Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
...what makes you so sure it is dead and not just evolved?

While EPCOT remains my favorite park, mostly due to the memories it evokes from my childhood, I can't say I really feel the vision of what it once stood for. Look at the latest additions... Soarin and Nemo... what portion of "Future World" do you feel they represent?

Oh don't get me wrong, my statement is not to condemn either as I do enjoy them.

I just question the need for the word "Future" other than its place in the park's history.
I completely agree with you, except for not condemning Soarin' and Nemo. Epcot's Future World has long ago lost its way. As long as each new venue is styled in some ultra-modern decor it doesn't seem to matter what its content is or what its message, if any, is. In some cases the decor doesn't even have to be futuristic - but more industrial.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
...what makes you so sure it is dead and not just evolved?

While EPCOT remains my favorite park, mostly due to the memories it evokes from my childhood, I can't say I really feel the vision of what it once stood for. Look at the latest additions... Soarin and Nemo... what portion of "Future World" do you feel they represent?

Oh don't get me wrong, my statement is not to condemn either as I do enjoy them.

I just question the need for the word "Future" other than its place in the park's history.

A part of me fears you are right about the culture not being forward looking. Everything is geared to the "here and now" which seems a shame to me. It just seems so uninspired. But when the entertainment industry is selling a future of gloom for mankind (ie Wall-E) I guess that can be expected.

I'm just hoping that people will wake up and realize they are having their "future" stolen by lies and learn to dream again. Because otherwise we are going nowhere. Which is what they want!

Future World can be fixed. And it wouldn't be all that difficult or expensive.
 

ClemsonTigger

Naturally Grumpy
Why is it that I seem to be the only die-hard Epcot enthusiast here who likes Mission Space?:confused:

Because you are not quite dealing with a random sampling of the "Disney guest population" You can count me in to your MS fan group.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
...what makes you so sure it is dead and not just evolved?

While EPCOT remains my favorite park, mostly due to the memories it evokes from my childhood, I can't say I really feel the vision of what it once stood for. Look at the latest additions... Soarin and Nemo... what portion of "Future World" do you feel they represent?

Oh don't get me wrong, my statement is not to condemn either as I do enjoy them.

I just question the need for the word "Future" other than its place in the park's history.
Dead in the aesthetic sense...:lookaroun:lol: A Forest for FW? No thank you? CCore cleaved in half and portions missing? Noooo..:lol:


As for the attractions? Eh....Seas as come to pass, but at least we still have SSE.
 

ValentineMouse

New Member
I always thought 'Progressland' would be a good name for Future World.

It thematically sums up the area (Spaceship Earth for example shows the progression of communication rather than just future communications technology), and it's a nice nod to the 1964 Worlds Fair.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I always thought 'Progressland' would be a good name for Future World.

It thematically sums up the area (Spaceship Earth for example shows the progression of communication rather than just future communications technology), and it's a nice nod to the 1964 Worlds Fair.

Nice idea. I guess if they were to change the name, Discovery World or Discoveryland would be my preferences. Those names are generic enough to cover just about anything. I think I will run away before Epcot Explorer catches us talking this way. :lookaroun
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Nice idea. I guess if they were to change the name, Discovery World or Discoveryland would be my preferences. Those names are generic enough to cover just about anything. I think I will run away before Epcot Explorer catches us talking this way. :lookaroun

You rang?:mad::D


Honestly, I'm against all name changes. It's FUTURE WORLD. Showing us a realistic and optimistic vision of what's to come in our lives. Re naming it and making it generic would be giving up and failing.

Besides, Future World sounds so much more impressive than "land" or "DiscoveryWorld". It's to the point. No questions about it...:cool:
 

ClemsonTigger

Naturally Grumpy
I completely agree with you, except for not condemning Soarin' and Nemo. Epcot's Future World has long ago lost its way. As long as each new venue is styled in some ultra-modern decor it doesn't seem to matter what its content is or what its message, if any, is. In some cases the decor doesn't even have to be futuristic - but more industrial.

