Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Lee]

By the time they came out to ride the DL version it had broken down so many times that it was to be closed for good, so they gave up and realized that maybe it was not such a good attraction to copy. So yes, that was an example of having to do something you don't believe in.

Hey....I liked Rocket Rods....

 

[DougK]

Eddie,

This has been just about my favorite thread ever but even so I have not read all 1200+ posts so if this has already been addressed please forgive me. I have a somewhat personal question for you:

Do you ever harbor any desire to return to Disney as an Imagineer? Would you be interested? Would they be interested?

Just curious!

Thanks.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey....I liked Rocket Rods....

Sure. It was fun and did wonders for the kinetics of the land. But was it an E? or a D? That was the issue. Especially if it's not on an elevated beamway. My beef was that IMHO it wasn't a marketable "E" like Space Mountain with staying power. Looking back I'm not so sure, but it was creatively risky. Your job is to know what you're pitching and how powerful the show will be. The expectation from TDL was that they get an "E" level of experience from that ride system. If in the end, we don't deliver that, then we've underdelivered and wasted millions. Right or wrong, it felt like it was gonna be as thrilling as a normal car doing donuts in a parking lot. (I wanted to do this rocket powered motorcycle ride instead.) I just dug in against doing it and paid a high price politically. We did Pooh's Hunny Hunt instead, a true E, and that ride system and show overdelivers. Still has a 3 hour line. So, in the end TDL was happy and we did our job. Maybe Lassiter's "Cars" attraction (based on same ride system) will have tons of story and show to be a Super E! That is a better use of that system.

 

[Lee]

Sure. It was fun and did wonders for the kinetics of the land. But was it an E? or a D? That was the issue. Especially if it's not on an elevated beamway. My beef was that IMHO it wasn't a marketable "E" like Space Mountain with staying power. Looking back I'm not so sure, but it was creatively risky.

I always thought that with a new track, banked curves, some more show scenes...Rods would have been great. Certainly an E.
TDL's Pooh.....yeah....Super E.
I hope they do as well with that tech at Hong Kong's Mystic Manor.

 

[The Conundrum]

I always thought that with a new track, banked curves, some more show scenes...Rods would have been great. Certainly an E.
TDL's Pooh.....yeah....Super E.
I hope they do as well with that tech at Hong Kong's Mystic Manor.

The whole victorian rocket sleds idea was kinda lame. I vividly remember opening up Disney Magazine so excited to see the plans for the upcoming Tomorrowland...and being totally disappointed at the direction they were going in. That old wound still hasn't healed.

It would have probably been a better ride with banked curvs and show scenes though but either way im kinda glad its gone and I hope the next peoplemover does not suffer the same fate.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie,

This has been just about my favorite thread ever but even so I have not read all 1200+ posts so if this has already been addressed please forgive me. I have a somewhat personal question for you:

Do you ever harbor any desire to return to Disney as an Imagineer? Would you be interested? Would they be interested?

Just curious!

Thanks.

Page 6 Post #80. No worries

To add to that post, I never rule anything out, only to say that great projects attract great people so I look for innovative projects that make sense that allow for growth with intelligent partners. My little studio does this and we do three of four things a year. None are theme parks right now. But they are wilder than anything I've ever done.

So if "pushing the envelope" resides at Disney, I'm interested, if it's at the Post Office I'm there too! I'm an equal opportunity Imagineer!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I always thought that with a new track, banked curves, some more show scenes...Rods would have been great.

i think so. but heres where we came out.

We explored banked turns and yes, like "Test track" it could have been pretty fun. Remember, the faster the ride goes means you needs lots more track and that means you need lots of land or elevated track and of course the faster you go, the shorter the ride becomes (and they want to market rides with a minimum of 5 minutes if they can) unless you add more track which means you need more land and more cash! So in the end with all those endless rails and freeways, you eat up the budget and have less for show! Look how huge "Carsland" is gonna be. Why because they need a big raceway to do the speed.

 

[DougK]

Page 6 Post #80. No worries

To add to that post, I never rule anything out, only to say that great projects attract great people so I look for innovative projects that make sense that allow for growth with intelligent partners. My little studio does this and we do three of four things a year. None are theme parks right now. But they are wilder than anything I've ever done.

So if "pushing the envelope" resides at Disney, I'm interested, if it's at the Post Office I'm there too! I'm an equal opportunity Imagineer!

Wow, you've got all the post numbers memorized! :lol:

I wish you well at what you are doing but I also hope Disney becomes the place to "push the envelope" again. Any company, no matter what they do or manufacture or sell, is only as good as it's employees. I am sure there is lots of talent left at Disney but I'd like to see them add some more visionaries like you. While I'm at it you can have an unlimited budget also!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Mr. Sotto

TDL's Pooh seems universally praised. Great job. How come the trackless ride system has not been cloned many times over? Is it due to cost or some exclusivity agreement.

