Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Missing20K]

What they say happens to be true, Walt was about changing things that didn't work. But what are the motives for change? A better show or more revenue? Was it an improvement or a desecration? The eternal debate. That's the hard part as an Imagineer. If the mandate was to keep it pristine and not do anything it would be easy, but it's not. The Walt mandate is to run the gauntlet of change by keeping the park conceptually fresh while never betraying the core ideals of why it worked in the first place. So the drill is that you need to really understand exactly why people liked something before you "improve" it. It can be done, and as you point out, sometimes better than others.

Walt sure didn't make it easy on anyone huh?

"We need to change this, but I don't want it to be betray our core concepts and ideals."

I know about the research surveys Disney uses to help get ideas about attraction likeability, but do they ever have "focus groups" about potential attractions or decisions?

As far as ride design goes, I imagine it would be quite difficult, but what is the process of prototypes? With the computer age, I would guess designers could create the entire attraction digitally, and have people "ride" it, via a simulator or even just a computer screen. Has this been done before? With SSE07 for example, WDI could have created a computer program to virtually experience the ride, and make adjustments accordingly.

Real world research and fact finding is important in most all other design professions, so I was curious as to how much this exists at WDI. I wonder if this would help ease the discord between nostalgia and novelty that seems inevitable for WDI.


Ever get a chance to ask Marty about the transition of FW from exposition-style to story-driven?

I hope you are enjoying this thread as much as I am. There have been some really great discussions and for the most part staying on topic. Thanks to all!

Yes, it's my favorite thread since I've joined.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You make a good point. Sometimes its the things we grow up with regardless of quality that we end up loving and missing. I had designed my first ride at Knott's and when it opened it fell so short of what I wanted it to be, I sat on a bench and quietly cried. My wife thought I was nuts as I had been doing all-nighters for weeks trying to finish it. The show was not almost nonexistent and nothing worked. Embarrassing. I thought my ride designing career would be over in one shot. The ride system was fun and that made it popular, but that's it. 20 years later, I get mail about how much people remember loving that ride ("I can't believe they took it out!") because it was from when they were kids and it was fun. I guess in death, the "Soap Box Racers" gets better with time.

Look at this micechat thread.LOL!
http://micechat.com/forums/yesterland-discussions/41945-yester-knotts.html

Original TV ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Pky08HRSY&feature=related

Awww, Eddie.:lol: that's a interesting story...

 

[The Conundrum]

Eddie, I have said it before and i will say it again, the soap box racers was one of my family's favorite rides. It was so fun and I remember when I was little me and my sister would create our own story for the ride based on those cat and mouse figures in the attraction.

I was ed when they removed it for another generic roller coaster.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I know about the research surveys Disney uses to help get ideas about attraction likeability, but do they ever have "focus groups" about potential attractions or decisions?

As far as ride design goes, I imagine it would be quite difficult, but what is the process of prototypes? With the computer age, I would guess designers could create the entire attraction digitally, and have people "ride" it, via a simulator or even just a computer screen. Has this been done before?.

Building the ride in 3D first is pretty much standard these days, sometimes a foam model is scanned, other times its built from scratch. It is very good to get a sense of scene timing. Indy and Pooh for TDL had "animatics", or model videos shot before 3D was easy to do. It's projected in scale so you can walk through it. I think the DVD of the Little Mermaid that was re-released recently has a 3D ride through of the upcoming ride or similar.

 

[Christi22222]

Hi! I rarely post and haven't read all of this thread, but I quickly had to chime in that I LOVED the soap box racers at Knott's! I don't remember the age I was when we rode them. I went to Knott's only half a dozen times in my life, far fewer than Disney. All I know, is that when I returned as a young adult 20 years ago (the last time) I was sorely disappointed to see the racers gone, as they had been a favorite. They were fun, interesting, and different as an experience. Not a "generic coaster" as conundrum pointed out. I felt very much that they were a much more "Disney" like ride, where you were transported to another world where fantasy took over. Even if it takes your own imagination to make the fantasy real, that's still okay in my book. I just like being in that alternate reality that is my own "happiest place on earth."

