Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

Wow! SM only gets 19% of guests!

At the time a decade ago it may have been as high as 21%. Still it was surprising. Remember how many guests are not tall enough, then are too scared to try it. I guess it adds up.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just wanted to say thank you Eddie for all the wonderful stories and inspiration you have given in your posts, it's been an incredible read and I look forward to more. You have truly taken creativity to a new level.

You are all more than welcome, and my posts are just a small fraction of the great discourse sparked by all of the creativity exhibited by all of you on this thread. If there are readers that are lurking out there, please post and give us the benefit of your thoughts too.

I feel that I was given a privilege denied to many by having a shot at doing what I always wanted to do. So you want to share that experience as you remember what is was like to crave it and have it out of reach. There were lots of up and downs in doing that job and it's emotional because you are a fan and a designer at once. It's not always as fun or exciting as people make it out to be as there is lots of stress. The idea is .001 percent of it. You are playing with someone else's legacy and only "got the reins of the Pumpkin Coach" because Walt laid that groundwork. So it's easy to be justifiably critical of WDI and the lack of this or that (myself included), but I thought being out here for a while to discuss what it's like to actually try and get this stuff done can lend a bit of perspective as to how and why things happen. I hope that has been of value.

The other thing is that you don't have to work at WDI to be an "Imagineer".

I see myself as one ten years later. I like knowing that "doing the impossible is fun". You can actually make a bigger difference using that positive spirit in your daily life. Imagination working with Engineering means ideas and execution working as one. It works. If you can bring together the best around a problem (or doing the research), "doing the impossible" becomes easier and lots of fun. Being motivated by the result of giving others pleasure and an escape from their daily life can be applied in many ways. Does "Progress City" live for a "Peoplemover" or a bunch of gadgets? No. it's a dream of something better. It's alive in all of us right now. We are the something better already! We're the people movers in that we can spread our excitement about "what can be", demonstrating that through our determination and hard work, then people will follow that example and join in. You can imagineer your own Dry Cleaners, Ice Cream Shop, or even a Dentist Office! Make life funner and better, we all can. It works that simply. It did for Walt. We believed he could create a a feature length cartoon, and did. Then a theme park, and did. Why not a City? Because he was doing it regardless and only asked us to come along.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Whenever somone suggests that Future World needs exhibits that reflect a political viewoint and opinion, I plan to add my opinion. That is what forums are all about.

In my blog post I did not intend to suggest that any EPCOT pavilion promote a specific political viewpoint, I was merely pointing out that the success of that particular film (again, the highest-grossing documentary ever) illustrates how the subject of the environment and global warming has come to the fore of public awareness.

I would expect any exploration of the issue within EPCOT to involve several theories for causes of and solutions for our current situation, all based on the best science available. The more complicated the problem, the less likely there is to be a black and white solution. And, as Mr. Sotto said, any theory - no matter how well founded - should be presented as such. EPCOT should be based on the hard and indisputable facts as much as possible, to best avoid the politization of science that seems to recur periodically throughout history (after all, Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin - all derided at one point or another).

As for Mission:Space, which many have mentioned, there's no doubt it's a thrilling ride and will spark the imaginations of a certain age range. But it's hardly a pavilion in the EPCOT tradition; after all, it provides a quick thrill and empties into an hall of undecorated drywall and a gift shop. It's as if The Living Seas had ended after the hydrolators. Mission:Space is about 10% of a wonderful Space-themed pavilion.

For those of you who enjoyed my ramblings on the blog, I'm really glad you found it interesting. I appreciate the link.

Michael

PS. Holy smokes, Eddie Sotto. That's wild. Your work is fantastic, man. Well done.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Only 19% of guests visit SM? I assume that's Space and not Splash.

Do you have numbers for some of the other major attractions?

 

[unkadug]

Only 19% of guests visit SM? I assume that's Space and not Splash.

Do you have numbers for some of the other major attractions?

from http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=3506831&postcount=75

97% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

:lol:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Only 19% of guests visit SM? I assume that's Space and not Splash.

Do you have numbers for some of the other major attractions?

No, just Space Mtn. This all came out in the context of a conversation about the future health of EPCOT about 15 years ago. The numbers came from reports shown to me, not discussed over a beer. But there is a conventional wisdom that the numbers bear out. Thrill rides are self editing. Just the sight of a tall coaster eliminates the timid or draws the teens. No, I trust the intentions of those who showed me, so I don't have any reason to think the data was faked.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

In my blog post I did not intend to suggest that any EPCOT pavilion promote a specific political viewpoint, I was merely pointing out that the success of that particular film (again, the highest-grossing documentary ever) illustrates how the subject of the environment and global warming has come to the fore of public awareness.