Cost and the right application. I was trying to make it the "next level" dark rides, but the Kuka robotic arm technology is hotter right now.. We even proposed a HM with that system! It looks like HKDL will do it according to the press release.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Wow, you've got all the post numbers memorized! :lol:

I wish you well at what you are doing but I also hope Disney becomes the place to "push the envelope" again. Any company, no matter what they do or manufacture or sell, is only as good as it's employees. I am sure there is lots of talent left at Disney but I'd like to see them add some more visionaries like you. While I'm at it you can have an unlimited budget also!

Thanks for the overly kind words. BTW- Who needs Disney? Just send me the "unlimited budget" you have in a brown paper bag addressed to "Sotto Studios" finance dept. and we'll go from there

 

[RSoxNo1]

I didn't mean to single Tony out, but it was a funny story. I've had to leave a "red herring" in there so they will think they cut something, yes. Like a wish list. I don't know if it is still played, but the game of padding the scope/budget because you expect to have it cut (no matter how prudent you were up front) existed when I was there. Tony gave me a great piece of advice once about some show element that I really wanted and he noticed it was not "attached" or integrated with anything (i.e. a wishing well). He said that it needed to be part of something else because it was too isolated and easy to "pluck out". He was soooo right! Sometimes late in the game (even construction) they can make a "clean cut", meaning it does not affect anything else and it just goes. So today there is no Streetcar Stop Canopy in DLP MSUSA as it lived alone in Town Square! CUT! cleanly and painlessly. It's too costly and messy to cut things that are part of a bigger element, meaning there is no savings so they look elsewhere.

I made the mistake of being "real" up front and only asking for what we needed, only to lose things as a part of a learned process of negotiation as they expected me to be padding stuff. I think that the idea that they would let you run free with ideas and let you go with it pretty far, then tell you the budget after and rip apart the Ferrari to hit the cost of a Fusion. Tell me it's a Fusion and I'll start there and try for the Ferrari! Extremely costly both emotionally and fiscally. If we could just ask for what we need and not play that "pad and cut" game things would be less expensive overall.Maybe it's different now, after all ten years is a long time. It's about trust between the teams. In my own business we try and keep it simple and make the costs known up front (Rivera was that way), there is less "value engineering" late in the game, and we do things for way less.

As to getting into WDI, I worked at other theme companies doing design so they could picture me as an Imagineer (rejected twice! then hired away). Tony hired me from seeing Vernian images from another project. In business you may do business plans or feasibilities for Universal or some company first perhaps. This site has the best advice IMHO.

www.themedattraction.com

Thanks for the answer - as several have said previously, your insight and experience is fascinating.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Thanks for the overly kind words. BTW- Who needs Disney? Just send me the "unlimited budget" you have in a brown paper bag addressed to "Sotto Studios" finance dept. and we'll go from there

Sure thing...it will be out in the mail tomorrow! :lol:

Thanks for sharing the pictures and the great stories from the event. Sounds like a great gathering...not too much seriousness, not too much formality...and enough beer!

 

[WDW1974]

Oh my Yes! Speaking of such, good to hear from the ol' WDW74!

Hey, I'm just a spirit that appears from the cyber-fog from time to time ... and I really feel I missed a lot in your thread when I was at WDW for a week and a half.

It's funny, the last thing that came to my mind at old home week was shoptalk. Everyone asks about the kids, etc. It was hard enough to put names with faces after ten years. It was such a special moment of peace for the dysfunctional WDI family, that we just kinda pounded the beer and cheered on Marty who outlasted us all. I hung out in that old "Peoplemover" with friends. (The craftsmanship back then was really bad, like an old Dodge.) I wish you all could have been there. So many faces and legends all on one patio. Alice Davis, costumer and wife of Marc Davis was there. She told me that the "gilted bride" story in the HM was something Walt didn't want. Interesting. Another Beer.

Alice is a wonderful and classy woman. She really deserves her own window on Main Street and it would be nice to see her get it!

As to your story, wonder what old Walt would have thought about the new bride with the bloody ax ... course I wonder what he would have thought about millions of things!

The next day after the window thing. I headed down to the Uva Bar (Downtown Disney) to meet Bob Gurr. Over a Manhattan and a Martini we got to know each other a bit and compared notes. WOW! What a guy. We go back 30 years with the same folks! We both had mutual clients like Steve Wynn and basically knew everyone in the biz except each other. What a talent. That whole day in the park was overwhelming but Gurr was the highlight.

You never met Bob?!?! That's interesting ... they should have used him when designing the new monorails for DL ... if so, they likely wouldn't be the disaster they turned out to be. ... Of course, I am always thinking that Disney doesn't lean on its Legends nearly enough when they are retired. Bob's insight and common sense would have saved millions on the 'rails and likely delivered a product that would have lasted a lot longer than these will.

 

[WDW1974]

I always thought that with a new track, banked curves, some more show scenes...Rods would have been great. Certainly an E.
TDL's Pooh.....yeah....Super E.
I hope they do as well with that tech at Hong Kong's Mystic Manor.