 

[The Conundrum]

Me too. When I heard about the 20K prequel I thought of some ideas to thread a trilogy together that I think would work incredibly. I guess that is why we are all drawn to this place. We are all armchair imagineers.

If I was you I might PM the guy at blue sky disney. He seems to have some connections. Can't hurt to try.

According to an insider on LP that I was speaking with about two years ago. The plan was/is to make this new 20k series a trilogy beginning with the prequel, then doing a new version of 20k, and concluding with Mysterious Island.

However if Mcg is the director and there looking to cast people like Will Smith and The rock in the lead you can already right this off. Disney ruined Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy and it loosk like there gonna ruin 20k as well.

Oh well, theres always The Black Hole (oops )

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

According to an insider on LP that I was speaking with about two years ago. The plan was/is to make this new 20k series a trilogy beginning with the prequel, then doing a new version of 20k, and concluding with Mysterious Island.

However if Mcg is the director and there looking to cast people like Will Smith and The rock in the lead you can already right this off. Disney ruined Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy and it loosk like there gonna ruin 20k as well.

Oh well, theres always The Black Hole (oops )

The 1954 Version of the movie IS IT. They can't top that...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hi! I rarely post and haven't read all of this thread, but I quickly had to chime in that I LOVED the soap box racers at Knott's! I don't remember the age I was when we rode them. I went to Knott's only half a dozen times in my life, far fewer than Disney. All I know, is that when I returned as a young adult 20 years ago (the last time) I was sorely disappointed to see the racers gone, as they had been a favorite. They were fun, interesting, and different as an experience. Not a "generic coaster" as conundrum pointed out. I felt very much that they were a much more "Disney" like ride, where you were transported to another world where fantasy took over. Even if it takes your own imagination to make the fantasy real, that's still okay in my book. I just like being in that alternate reality that is my own "happiest place on earth."

Christi, you MADE my day, thanks!

 

[The Conundrum]

Christi did you even read what I said? I said I LOVED the soap box racers!!

I hated what they replaced it with.

The 1954 Version of the movie IS IT. They can't top that...

They can make it more faithful to the book for starters

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Christi did you even read what I said? I said I LOVED the soap box racers!!

I hated what they replaced it with.



They can make it more faithful to the book for starters

You made my day too! thx. Watch the 20K DVD and they say in one of the documentaries that the book had no story so they made it a "jailbreak" movie.

 

[Christi22222]

Conundrum- I'm sorry if I was unclear in my hastily written post. I KNOW you liked the soap box racers! I was backing you up. I only quoted you on the "generic coaster" becuase you had it right. Thanks for the happy memory!

Eddie - So glad to have made your day. It is fun to share my feelings about something I loved as a kiddo with the person responsible! Thanks for bringing a knowledgeable point of view to the boards, too.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Christi did you even read what I said? I said I LOVED the soap box racers!!

I hated what they replaced it with.



They can make it more faithful to the book for starters

:lol: True, but the movie still reeks of awesome.

You made my day too! thx. Watch the 20K DVD and they say in one of the documentaries that the book had no story so they made it a "jailbreak" movie.

:lol: I always laugh when I see that...

 

[jt04]

Hi Eddie, I just read the Progress City blog and it has a long description on the history of and the writers view of Epcot's future. The first half is great. But the second half descends into the view that the future of Epcot must reflect the left's world view. He even mentions Al Gore's "documentary" and other largely political machinations. This is my greatest fear for Epcot's future is that it will be politisized and infused with an agenda. Just wondering if you have read the blog and what your thoughts are.

Keep politics out of Epcot!

