. Ask yourself what part of Rat do I wish I could experience, and do that first. In TDl Pooh, it was bouncing with Tigger. We made that top priority.

The execution of that world is another factor. As you point out, when you supersize things they often need to be built out of materials other than what they are supposed to be and you can end up in a fiberglas reality. As you point out, textures at a huge scale (like woodgrain) can be a challenge to do convincingly. Toontown in a cumulative sense has this effect, but that's the style of the land. So that's a bit of "food for thought" in dark ride planning.

I asked myself this, and couldn't come up with much from that movie. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy the movie, but really, the thing I'd most like to experience from it was the Ratatouille cafe at the end. I'd eat there. Even Gusteau's didn't do that much for me. (I'd rather eat in Rivera, I think!!!:animwink: Next time in LA...) The raft ride...'S ok I guess, but the rest I'd probably pass on.

I think they could come up with a better theme for a coaster, no?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I asked myself this, and couldn't come up with much from that movie. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy the movie, but really, the thing I'd most like to experience from it was the Ratatouille cafe at the end. I'd eat there. Even Gusteau's didn't do that much for me. (I'd rather eat in Rivera, I think!!!:animwink: Next time in LA...) The raft ride...'S ok I guess, but the rest I'd probably pass on.

I think they could come up with a better theme for a coaster, no?

You make a good point. Not every movie has to become a ride, TDL has a "Queen of Hearts Restaurant" (no Alice ride in that park) as it gives you a chance to spend lots of time in "Wonderland". Other stories play better on stage. Sleeping Beauty is told in display windows. Maybe the best expression of Rat story is something other than a dark ride? Since the movie centers on food, then a Restaurant may make the most sense.

Gasteau's doesn't serve Tequila Cocktails with beef jerky as an ingredient either! (Rivera plug)

 

[kcnole]

I think this is sort of an interesting thought experiment if nothing else. Doesn't matter if it's Disney or someone else. I'd love to see something like this in the north. We used to have a mall/amusement park called "Old Chicago" not far from my house, and it was fun in the middle of winter to go on log flumes and coasters with inversions, but the place didn't make it long term. Cool idea though.

There is, its the Mall of America in Minneapolis. I liked it much better before it became all Nickelodeon themed however.

 

[Esdeebee]

There is, its the Mall of America in Minneapolis. I liked it much better before it became all Nickelodeon themed however.

Never been there! Is it "themed" like a park, or is it a "mall" with mostly stores?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Rat for the Studios. Splash seems too wet for that climate.

I read something (it very well may have been somewhere in this thread) about a new log design that would limit how much guests would get wet for a Paris Splash Mountain.

 

[hack2112]

I read something (it very well may have been somewhere in this thread) about a new log design that would limit how much guests would get wet for a Paris Splash Mountain.

I know that Sheikra in Busch Gardens Tampa uses differently shaped cones on the back of its cars to decide how wet the people watching (and sometimes riding) will get. Maybe its something like that.

 

[MarkTwain]

I read something (it very well may have been somewhere in this thread) about a new log design that would limit how much guests would get wet for a Paris Splash Mountain.

I believe the logs in Tokyo actually have some sort of mechanical system where their splash can be adjusted depending on the season, so a winter splash isn't nearly as soaking as a summer splash. I'm sure WDI could come up with some sort of mechanism to greatly reduce the splash for a winter in Paris. :shrug:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I read something (it very well may have been somewhere in this thread) about a new log design that would limit how much guests would get wet for a Paris Splash Mountain.

I think there is, but to me, the Splashless Splash Mountain seems counter to the whole idea. Like when I order a Jack Daniels and Diet Coke. I'm not a big fan of that show so i'm prejudiced.

 

[misterID]

I think there is, but to me, the Splashless Splash Mountain seems counter to the whole idea. Like when I order a Jack Daniels and Diet Coke. I'm not a big fan of that show so i'm prejudiced.

Haha. Nice.

That's interesting you're not a big fan of Splash Mountain, if I'm reading that right. I remember reading once that Splash Mountain took the place of a really big attraction planned for Adventureland. Is that true?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Haha. Nice.

That's interesting you're not a big fan of Splash Mountain, if I'm reading that right. I remember reading once that Splash Mountain took the place of a really big attraction planned for Adventureland. Is that true?

Hmm. I'm trying to think back. I can't recall that it was competing with anything in Adventureland at the time. Indy was in development for years, but maybe not that far back. If anything, it opened the way to do something with the Carousel theater in Tomorrowland (I was on that for a while) as they used the "America Sings" figures in Splash.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think there is, but to me, the Splashless Splash Mountain seems counter to the whole idea. Like when I order a Jack Daniels and Diet Coke. I'm not a big fan of that show so i'm prejudiced.