I would expect any exploration of the issue within EPCOT to involve several theories for causes of and solutions for our current situation, all based on the best science available. The more complicated the problem, the less likely there is to be a black and white solution. And, as Mr. Sotto said, any theory - no matter how well founded - should be presented as such. EPCOT should be based on the hard and indisputable facts as much as possible, to best avoid the politization of science that seems to recur periodically throughout history (after all, Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin - all derided at one point or another).

Well said. Thank you.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

At the time a decade ago it may have been as high as 21%. Still it was surprising. Remember how many guests are not tall enough, then are too scared to try it. I guess it adds up.

And those who get in line just as it breaks down...:lol:

In my blog post I did not intend to suggest that any EPCOT pavilion promote a specific political viewpoint, I was merely pointing out that the success of that particular film (again, the highest-grossing documentary ever) illustrates how the subject of the environment and global warming has come to the fore of public awareness.

I would expect any exploration of the issue within EPCOT to involve several theories for causes of and solutions for our current situation, all based on the best science available. The more complicated the problem, the less likely there is to be a black and white solution. And, as Mr. Sotto said, any theory - no matter how well founded - should be presented as such. EPCOT should be based on the hard and indisputable facts as much as possible, to best avoid the politization of science that seems to recur periodically throughout history (after all, Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin - all derided at one point or another).

As for Mission:Space, which many have mentioned, there's no doubt it's a thrilling ride and will spark the imaginations of a certain age range. But it's hardly a pavilion in the EPCOT tradition; after all, it provides a quick thrill and empties into an hall of undecorated drywall and a gift shop. It's as if The Living Seas had ended after the hydrolators. Mission:Space is about 10% of a wonderful Space-themed pavilion.

For those of you who enjoyed my ramblings on the blog, I'm really glad you found it interesting. I appreciate the link.

Michael

PS. Holy smokes, Eddie Sotto. That's wild. Your work is fantastic, man. Well done.

Wow! Well said!:wave:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

What I loved so much about the 1967 Tomorrowland was that it did not preach to me what the "problems" were, instead I just got to ride the "solutions"! The big idea to solve urban planning problems was to make it fun? Are they kidding? No. Ride the "Peoplemover". Yeah baby yeah. Ride a Monorail to work?. Sure! there was even the PC model in the COP. It was a "we did this, what do you think? fun huh?" rather than a "we all need to do this" approach that we hear on the news so much. Optimism tied to beta test demo equals AWESOME.

EPCOT IMHO could be a treasure chest of provacative "solutions" (Innoventions does that) so powerful that we are compelled to adopt them into our communities. (I love this site for fun innoventive ideas http://springwise.com/eco_sustainability) Instead of telling the negatives or where we've been, rather, appeal to the better nature of the guest by showing the positive results they experience and believe because EPCOT is already making a difference and just wants to show off what it's doing.

Let's discuss putting the edge of E "experimental" and the uniqueness of P "prototype" back into the C.O.T.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

What I loved so much about the 1967 Tomorrowland was that it did not preach to me what the problems were, instead I just got to ride the solutions! It was a "we are doing this" rather than "you should do that" approach. EPCOT IMHO could be a treasure chest of "solutions" (Innoventions does that) so powerful that we are compelled to adopt them into our communities. Instead of telling the negatives, rather, appeal to the better nature of the guest by showing the positive results that can see and believe because EPCOT is already making a difference.

Let's discuss putting the edge of "experimental" and the uniqueness of "prototype" back into the C.O.T.

YES! Exactly. Besides Living with the Land (almost typed Listen to...) and it's aquacell, there is nothing "new" persay in EPCOT.:shrug:

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Well said. Thank you.

It's my pleasure. Thanks for your years of great work.

How crazy is the internet - wow. It's funny, because when I started my blog I didn't get the first URL I requested - it already belonged to your studio. Can't say I can complain about that one.

Your restaurant looks fantastic - I'm making my first trip to California in September for the D23 shindig and I'll have to come in for dinner one night.

