Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[jt04]

It was always a urban legend that EPCOT was a "republican future":lol::lookaroun

People are crazy. :lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

That sounds correct.

Now it's bugging me...Where did I read it!? *goes to EPCOT library to cross reference...*

People are crazy. :lol:

Indeed. Not once, have I ever been in EPCOT and thought anything if a Political nature.:shrug:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It was always a urban legend that EPCOT was a "republican future":lol::lookaroun

I guess if you look at Disney and it's image as a "short hair" conservative stance at the parks, and being a "family values" brand, then you would imagine that it is Orange County, right wing or conservative in stereotype. This uber control and conformity is where the "friendly fascism" comes from. (I prefer benevolent retail dictatorship) EPCOT (progress city version) was supposed to be governed/fueled by innovation in private industry which seems to say that it is pro business and anti big government. So in a way it could be seen as Republican, but labels are dangerous as there is so much baggage that comes with them. I'd prefer to label EPCOT as just Disney. I'm gonna stay politically neutral in all of this so you folks have at it.

 

[HMF]

I don't like playing the politics angle because I don't think EPCOT or Disney should have any political agenda but judging from Walt's plans for EPCOT seem to be a corporate dictatorship to me. In a way I am glad we got the EPCOT Center rather than Walt's plan to be honest.:lookaroun

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I don't like playing the politics angle because I don't think EPCOT or Disney should have any political agenda but judging from Walt's plans for EPCOT seem to be a corporate dictatorship to me. In a way I am glad we got the EPCOT Center rather than Walt's plan to be honest.:lookaroun

It was to a degree, but you don't have to be a part of it (unlike the cellphone monopoly). PC is probably like being in a homeowners association. You consent to letting them making everyone keep their garage doors down and painting their homes tuscan peach. The owners all feel that the overall effect is worth it, so they abide by the rules.
(I moved!)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I guess if you look at Disney and it's image as a "short hair" conservative stance at the parks, and being a "family values" brand, then you would imagine that it is Orange County, right wing or conservative in stereotype. This uber control and conformity is where the "friendly fascism" comes from. (I prefer benevolent retail dictatorship) EPCOT (progress city version) was supposed to be governed/fueled by innovation in private industry which seems to say that it is pro business and anti big government. So in a way it could be seen as Republican, but labels are dangerous as there is so much baggage that comes with them. I'd prefer to label EPCOT as just Disney. I'm gonna stay politically neutral in all of this so you folks have at it.

Yes, I see that. Agreeing with you, Eddie...and staying out.:lol:

I don't like playing the politics angle because I don't think EPCOT or Disney should have any political agenda but judging from Walt's plans for EPCOT seem to be a corporate dictatorship to me. In a way I am glad we got the EPCOT Center rather than Walt's plan to be honest.:lookaroun

So am I. It works so well as a park. (or worked...)


Besides, we got a ton of E.P.C.O.T. City in WDW itself.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Q. What attraction could never be in EPCOT, the Republican Future?

A. Mission:Space, unless it was in the "no spin" zone.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Q. What attraction could never be in EPCOT, the Republican Future?

A. Mission:Space, unless it was in the "no spin" zone.

*drumset*
:lol:

Stick with your day job, Eddie...

 

[HMF]

Q. What attraction could never be in EPCOT, the Republican Future?

A. Mission:Space, unless it was in the "no spin" zone.

(hi-hat -snare drum sound)
They used to call Epcot "The Future as envisioned by Republicans" I really don't follow the logic' I don't see any political statements one way or the other.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

(hi-hat -snare drum sound)
They used to call Epcot "The Future as envisioned by Republicans" I really don't follow the logic' I don't see any political statements one way or the other.

You're right...I'll stick to my day job. Have a great weekend.

 

[Horizonsfan]

(hi-hat -snare drum sound)
They used to call Epcot "The Future as envisioned by Republicans" I really don't follow the logic' I don't see any political statements one way or the other.