I get that, but at the same time it is warm in France occasionally. Being able to regulate the splash, much like they do in Florida is something that could work. It would just be that much more regulated than in Florida because the temperature range will be larger.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I get that, but at the same time it is warm in France occasionally. Being able to regulate the splash, much like they do in Florida is something that could work. It would just be that much more regulated than in Florida because the temperature range will be larger.

It is. To me it's the perception more than the reality. When it's freezing the idea of going on a "splash" expectation ride wether it really does or not, seems less attractive than something else. The thing is that you can only market something like that in the summer.

 

[ValentineMouse]

I'm curious, Eddie, what's your criticism with Splash Mountain?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm curious, Eddie, what's your criticism with Splash Mountain?

Little things. It's obviously a very popular and fun ride, just not my favorite.

My two cents on the DL version. Instead of scaling down the queue structures, they are designed at least full scale, no magic. The show seems longer than it is with lots of outdoor dead areas, just banjo music and props between scenes and the rockwork is too high for you to see much of the view. Those dead areas in the show hurt the pacing IMHO, feels like "filler". To me, the elaborate musical AA show is paired with a ride system that in the end is too intense for really young kids that would appreciate the show most, and based on a film the company won't even let them see. (So they are perpetuating a story that can't capitalize on). The TDL version gets it right, pretty awesome as it is it's own "land". They really create a "sense of place" and that's what it needed. They had discussed a more Frontierish themed flume ride earlier for DL, and I would have preferred that. My favorite flume ride is Knott's Log Ride (At Knott's Berry Farm in CA). Perfect theme (technically remedial by WDI standards), length, pacing, thrill intensity, all of it. I've never ridden better. Awesome family flume ride.

 

[ValentineMouse]

That's really interesting. I certainly see your point about the target audience being mismatched to the ride system. As for it being based on a 'banned' film, I don't really mind that too much; to most people, they just think its an original (non-source based) attraction, and that's not a bad thing. (But I see your point - if you're going to do a sourced film, at least make it a film that can benefit from it).

I always interpreted the outdoor scenes as a teaser for the inside attraction. You get the build up to a drop right at the start, but the drop's tiny and instead you weave about the main drop, building the excitement for the finale. The outdoor music and prop pieces start to give you hints you're entering a different world, building the fantasy before the first proper drop into the showbuilding, where the all-singing all-dancing critters come alive. As such, the outdoor section is kind of the preshow.

A Frontierland flume would have been interesting. I heard something like that was considered for Disneyland Paris, tying into the Big Thunder Mountain storyline. Interestingly, my first thought was that it was too generic, but then Big Thunder Mountain is essentially a generic minetrain coaster, what makes it so good is the level at which the theme and setting is pulled off, and I'm sure the same could be done for a Frontierland flume, as long as it was different enough from Thunder.

I remember reading once that Splash Mountain took the place of a really big attraction planned for Adventureland. Is that true?

I think that big Adventureland attraction was the first (multiple ride) version of Indiana Jones. Apparently there was a drawing an Imagineer made of Indiana Jones and Brer Fox standing at the top of Chickapin Hill fighting over a golden Brer Rabbit idol, representing the budget!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That's really interesting. I certainly see your point about the target audience being mismatched to the ride system. As for it being based on a 'banned' film, I don't really mind that too much; to most people, they just think its an original (non-source based) attraction, and that's not a bad thing. (But I see your point - if you're going to do a sourced film, at least make it a film that can benefit from it).

I always interpreted the outdoor scenes as a teaser for the inside attraction. You get the build up to a drop right at the start, but the drop's tiny and instead you weave about the main drop, building the excitement for the finale. The outdoor music and prop pieces start to give you hints you're entering a different world, building the fantasy before the first proper drop into the showbuilding, where the all-singing all-dancing critters come alive. As such, the outdoor section is kind of the preshow.

A Frontierland flume would have been interesting. I heard something like that was considered for Disneyland Paris, tying into the Big Thunder Mountain storyline. Interestingly, my first thought was that it was too generic, but then Big Thunder Mountain is essentially a generic minetrain coaster, what makes it so good is the level at which the theme and setting is pulled off, and I'm sure the same could be done for a Frontierland flume, as long as it was different enough from Thunder.

I think that big Adventureland attraction was the first (multiple ride) version of Indiana Jones. Apparently there was a drawing an Imagineer made of Indiana Jones and Brer Fox standing at the top of Chickapin Hill fighting over a golden Brer Rabbit idol, representing the budget!

I worked on that version of Indy too (worked on three versions), but don't recall Splash beating it out, it's possible, but I'm just too brain damaged to remember!

The thing about Big Thunder and many other rides as you point out, the execution itself is at such a level that differentiates it. BTMRR as a concept is not unique at all. Six Flags had a runaway mine train years earlier, but it was not convincing as BTMRR is.