 

[jt04]

What I loved so much about the 1967 Tomorrowland was that it did not preach to me what the "problems" were, instead I just got to ride the "solutions"! The big idea to solve urban planning problems was to make it fun? Are they kidding? No. Ride the "Peoplemover". Yeah baby yeah. Ride a Monorail to work?. Sure! there was even the PC model in the COP. It was a "we did this, what do you think? fun huh?" rather than a "we all need to do this" approach that we hear on the news so much. Optimism tied to beta test demo equals AWESOME.

EPCOT IMHO could be a treasure chest of provacative "solutions" (Innoventions does that) so powerful that we are compelled to adopt them into our communities. (I love this site for fun innoventive ideas http://springwise.com/eco_sustainability) Instead of telling the negatives or where we've been, rather, appeal to the better nature of the guest by showing the positive results they experience and believe because EPCOT is already making a difference and just wants to show off what it's doing.

Let's discuss putting the edge of E "experimental" and the uniqueness of P "prototype" back into the C.O.T.

Couldn't agree more. FW especially should be a dynamic and optimistic demonstration of possibilities. An environment where leading tech firms are kicking in the doors to showcase their vision to the masses. I would think Disney would be better off seeking a multitude of sponsors in every pavilion. Perhaps that is not possible but it is an interesting possibility.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Wow! Well said!:wave:

Thanks!

What I loved so much about the 1967 Tomorrowland was that it did not preach to me what the problems were, instead I just got to ride the solutions! The big idea to solve urban planning problems was to make it fun? Are they kidding? No. Ride the "Peoplemover". Yeah baby yeah. Ride a Monorail to work? Sure. It was a "we did this, what do you think? fun huh?" rather than a "we all need to do this" approach that we hear on the news so much. EPCOT IMHO could be a treasure chest of exciting "solutions" (Innoventions does that) so powerful that we are compelled to adopt them into our communities. (I love this site for fun innoventive ideas http://springwise.com/eco_sustainability) Instead of telling the negatives or where we've been, rather, appeal to the better nature of the guest by showing the positive results that can see and believe because EPCOT is already making a difference and wants to show off what it's doing.

That's an excellent point and one that I don't think is made often enough. I wish I had incorporated it more in the piece I wrote, in fact. I do think that EPCOT should focus on exposing guests to technologies, ideas, or lifestyles that could help create a future free of current problems; it's far more interesting than dwelling on the problems themselves.

Of course, this is coming from someone whose favorite MK attraction has almost always been the WEDway.

Horizons was like that, too - we didn't hear about food shortages or energy problems, but the lifestyles they presented seemed to be free of those issues. That's why I like The Land as well; they're actually *doing* something to solve a problem, and showing how it can be achieved.

To me the exciting potential of EPCOT is the effect it had on me as a kid - to fill my head with ideas of what things could one day be like, and to introduce me to some of the ways we could make that future happen. Another element should be to provide guests with a medium-term view of what they could do in their everyday lives to make the baby steps towards the grand view of the future that Disney has traditionally presented.

The problem with EPCOT now is that it doesn't seem to have that "Prologue and the Promise" long-view except for SSE and the Land.

The genius of Tomorrowland '67 and especially Phase I of Walt Disney World was that it showed that cities and governments were wrong when they said certain things couldn't be done - Disney just went ahead and did them. These advances weren't easy, but they were doable. I'd like to see that spirit again.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The genius of Tomorrowland '67 and especially Phase I of Walt Disney World was that it showed that cities and governments were wrong when they said certain things couldn't be done - Disney just went ahead and did them. These advances weren't easy, but they were doable. I'd like to see that spirit again.

Absolutely. And Walt just did it. As was said early on, the "future" is something that the whole corporation has to decide to lead and own, because a theme park with solar powered window dressing can't get there. It almost has to have a "loss leader" level of effort, maybe losing a few big sponsor companies to get the "two guys in a garage"'s idea to be shown, etc to make the place the "living blueprint" it set out to be. Super hard on any level. But the unseen riches for the place that nails it all (and gets a piece of the rollout to the rest of the world) are out there. Imagine if the public internet had been first introduced in 1975 at Progress City, and in turn patented by Bell Labs/EPCOT? "Cha-ching."