I've heard of this too and all I can figure is the people/person who coined this must of been to the far left. The type of person where anyone who isn't as far leaning as them is 100% conservative. I'm sure there have been visitors from the far right who have thought of Epcot as the "future envisioned by Democrats".

Epcot is very well balanced in its education and information. You would have to go in with an agenda of your own to think that Epcot has one (other than to educate and inspire).


....I this thread.

 

[HMF]

I've heard of this too and all I can figure is the people/person who coined this must of been to the far left. The type of person where anyone who isn't as far leaning as them is 100% conservative. I'm sure there have been visitors from the far right who have thought of Epcot as the "future envisioned by Democrats".
.

I have run into these types of people. Leaning too far either way can be bad in my opinion.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I've heard of this too and all I can figure is the people/person who coined this must of been to the far left. The type of person where anyone who isn't as far leaning as them is 100% conservative. I'm sure there have been visitors from the far right who have thought of Epcot as the "future envisioned by Democrats".

Epcot is very well balanced in its education and information. You would have to go in with an agenda of your own to think that Epcot has one (other than to educate and inspire).


....I this thread.

Indeed.


Even now it has no slant. (hard to fathom...:lol

And yes, Eddie has a great thread here a THOUSAND thanks to him for joining up here.

 

[Huck]

The place that Disney holds in my heart is largely based on memories of my youth, and that nostalgia.


I've always believed that the thing that Disney has done best throughout its themepark designing history is to create a sense of "instant nostaglia". The feeling that you had at the end of your first day ever in the Magic Kingdom when your brain was telling you "I've never experienced anything like this but it is comfortable and familiar like everything I've ever loved". It is that amazing and totally improbable dichotomy of making something completely novel and exciting that also feels entirely natural that drives my desire to go to the parks. I still get that from time to time: TSM actually did it for me.
Sorry to jump in so late in the thread, but I've been quietly lurking the whole time. I also very much heart this thread. Probably the most well thought and well articulated posts I can remember. Thanks all for your great insights and ideas.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've always believed that the thing that Disney has done best throughout its themepark designing history is to create a sense of "instant nostaglia". The feeling that you had at the end of your first day ever in the Magic Kingdom when your brain was telling you "I've never experienced anything like this but it is comfortable and familiar like everything I've ever loved"

What a great observation about nostalgia!
When you design these places you try and leverage symbolism in architecture, color and scale. That was why I was intimidated to do Main Street for DLP because there was no assurance of this "instant nostalgia" effect, as the whole "Victorian America" thing was irrelevant to Europeans (why we pushed for the 1920s) and the symbolism could backfire and be mistranslated to a degree. (After all, American Victorian design was derived from England and France and a naive copy). Herb Ryman made me realize that we needed to make Main Street a place that would theatrically "disarm" you, to make adults feel they did as a child. That IS universal. So it is romantically childlike and playful, the candy smells, lots of sophisticated color, toy trains, etc. MSUSA in DLP was the idea of America (and MSUSA is the origin or "roots" of Disney as it's also Marceline on crack) that was optimistic, built by immigrants, and carefree (Statue of Liberty) and they do get that, and give themselves permission to be a kid for the rest of the day.

Where else can you get away with wearing a MouseEars but in the park?

 

[Huck]

What a great observation about nostalgia!
When you design these places you try and leverage symbolism in architecture, color and scale. That was why I was intimidated to do Main Street for DLP because there was no assurance of this "instant nostalgia" effect, as the whole "Victorian America" thing was irrelevant to Europeans (why we pushed for the 1920s) and the symbolism could backfire and be mistranslated to a degree. (After all, American Victorian design was derived from England and France and a naive copy). Herb Ryman made me realize that we needed to make Main Street a place that would theatrically "disarm" you, to make adults feel they did as a child. That IS universal. So it is romantically childlike and playful, the candy smells, lots of sophisticated color, toy trains, etc. MSUSA in DLP was the idea of America (and MSUSA is the origin or "roots" of Disney as it's also Marceline on crack) that was optimistic, built by immigrants, and carefree (Statue of Liberty) and they do get that, and give themselves permission to be a kid for the rest of the day.