That's my opinion.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hi Eddie, I just read the Progress City blog and it has a long description on the history of and the writers view of Epcot's future. The first half is great. But the second half descends into the view that the future of Epcot must reflect the left's world view. He even mentions Al Gore's "documentary" and other largely political machinations. This is my greatest fear for Epcot's future is that it will be politisized and infused with an agenda. Just wondering if you have read the blog and what your thoughts are.

Keep politics out of Epcot!

That's my opinion.

Hmm. I had never read this blog till now, but as you know, opinions are the reasons blogs exist. So they are just that. The whole idea of the "future" when it is confined to an actual "city" does get into politics as it must march to a drummer of some sort. I like the Hotel/DVC version of PC as it sidesteps this issue of governance. It's a model city resort. Export the ideas you like best.

As it is, Disney is considered by some to be a form of "friendly fascism" so you can't please 'em all. I think Walt even realized that he could not avoid the intervention of political ideology as he represents his own. Progress City in of itself has an "agenda", and is an editorial statement on urban planning and social culture. The key to it's success is it's sincerity, optimism, solutions and cultural benevolence.

Digression alert.

(I saw that 1990's Space rendering on that PCUSA blog (guest hanging on a rail in a device "now were talkin") and as a concept it's great, but in the end you could never get away with that. The low capacity (even if they were back to back) and huge cost of a single person vehicle is something that has been killed more times than a "whack a mole". You have to do linked groups for four or more at a time. To spend that kind of $$$$$ per guest and not get a capacity beyond Mr Toad, becomes prohibitive. Sure you do more tracks, etc, but it all adds up in the end and hurts the show you are looking at. It's cool, it's possible, but not very realistic.) Just an observation.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I never understood how EPCOT was Republican anyway.:shrug::lol:


If it is, it makes me quite bi partisan.:ROFLOL::lookaroun

 

[jt04]

Hmm. I had never read this blog till now, but as you know, opinions are the reasons blogs exist. So they are just that. The whole idea of the "future" when it is confined to an actual "city" does get into politics as it must march to a drummer of some sort. I like the Hotel/DVC version of PC as it sidesteps this issue of governance. It's a model city resort. Export the ideas you like best.

As it is, Disney is considered by some to be a form of "friendly fascism" so you can't please 'em all. I think Walt even realized that he could not avoid the intervention of political ideology as he represents his own. Progress City in of itself has an "agenda", and is an editorial statement on urban planning and social culture. The key to it's success is it's sincerity, optimism, solutions and cultural benevolence.

Well said.

 

[jt04]

I never understood how EPCOT was Republican anyway.:shrug::lol:

Who said it was? :shrug:

It was always non-political in my view which was incredibly refreshing. They really need to bring that back. Now if Sierra Club or other environmental groups want to sponsor some post show exhibits or something in Innoventions, I think that would be great but I think it would only work if it was honest. They certainly have the money.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Hmm. I had never read this blog till now, but as you know, opinions are the reasons blogs exist. So they are just that. The whole idea of the "future" when it is confined to an actual "city" does get into politics as it must march to a drummer of some sort. I like the Hotel/DVC version of PC as it sidesteps this issue of governance. It's a model city resort. Export the ideas you like best.

As it is, Disney is considered by some to be a form of "friendly fascism" so you can't please 'em all. I think Walt even realized that he could not avoid the intervention of political ideology as he represents his own. Progress City in of itself has an "agenda", and is an editorial statement on urban planning and social culture. The key to it's success is it's sincerity, optimism, solutions and cultural benevolence.

Well said.

Indeed! Wasn't it introduced as two worlds, always changing and above politics? I seem to remember reading that.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Who said it was? :shrug:

It was always non-political in my view which was incredibly refreshing. They really need to bring that back. Now if Sierra Club or other environmental groups want to sponsor some post show exhibits or something in Innoventions, I think that would be great but I think it would only work if it was honest. They certainly have the money.

It was always a urban legend that EPCOT was a "republican future":lol::lookaroun

 

[jt04]

Indeed! Wasn't it introduced as two worlds, always changing and above politics? I seem to remember reading that.

That sounds correct.