I dunno ... I thought Rods was fated for disaster because it was forced onto a track that was never made for any kind of high-speed thrill-ride. It seemed destined for trouble ... how much money got spent for what was marketed as an 'E' experience that closed for good within two years of opening? They would have been better to keep the PeopleMover open.

Of course, I also still detest Test Track and consider it the most overrated attraction in WDW history (yeah, I subjected myself to it again last week)

And I think MM is going to be mindblowingly good ... both because of the technology but also the story and theming. It will be the whole package.

 

[imagineer boy]

I dunno ... I thought Rods was fated for disaster because it was forced onto a track that was never made for any kind of high-speed thrill-ride. It seemed destined for trouble ... how much money got spent for what was marketed as an 'E' experience that closed for good within two years of opening? They would have been better to keep the PeopleMover open.

I honestly don't understand how that got greenlit. You'd think the engineers would've spoken up a bit more and convinced the imagineers and execs that it wouldn't work because of the speed and weak tracks.

And I think MM is going to be mindblowingly good ... both because of the technology but also the story and theming. It will be the whole package.

It does indeed look promising, however I'm a little worried about the "mischievous monkey" plot line which looks a little cheesy. Still, it does look promising.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I honestly don't understand how that got greenlit. You'd think the engineers would've spoken up a bit more and convinced the imagineers and execs that it wouldn't work because of the speed and weak tracks.

The funny story I heard at the time was that the tires were wearing out really fast and the rubber became little granules as it rubbed off. I guess without banking turns, the forces from the car transfers to the tires and rubs off the rubber like an eraser. 14 hours a day of that in the same spot is significant. Anyway, I was told that the black rubber dust was blowing off the tracks and ending up on the food below at Coke Terrace!

"Would you like tires with that?"

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I dunno ... I thought Rods was fated for disaster because it was forced onto a track that was never made for any kind of high-speed thrill-ride. It seemed destined for trouble

Agree. It was a very noble effort to use what was there and make something out of the old track, but sometimes the old stuff you can't see comes back to haunt you. The limited potential of the existing track plan drove the show and that makes it tough too. Kind of like being in a big slot car set with not enough of the right track.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Ozwald the Rabbit

I was at the park for that Marty event and decided to buy an "Ozwald- the lucky Rabbit" T Shirt over on Main Street. So then I walked over to the 6 screen MS Cinema to watch the Mickey cartoons and something occurred to me.

Would it not be cool to run "Ozwald the Rabbit" Cartoons (on 3 screens) in the Cinema across from the Mickey Mouse ones (the remaining 3 screens)? No one has ever even seen those cartoons before and then you could look straight across the room and see how Mickey evolved from that. Maybe there could be a clip that explains how Walt was ripped off and how mickey was a reaction to that. But it would be great IMHO to see Ozwald and Mickey sharing the Marquee. Call me a geek, but I'd dig seeing the 27 different Ozwalds that are restored and who knows? They may sell some shirts!

Here's one now..very early Mickey..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9LmDpMO2k0

 

[Horizonsfan]

I was at the park for that Marty event and decided to buy an "Ozwald- the lucky Rabbit" T Shirt over on Main Street. So then I walked over to the 6 screen MS Cinema to watch the Mickey cartoons and something occurred to me.

Would it not be cool to run "Ozwald the Rabbit" Cartoons (on 3 screens) in the Cinema across from the Mickey Mouse ones (the remaining 3 screens)? No one has ever even seen those cartoons before and then you could look straight across the room and see how Mickey evolved from that. Maybe there could be a clip that explains how Walt was ripped off and how mickey was a reaction to that. But it would be great IMHO to see Ozwald and Mickey sharing the Marquee. Call me a geek, but I'd dig seeing the 27 different Ozwalds that are restored and who knows? They may sell some shirts!

Here's one now..very early Mickey..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9LmDpMO2k0

That would be very cool, and I'm sure the more fan-heavy DL would eat it up. It would be great if WDW could have a MS Cinema at all.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I was at the park for that Marty event and decided to buy an "Ozwald- the lucky Rabbit" T Shirt over on Main Street. So then I walked over to the 6 screen MS Cinema to watch the Mickey cartoons and something occurred to me.

Would it not be cool to run "Ozwald the Rabbit" Cartoons (on 3 screens) in the Cinema across from the Mickey Mouse ones (the remaining 3 screens)? No one has ever even seen those cartoons before and then you could look straight across the room and see how Mickey evolved from that. Maybe there could be a clip that explains how Walt was ripped off and how mickey was a reaction to that. But it would be great IMHO to see Ozwald and Mickey sharing the Marquee. Call me a geek, but I'd dig seeing the 27 different Ozwalds that are restored and who knows? They may sell some shirts!

Here's one now..very early Mickey..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9LmDpMO2k0

I'm guessing Disney finally owns Oswald again?

It would work quite nicely...A nice nod to the past. And for the record, in the old Mickey Mouse Revue in the MK, the preshow featured the clip about Walt loosing Oswald and creating Mickey.