Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Mansion Butler]

The only thing I could think of that most people associated as Disney only outside of the Dole Whips were the Figaro Fries. Certainly they could be made elsewhere but I've never seen them. Personally I thought they were awful so I don't miss that they're gone, but I know a number who do.

I miss them terribly, but are you saying you've never seen french fries covered in cheese and bacon? Because those are done all over the place. Wendy's, Denny's, IHOP, Sonic and Outback Steakhouse jump immediately to mind, though they're far from it. Most of them tend to include ranch as the dip, as well.

PVH is the only place where I saw them top it with lettuce and tomato, but then they stopped doing that a while ago.

But it was the only place I could get them in the park.

 

[Mansion Butler]

It may even someday get us that Haunted Mansion Holiday and Small World Holiday we've always wanted. :shrug:

I haven't always wanted HMH. We don't cater to locals who need something different, we cater to people who don't come often, if they even come more than once, and it doesn't make much sense for the Mansion to be closed for an extended period twice a year or for anyone who comes late in the year not to be able to experience the actual Haunted Mansion (which, frankly, is a better ride).

I know your point was an increase in APs at WDW, but it still wouldn't change the demographic enough for HMH to make sense here. Besides, it's nice for DL to have something unique.

I do wish there was something we could do specifically for the parties, though. I don't have an idea of what that could be, but I'm also not an Imagineer.

 

[_Scar]

^ I agree.

I'd rather have our HM up with no overlay the time we come rather than Jack and friends invading for the holidays. Now IASW and CBJ are a different story...

 

[WDW1974]

There was a time when michael was very engaged and was into what we were doing. After DLP opened and was a fiscal mess, he and Frank became a bit gun shy of doing visionary things. DCA and the budget parks was a reaction to that. AK was a project that was on the fence fiscally, but to his credit, Michael wanted to do it anyway and made it happen. As you point out, his era of 20% growth per quarter could not be sustained. I remember being told that certain ideas that were highly profitable would not be considered as they didn't meet the extremely high hurdles they had set themselves up for. Making "Truckloads of money" didn't cut it. It had to be a "Supertankers of money" idea. A good problem to have, I guess.

That's the problem with American business these days ... MORE is never enough.

I do think Disney would have taken more chances and kept pushing the creative envelope more if Frank had lived. I think, for instance, his background and savvy would have likely pushed Disney's America through. And likely would have resulted in something other than DCA coming to SoCal.

But sadly we'll never know. :xmas:

 

[kcnole]

I miss them terribly, but are you saying you've never seen french fries covered in cheese and bacon? Because those are done all over the place. Wendy's, Denny's, IHOP, Sonic and Outback Steakhouse jump immediately to mind, though they're far from it. Most of them tend to include ranch as the dip, as well.

PVH is the only place where I saw them top it with lettuce and tomato, but then they stopped doing that a while ago.

I meant the same thing with lettuce and tomato as well. But like I said, it was something that could easily be mimicked on your own.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

I haven't always wanted HMH. We don't cater to locals who need something different, we cater to people who don't come often, if they even come more than once, and it doesn't make much sense for the Mansion to be closed for an extended period twice a year or for anyone who comes late in the year not to be able to experience the actual Haunted Mansion (which, frankly, is a better ride).

I know your point was an increase in APs at WDW, but it still wouldn't change the demographic enough for HMH to make sense here. Besides, it's nice for DL to have something unique.

I do wish there was something we could do specifically for the parties, though. I don't have an idea of what that could be, but I'm also not an Imagineer.

So just because we don't cater to locals we can't get better things? :shrug: To be honest I don't really care for HMH I'm fine with or without it. But, there's other things that are in need of renovation such as Peter Pan and Snow White. Those rides are pretty much just like they were in the 70s. I mean sure, we mostly get tourists from outside the state, country, continent, planet...:lookaroun(stitch), but there are still locals out there. Just because we reach or as you say cater to, a wider demographic of people does not mean Disney can go around leaving attractions stale and old. I for one would love for some new things. Hopefully this is fulfilled with the new FYL Expansion which makes me proud to say that I'm a WDW'er. So long story short, sure we cater to tourists, but we also cater to locals and it's not nice for Disney to just ignore us who actually have annual passes. Whom are paying them for entrance to their parks to see an attraction that's about 30 years dated.