Futuristic decor? Do you mean like the Contemporary?
It truly is a futile pursuit as technology now changes so rapidly...It is nearly impossible to keep infrastructure current. Just think of the short history of current technology, from flat screen TV's to cellphones and blackberrys. None of this was even in the vernacular 10 years ago. How can buildings and infrastructure keep up with that pace.
 

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
Futuristic decor? Do you mean like the Contemporary?
Yes I used that term to highlight a point. In many cases the new venues in Future World don't even communicate futuristic so much as they speak of modern or even just industrial. From content of the attractions and exhibits themselves to the design of the physical structures Future World has no cohesive vision anymore.
It truly is a futile pursuit as technology now changes so rapidly...It is nearly impossible to keep infrastructure current. Just think of the short history of current technology, from flat screen TV's to cellphones and blackberrys. None of this was even in the vernacular 10 years ago. How can buildings and infrastructure keep up with that pace.
Count me among the camp that supports more of a "discovery" and "inspiration" theme as opposed to forecasting the future. As you said, technology is advancing at a tremendous pace and it's impractical to maintain attractions and exhibits to keep them fresh at this rate. Future World should inspire, entertain and invite us to learn from our past. Imagination could, for example, allow guests to create elements of their ride to actually particpate in the creative process of their very own ride-through attraction (yes I have devised practical methods regarding how to do this while maintaining an acceptable capacity and development budget). Energy could be a thrill ride racing game where, depending on how you conserve the resources given and what types of energy sources you use to overcome the obstacles in your path, your team would have the chance to come in first place. These are just off the top of my head but all practical based on concepts and proposals I've worked on that have the basics fleshed out such as motion plans, capacity, layout, budget, engineering, guest flow etc.

Of course not everything has to be a high-tech interactive mega-adventure. There is still room in this Future World vision for venues like Horizons and Spaceship Earth.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Futuristic decor? Do you mean like the Contemporary?
It truly is a futile pursuit as technology now changes so rapidly...It is nearly impossible to keep infrastructure current. Just think of the short history of current technology, from flat screen TV's to cellphones and blackberrys. None of this was even in the vernacular 10 years ago. How can buildings and infrastructure keep up with that pace.

Honestly, the architecture of FW is fine...Look at UoE, TLS, TL....All relevant to me. It's the presentation that's the problem.
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Honestly, the architecture of FW is fine...Look at UoE, TLS, TL....All relevant to me. It's the presentation that's the problem.

Considering when they were built, I agree those particular buildings, and I would add SSE to the list, are relevant, and more importantly "transparent." By transparent, I mean that the exterior reflects what the structure is housing.

However, by either plussing existing structures, or when the opportunity arises for a new building, they could push the envelope of modern and futuristic architecture. I look no further than the Bay Lake Tower. A chance to innovate or even, just plain steal, ideas and concepts from "masterpieces" of modern, postmodern and futuristic architecture. And imho, they came up short.

I will post a few pictures just to better describe my points. Structures such as these are what I think of when I think of what a "Future" world might look like. Ironically, these buildings exist in the here and now. :) Ideas like kinetic architecture (essentially buildings that move, change, adapt), sustainable building materials and methods, architecture as information (information that is conveyed through architectural structure and space), LED glazings, interactive architecture, and innovative organic and inorganic forms.

For example:

220879763_eedd75a24c.jpg


greenpix_led_wall.jpg


selfridge-future-systems_001.jpg


14064_image_1.700x491.jpg


wind_building.jpg


A question for Eddie, not sure if you have this information or not. I know for many years now, TWDC has reached out to prominent architects of the time to design various buildings and spaces throughout the companies many divisions. I know of the many examples in Celebration, the Anaheim offices, the Animation building, Wilderness Lodge, etc., etc., etc., but I have never heard of any buildings within any of the parks worldwide, where TDWC asked an architect to design the structure. Not just on property, but within the "show." My question is have they ever used an "outside" architect to design a "park" building?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Considering when they were built, I agree those particular buildings, and I would add SSE to the list, are relevant, and more importantly "transparent." By transparent, I mean that the exterior reflects what the structure is housing.