One of my favorite quotes from COP was "Progress takes alot of people wanting it and willing to work for it". For corporations to "want" it, progress to them has to be worth it. And I guess "willing to work for it" could mean innovation itself, or Joe Public earning enough money to buy that next GE something.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

As was said early on, the "future" is something that the whole corporation has to decide to lead and own, because a theme park with solar powered window dressing can't get there. It almost has to have a "loss leader" level of effort, maybe losing a few big sponsor companies to get the "two guys in a garage"'s idea to be shown, etc to make the place the "living blueprint" it set out to be. Super hard on any level. But the unseen riches for the place that nails it all (and gets a piece of the rollout to the rest of the world) are out there.

Good point. I guess that's why we need Walt. Can you imagine what only ten more years would have brought us? I guess that's the benefit of an individual with a singular vision and unquestioned power over the company. The stockholders were never going to give Walt the boot for going out on a limb - probably because whenever he went out on a limb it paid off in spades.

Not to go too tangential, but the Phase I level of innovation will never be seen again if we stick to the Eisner-era concept of every square foot having to pay its own way, with a 20% annual increase in revenue. You need those loss leaders, as you say, to really push the limits of what's possible.

 

[jt04]

Absolutely. And Walt just did it. As was said early on, the "future" is something that the whole corporation has to decide to lead and own, because a theme park with solar powered window dressing can't get there. It almost has to have a "loss leader" level of effort, maybe losing a few big sponsor companies to get the "two guys in a garage"'s idea to be shown, etc to make the place the "living blueprint" it set out to be. Super hard on any level. But the unseen riches for the place that nails it all (and gets a piece of the rollout to the rest of the world) are out there. Imagine if the public internet had been first introduced in 1975 at Progress City, and in turn patented by Bell Labs/EPCOT? "Cha-ching."


One of my favorite quotes from COP was "Progress takes alot of people wanting it and willing to work for it". For corporations to "want" it, progress to them has to be worth it. And I guess "willing to work for it" could mean innovation itself, or Joe Public earning enough money to buy that next GE something.

Whoever cmes up with a device/system that can power a home without interruption or the need for grid power, is sustainable and at a reasonable cost will become rich beyond imagination. That is what this "Joe Public" wants.

And what I find interesting is that with all the technology out there someone hasn't had that eureka moment and made it happen.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Whoever cmes up with a device/system that can power a home without interruption or the need for grid power, is sustainable and at a reasonable cost will become rich beyond imagination. That is what this "Joe Public" wants.

And what I find interesting is that with all the technology out there someone hasn't had that eureka moment and made it happen.

It's been done. It's just in the wrong park. I give you the Swiss Family Tree House!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Not to go too tangential, but the Phase I level of innovation will never be seen again if we stick to the Eisner-era concept of every square foot having to pay its own way, with a 20% annual increase in revenue. You need those loss leaders, as you say, to really push the limits of what's possible.

I do think Bob Iger is the most technologically saavy ("gets it") guy in that role since Walt himself. He's a heatseeker. Eisner did not see technology as Bob does. If anyone could see the merits of "owning" the mindshare of "future" as their legacy it is Bob. Add Steve Jobs to that equation and they almost HAVE to do it. It would be a gutsy thing to do, but Iger could pull it off.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

I do think Bob Iger is the most technologically saavy ("gets it") guy in that role since Walt himself. He's a heatseeker. Eisner did not sense technology like Bob. If anyone could see the merits of "owning" the mindshare of "future" as their legacy it is Bob. Add Steve Jobs to that equation and they almost HAVE to do it. It would be a gutsy thing to do, but Iger could pull it off.

Hearing you say that encourages me a lot - I had suspected this, but had no real basis for the feeling. Iger, in the way he talks and a few initiatives of his chairmanship, has given me that technocrat vibe that I have often hoped boded well for the future.

With him not only assenting to progressive initiatives at WDI but actually pushing for them, and Jobs's love of technology and ability to market it, we could really be past the days of EPCOT Daredevil Circus Spectacular. Hopefully this will also include a greater voice for those with a knowledge of Disney's past and the importance of some creative traditions. Just today I was reading Tony Baxter's story about Eisner wanting to put a Daryl Hannah animatronic waving to guests at the end of Splash Mountain - "getting it" is a very important thing.

 

[jt04]

It's been done. It's just in the wrong park. I give you the Swiss Family Tree House!

Nice! :lol:

Umm, you have no idea how many people you have given heartburn to with your praise of Iger. Do you mind if I quote you? It will save me the trouble of writing many lengthy posts and I only have a distant impression of the man but I believe he is absolutely the right person for the job. Thanks for the great insights!