[/RANT]

 

[Eddie Sotto]

So just because we don't cater to locals we can't get better things? :shrug: To be honest I don't really care for HMH I'm fine with or without it. But, there's other things that are in need of renovation such as Peter Pan and Snow White. Those rides are pretty much just like they were in the 70s. I mean sure, we mostly get tourists from outside the state, country, continent, planet...:lookaroun(stitch), but there are still locals out there. Just because we reach or as you say cater to, a wider demographic of people does not mean Disney can go around leaving attractions stale and old. I for one would love for some new things. Hopefully this is fulfilled with the new FYL Expansion which makes me proud to say that I'm a WDW'er. So long story short, sure we cater to tourists, but we also cater to locals and it's not nice for Disney to just ignore us who actually have annual passes. Whom are paying them for entrance to their parks to see an attraction that's about 30 years dated.

[/RANT]

It's funny you say this. When I was a kid, it always puzzled me why Snow White or Peter Pan were not treated at a better production value. Snow White was the biggest movie the studio ever had, but it was treated in the cheapest execution and not rethought. DL F'land of 1983 addressed this to a great degree. The scope of the Mermaid Ride being done today is more of what I imagined as a kid that those stories deserved. It's true that WDW is primarily tourists that forget what they saw 7 years earlier, so the focus is not on upgrades. I do think WDI focusing on digital inpark games like Kim Possible and such are a fun solution for AP's.

 

[Esdeebee]

This is my first post to this forum, but I've thoroughly enjoyed this entire thread...all 152 pages of it!

I've become interested in the idea of cold-weather or enclosed theme parks, and thought that perhaps Mr. Sotto would have some insight into the imagineering process on Disney's America. Also, D23 had an article on the Haunted Mansion which mentioned (almost in passing) that a Haunted Mansion would have been the "weenie" of the proposed St. Louis riverfront theme park, which would have been all enclosed.

Could you post a few thoughts on the imagineering that would go into making a theme park of this sort? Thank you in advance, and thank you for the entertainment (and inspiration, even!) I got out of your posts in this entire thread!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

This is my first post to this forum, but I've thoroughly enjoyed this entire thread...all 152 pages of it!

I've become interested in the idea of cold-weather or enclosed theme parks, and thought that perhaps Mr. Sotto would have some insight into the imagineering process on Disney's America. Also, D23 had an article on the Haunted Mansion which mentioned (almost in passing) that a Haunted Mansion would have been the "weenie" of the proposed St. Louis riverfront theme park, which would have been all enclosed.

Could you post a few thoughts on the imagineering that would go into making a theme park of this sort? Thank you in advance, and thank you for the entertainment (and inspiration, even!) I got out of your posts in this entire thread!

First off, I'm so glad you decided to post here, welcome! 152 pages is quite a feat. To your question, "Disney's America" was not a park I worked on, but as I understand it was not destined to be indoors either. I proposed a "Walt Disney's America" concept for the location now known as DCA, but that was my first week at the company and it never went anywhere. (So much for the 15 story crystal Statue of Liberty!)

There have been so many location based and or resort proposals over the years for different cities. I'm not familiar with the St. Louis one. Sorry, striking out on your questions.

Disney Quest and another more "adult" project I was involved in were to be staged indoors. Not easy to pull off. The challenges with indoor projects is that they tend to be expensive as they cover all the walkways that end up being climate controlled, so each square foot carries a value and that takes away form what you have to do the attractions. So it gets minimized. Circulation either up and down or around your attractions becomes an issue and orienting the guest to that can be challenging. The new "Ferrari World" Attraction in the Middle East is under a mega roof and that should be interesting. I'm prejudiced against indoor projects only that acoustically they can tend to be harsh. I was just in a new indoor mall this weekend that was an acoustic nightmare and I could not wait to get out. TDL's Main Street-ish "World Bazaar" is under a glass roof and it compromises it's feel to a degree. there is this cavernous reverb and the area music echoes through it. So when we did DLP MSUSA (can get very cold and wet) we did East and West "Arcades" which allows you to be warm and cozy in gaslit passages behind each block of shops, while still retaining the open shared experience that is Main Street as in the other parks. I think it does both well. Caesar's Palace Forum Shops in Las Vegas do a pretty nice job of creating an indoor/outdoor feel and so it can be done. You do have light control and the ability to do sets that don't have to endure the weather, which can be a big plus depending on the theme.