Where else can you get away with wearing a MouseEars but in the park?

Never having been to DLP I can only draw from what I've seen in pictures and video, but I can completely see where you were trying to evoke the European, romanticized ideal of the USA rather than recreating the American romanticized ideal of MSUSA that we experience in both MK's in the US. Basic imagineering concepts, I am certain, but really interesting for me to hear about. I wonder how our European board members who have been to both and have also brought to both main streets their uniquely non-american notions feel about the differences between them?

Edit:
Is it socially inappropriate to wear mouse ears outside of the
Disney parks?
Note to self...

 

[Huck]

Just speaking for myself, but when I talk about bringing Epcot Center back, I am not talking about the original rides. I'm talking about what FW represented when the park opened. And that is the view that innovation and free markets create improvements to our quality of life. Nowadays we are told corporations are the great evil in the land and only pollute and plot ways to take money.

Here is th best example I can think of and one of the easiest. Rewrite the storyline of Test Track to be a test of self navigating vehicle technology which is at least 20 years away but is fun to think about. It would be easy to have a story where the inevitable "testing" goes wrong and the vehicle computer decides it's bored with the testing and goes on a joy ride, with guests in tow. So a fun, futuristic technology is introduced in a creative way and it's also a thrill ride. It also could have humor by poking fun and making "inside jokes" about Test Tracks original problems.

This would not only "placate" the traditionalists, these type fun and informative views of the future would thrill the "masses".

JT,
I think this is a really neat idea! I must admit that the first time I rode TT it was during the soft opening phase (what was that, about a year and a half long?:lol and the ride went 101 just as we got out on the loop. We topped out at about 35 MPH. I remember being very disappointed by an attraction that I had really looked forward to. Part of that disappointment came from my previous experience; my first trip to WDW was in 1985, I was 15 and I was full of the optimism for the future that EPCOT Center was all about. Test Track never captured that for me and I was left feeling let-down. Your really elegantly simple story overlay strikes me as a way to recapture that feeling.
Having said all of that, now I must confess that I didn't ride TT again more than once until I had kids who are old enough to go on it. Now, suddenly, Test Track holds a new appeal to me. The optimism is there, again, in the joy and excitement that my kids experience on the ride! The main difference, for me, is that with your idea for the overlay, we could capture both of these positive feelings and entertain a broader audience.
Extrapolating this experience with my kids a little further, I can also see that my nostalgia for EPCOT Center (yes, here I go on the nostalgia trip again) is not relevant to my kids who are imbibing Epcot in its present form. They, however, will have an intensely nostalgic feeling for Test Track, I have no doubt about it. Even when we're driving to the grocery store at home they pretend we're on TT in the car ("Let's put up the blocks: German and Belgian).
Because of my kids, I am not fearful of changing the make-up of the Disney parks, I just want to continue to capture the same feelings they have always conjured.
Anyhow, long-winded mindiarrhea aside, I really like your idea... Now go make it happen!!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The place that Disney holds in my heart is largely based on memories of my youth, and that nostalgia.

I've always believed that the thing that Disney has done best throughout its themepark designing history is to create a sense of "instant nostaglia". The feeling that you had at the end of your first day ever in the Magic Kingdom when your brain was telling you "I've never experienced anything like this but it is comfortable and familiar like everything I've ever loved". It is that amazing and totally improbable dichotomy of making something completely novel and exciting that also feels entirely natural that drives my desire to go to the parks. I still get that from time to time: TSM actually did it for me.
Sorry to jump in so late in the thread, but I've been quietly lurking the whole time. I also very much heart this thread. Probably the most well thought and well articulated posts I can remember. Thanks all for your great insights and ideas.

Honestly, if it weren't for that...I wouldn't still be a fan today. It's the manufactured nostalgia and my own, that keeps me intact and still a fan on WDW.