However, by either plussing existing structures, or when the opportunity arises for a new building, they could push the envelope of modern and futuristic architecture. I look no further than the Bay Lake Tower. A chance to innovate or even, just plain steal, ideas and concepts from "masterpieces" of modern, postmodern and futuristic architecture. And imho, they came up short.

I will post a few pictures just to better describe my points. Structures such as these are what I think of when I think of what a "Future" world might look like. Ironically, these buildings exist in the here and now. :) Ideas like kinetic architecture (essentially buildings that move, change, adapt), sustainable building materials and methods, architecture as information (information that is conveyed through architectural structure and space), LED glazings, interactive architecture, and innovative organic and inorganic forms.

For example:

220879763_eedd75a24c.jpg


greenpix_led_wall.jpg



A question for Eddie, not sure if you have this information or not. I know for many years now, TWDC has reached out to prominent architects of the time to design various buildings and spaces throughout the companies many divisions. I know of the many examples in Celebration, the Anaheim offices, the Animation building, Wilderness Lodge, etc., etc., etc., but I have never heard of any buildings within any of the parks worldwide, where TDWC asked an architect to design the structure. Not just on property, but within the "show." My question is have they ever used an "outside" architect to design a "park" building?

Thanks in advance for any insight.
Yes, exactly.:D I thought SSE was a given.


Love the pics you posted especially the 1st two...Stuff like that would be fantastic in EPCOT.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Not that I know of, i know it has been discussed even as far back as when i was there so, I would not be surprised if they did. I mention this kind of design in my interview
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Not that I know of, i know it has been discussed even as far back as when i was there so, I would not be surprised if they did. I mention this kind of design in my interview

You know, this thread has evolved so much, I kind of forgot it all started with the interview. You did indeed. My apologies. I even had to re-read the interview.

So I suppose I'll sum my thoughts up with a "yeah, what Eddie Sotto said." :)

A further question, though; Why, in your opinion, have they used the talents of outside designers (not to take anything away from the multitudes of wonderful designers they have/had, present company included) for other projects, but not for any park design? I bet Rem Koolhaus could make a sweet theme park.

Just out of curiosity, what names were thrown around?

About the interview, do you believe your notion of tomorrowland could ever happen? Of Walt's Progress City as a DVC concept?

If you might elaborate as well on the idea of this shift being born of a corporate initiative? Why has Disney fallen behind in predicting the future as design, something they seemed to be at the forefront for many decades?
 

marsrunner

New Member
Disney is able to manage some interesting architecture....

800px-WaltDisneyConcertHall.jpeg
Its very late (or very early, depending) so forgive if you intended this sarcastically, but I don't believe the Walt Disney Company had nothing to do with the Walt Disney Concert Hall. Its called that because Lillian Disney (Walt's widow) made a contribution in 1987 to build the place as a tribute to Walt's love of the arts. It was designed by Frank Gehry (architecture) and Yasuhisa Toyota (acoustics).
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
LOL. I don't even know what that is? I remember French Cartoonist Jean Giraud Moebius being a consultant to our Lucas Tomorrowland and his designs were inspiration for some things we never ended up building.
:lol: The huge plan to overhall FW in the early 2000's.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=24356
Disney is able to manage some interesting architecture....

800px-WaltDisneyConcertHall.jpeg

Wouldn't mind a huge Music hall in EPCOT....:lookaroun:lol:
 

ClemsonTigger

Naturally Grumpy
Its very late (or very early, depending) so forgive if you intended this sarcastically, but I don't believe the Walt Disney Company had nothing to do with the Walt Disney Concert Hall. Its called that because Lillian Disney (Walt's widow) made a contribution in 1987 to build the place as a tribute to Walt's love of the arts. It was designed by Frank Gehry (architecture) and Yasuhisa Toyota (acoustics).

No sarcasm intended.
You are correct that is was L. Disney's pet project and designed by Gehry (I'll take your word about Toyota for acoustics), but the Disney Corporation did support their "First Lady" in pursuit of her dream.

I was simply providing it as an example of "futuristic architecture" following in the discussion.

I was being tongue-in-cheek with my comment about the Contemporary. Might have met the criteria for "futuristic" in the 60's and 70's, but it is quite ordinary by today's standards.
 
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