I hope this begins to answer your questions about designing for indoor use.

 

[wdwmagic]

So when we did DLP MSUSA (can get very cold and wet) we did East and West "Arcades" which allows you to be warm and cozy in gaslit passages behind each block of shops, while still retaining the open shared experience that is Main Street as in the other parks.

Not only are those beautiful to look at with all the detail, but they are incredibly useful for bypassing MSUSA during busy periods, like parades and fireworks. I would LOVE to see something like that implemented at WDW!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Not only are those beautiful to look at with all the detail, but they are incredibly useful for bypassing MSUSA during busy periods, like parades and fireworks. I would LOVE to see something like that implemented at WDW!

Me too. Not sure how it would fit, etc. It would be an expensive luxury but well worth the effort. It has always bugged me that guests are shuttled through the backstage areas past dumpsters and so forth during those times. Breaks the "spell" of being onstage for sure. Imagine during the best part of a movie, if the camera swung around to the crew and this beat up soundstage, then back to the action.

 

[wdwmagic]

Me too. Not sure how it would fit, etc. It would be an expensive luxury but well worth the effort. It has always bugged me that guests are shuttled through the backstage areas past dumpsters and so forth during those times. Breaks the "spell" of being onstage for sure. Imagine during the best part of a movie, if the camera swung around to the crew and this beat up soundstage, then back to the action.

I certainly agree on the onstage/backstage issue. The bottleneck of MSUSA at WDW is also starting to become a real problem. I once counted over 100 CMs purely dedicated to traffic control prior to Wishes. If the capacity of MK is to increase, which it very well may do with the new Fantasyland, they are going to have to start looking at the problems of getting in and out. The arcades would be the perfect solution.

 

[Lee]

If the capacity of MK is to increase, which it very well may do with the new Fantasyland, they are going to have to start looking at the problems of getting in and out. The arcades would be the perfect solution.

Nah...they'll never go for it. Might interfere with some management parking.

 

[RSoxNo1]

What do you mean by the arcades?

Do you think some modifications to space may be made with the Crystal Palace refurbishment being done in early 2010?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

What do you mean by the arcades?

Do you think some modifications to space may be made with the Crystal Palace refurbishment being done in early 2010?

Here's video of the liberty arcade so you see what we did.

http://www.dlrpmagic.com/video/attractions/liberty-arcade/

 

[_Scar]

Here's video of the liberty arcade so you see what we did.

http://www.dlrpmagic.com/video/attractions/liberty-arcade/

That's beautiful!

Is DLP the only park to use arcades?

 

[HMF]

What do you mean by the arcades?

Do you think some modifications to space may be made with the Crystal Palace refurbishment being done in early 2010?

Not to mention retail space.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That's beautiful!

Is DLP the only park to use arcades?

Yes. As far as I know. There is also the Discovery Arcade which has different content (Jules Verne, inventors) on the opposite side of the street.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Branding vs. Blanding

Interesting Kevin Yee article on branding. We start at the feeling or the "wow" a brand is supposed to impart and work backwards into the experience so it is assured of delivering that.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky120809a.htm

 

[BigThunderMatt]

TDL's Main Street-ish "World Bazaar" is under a glass roof and it compromises it's feel to a degree. there is this cavernous reverb and the area music echoes through it.

Just curious since I've gathered you had a lot of insight in Tokyo, what was the reasoning behind this. Tokyo's climate is much milder than Paris and while they can get snow it's very rare. In fact, the whole glass conservatory look (in my mind at least) would have worked much better at DLP. At Tokyo I just stared at it and wondered why it was even needed.