If anything, it's a testament to the Disney of olde.:lol:

 

[jt04]

JT,
I think this is a really neat idea! I must admit that the first time I rode TT it was during the soft opening phase (what was that, about a year and a half long?:lol and the ride went 101 just as we got out on the loop. We topped out at about 35 MPH. I remember being very disappointed by an attraction that I had really looked forward to. Part of that disappointment came from my previous experience; my first trip to WDW was in 1985, I was 15 and I was full of the optimism for the future that EPCOT Center was all about. Test Track never captured that for me and I was left feeling let-down. Your really elegantly simple story overlay strikes me as a way to recapture that feeling.
Having said all of that, now I must confess that I didn't ride TT again more than once until I had kids who are old enough to go on it. Now, suddenly, Test Track holds a new appeal to me. The optimism is there, again, in the joy and excitement that my kids experience on the ride! The main difference, for me, is that with your idea for the overlay, we could capture both of these positive feelings and entertain a broader audience.
Extrapolating this experience with my kids a little further, I can also see that my nostalgia for EPCOT Center (yes, here I go on the nostalgia trip again) is not relevant to my kids who are imbibing Epcot in its present form. They, however, will have an intensely nostalgic feeling for Test Track, I have no doubt about it. Even when we're driving to the grocery store at home they pretend we're on TT in the car ("Let's put up the blocks: German and Belgian).
Because of my kids, I am not fearful of changing the make-up of the Disney parks, I just want to continue to capture the same feelings they have always conjured.
Anyhow, long-winded mindiarrhea aside, I really like your idea... Now go make it happen!!

Great story and thanks! Would that I could make it happen. I put the concept on here several months ago but you probably didn't see that. There is more to the idea. Basically the cars artificial "intelligence" would be a cross between KIT of Knight Rider and HAL9000 from the movie "2001". An early programmer of the navigation software has left some Itune downloads on his programming computer to listen to while programming the vehicle. In the haste to get the vehicle tested the songs get downloaded into the vehicle and that causes the vehicle to respond to the songs which suddenly play randomly through the audio system. Of course the programmer happens to be a fan of classic rock "road anthems" such as "Born to be Wild", "Running on Empty" etc.

The problem, as some have stated, is getting a sponsor to agree to this "outside the box" type concept. But I think that may be a narrow view. I think it might be more beneficial to have a ride experience that is "cool" and "fun" associated with your brand even if it is an obvious parody of the developmental process. First you give guests a fun intro before presenting the "serious" stuff. Mostly just wishful thinking on my part. Ultimately I'd like to see the pavilion be a presentation of a myraiad of futuristic transportation technologies with a large and diverse group of sponsors. The could even call the pavillion "World of Motion".

 

[Huck]

Great story and thanks! Would that I could make it happen. I put the concept on here several months ago but you probably didn't see that. There is more to the idea. Basically the cars artificial "intelligence" would be a cross between KIT of Knight Rider and HAL9000 from the movie "2001". An early programmer of the navigation software has left some Itune downloads on his programming computer to listen to while programming the vehicle. In the haste to get the vehicle tested the songs get downloaded into the vehicle and that causes the vehicle to respond to the songs which suddenly play randomly through the audio system. Of course the programmer happens to be a fan of classic rock "road anthems" such as "Born to be Wild", "Running on Empty" etc.

The problem, as some have stated, is getting a sponsor to agree to this "outside the box" type concept. But I think that may be a narrow view. I think it might be more beneficial to have a ride experience that is "cool" and "fun" associated with your brand even if it is an obvious parody of the developmental process. First you give guests a fun intro before presenting the "serious" stuff. Mostly just wishful thinking on my part. Ultimately I'd like to see the pavilion be a presentation of a myraiad of futuristic transportation technologies with a large and diverse group of sponsors. The could even call the pavillion "World of Motion".

Don't know how I missed the previous thread that contained that idea.?! Maybe it was buried in a thread that got OT or developed a flame war? I tend to skim past those. Anyway, nice concept.:wave: