Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
That leads me to a question...do you avoid watching videos of attractions online, like newer rides and shows on youtube and the like?

Clearly a case can be made for experiencing the whole attraction because you'll be able to take it all in when you're there in person and a video can miss a lot of things, but I've been guilty of watching some videos of places I won't get to for a while.

I'm also not taking about closed attractions, because the only way we can experience those is by video like what Martin does so well (and that new Horizons CGI coming out)

Unless someone asks me a question and I need to be informed, I generally avoid those videos. I saw the Nemo Sub ride video as I won't likely ever ride it. To me, rides are immersive and experiential in a way that video just cannot capture so they are "cliffnotes" at best. Usually the metering of the video camera distorts the environments alot too. I did look at the Harry Potter Ride, but the video was pretty rough and didn't do it justice. Certainly you cannot make any intelligent judgements, but you get a rough sense of the production value and pacing.
 

juniorthomas

Well-Known Member
That leads me to a question...do you avoid watching videos of attractions online, like newer rides and shows on youtube and the like?

Clearly a case can be made for experiencing the whole attraction because you'll be able to take it all in when you're there in person and a video can miss a lot of things, but I've been guilty of watching some videos of places I won't get to for a while.

I'm also not taking about closed attractions, because the only way we can experience those is by video like what Martin does so well (and that new Horizons CGI coming out)

I know I do. I refused to watch anything about Everest until I was able to get on it. A year+ later of avoiding yeti shots I finally rode Everest. And the yeti was down that day. FML.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
U3X Pushing the Envelope big time at EPCOT.

Check out this amazing video from HONDA with a device that makes the Segway look lame. The U3X. I think this device could be programmed remotely to be a free ranging trackless ride system or be the basis of a live show of some kind. Autopia 2.0? or the potential solution for handicapped people with mobility issues and could do without those big scooter carts. You decide... You'd have to deal with all kind of safety issues but it's a tech stunner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cuIJRsAuCHQ
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
Check out this amazing video from HONDA with a device that makes the Segway look lame. The U3X. I think this device could be programmed remotely to be a free ranging trackless ride system or be the basis of a live show of some kind. Autopia 2.0? or the potential solution for handicapped people with mobility issues and could do without those big scooter carts. You decide... You'd have to deal with all kind of safety issues but it's a tech stunner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cuIJRsAuCHQ
Anything that replaces Autopia and its sister rides would be good for me, especially if it can maintain the spirit.

Getting to operate a vehicle at such a young age was a big deal for, I'm sure, tons of the posters here, and if not at least their families. But a big, ugly, loud, not-so-eco-friendly attraction with a huge footprint and nothing to do with "the promise of tomorrow" is not necessarily a great one. I would think something cleaner and more interesting could be designed while still maintaining the idea of putting kids in a role they can only dream about being in at that age.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Anything that replaces Autopia and its sister rides would be good for me, especially if it can maintain the spirit.

Getting to operate a vehicle at such a young age was a big deal for, I'm sure, tons of the posters here, and if not at least their families. But a big, ugly, loud, not-so-eco-friendly attraction with a huge footprint and nothing to do with "the promise of tomorrow" is not necessarily a great one. I would think something cleaner and more interesting could be designed while still maintaining the idea of putting kids in a role they can only dream about being in at that age.

Aspirational for sure. A great idea. My kids are 12 and they skipped Autopia pretty quickly due to the lame steering and slow speed and went right to GoCarts. Driving is timeless and a real wow. The funny thing is, that they make the gas pedal so hard to push (and distant) that small kids that love it most have to really struggle. It was awesome when you could get away with crashing. THAT was soooo fun:fork:
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
Aspirational for sure. A great idea. My kids are 12 and they skipped Autopia pretty quickly due to the lame steering and slow speed and went right to GoCarts. Driving is timeless and a real wow. The funny thing is, that they make the gas pedal so hard to push (and distant) that small kids that love it most have to really struggle. It was awesome when you could get away with crashing. THAT was soooo fun:fork:
Yeah, I remember being a kid and having a hell of a time hitting the pedal.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
As for the final element of story, I think ironically Eddie (seen as you profess to there not being a story!), your own decision of including the moral at the end of the ride actually lends more credence to the attraction having a story, fulfilling the 'narration or message (the moral of the story)'. By doing so, the attraction was repositioned from 'that's just how it is' happenstance to being a authored text that the creators feel the need to justify: you added purpose to why it has been told, in doing so admitting that it has been told.
Actually I think that was Tony Baxter and Bob Baranick's decision,but don't quote me. The message at the end now is apparently Jack enjoys his marvelous treasure and dead men do tell tales. Don't they? or something like that.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Actually I think that was Tony Baxter and Bob Baranick's decision,but don't quote me. The message at the end now is apparently Jack enjoys his marvelous treasure and dead men do tell tales. Don't they? or something like that.

It was, but I contributed creatively and lobbied that ending to them and earlier to Marty Sklar as a way to preserve the ride (the chase scene) asis. Jack Sparrow now recommends his life of larceny and enjoys his treasure.

The Davis post was put there to spur conversation. Your reactions, definitions, and explanations are really thought provoking. Keep it up!

I don't buy into that in every sense rides don't tell a "story", as the ones I worked on certainly did as was pointed out. It depends. Rides like POTC are their own unique form or medium that conveys a message if there is one in a different way than a Movie which I would imagine was what Walt was comparing them to when he said "you can't tell one". The type of conveyance either lends itself or not depending on it's speed, form and ability to view something. thrill rides tend not to do so and have a base premise or setting they take place in. BTM is about runaway mine train based on a haunted mountain. Not really told but assumed. Fun in any event, and best left untold unless you want to dig for it on fansites.

"TDL Pooh" and "Mission:Space" had a loose premise or story that progressed to an ending. They are much simpler than a movie and incomplete in many ways. Pooh opens and closes with a book like the films and the story or premise is "Pooh is looking for Honey".. Space is more of a premise with a "Do you have the Right Stuff?" challenge that you are training to go to Mars, that's pretty much it. Some are first person like Toad. As linear experiences there are lots left out and mostly told in big visual scenes with little or no words but when done well, that is their strength. You just experience it and finish it in your head (like a good painting, something is suggested). Like the burning town in POTC, you get the idea that they first capture the mayor, and then chase the women, then get drunk and burn down the town. It's a subtle progression of events told through several comical visuals that move the idea forward. Having said that, at the end the guest does leave with an impression of what they saw in total and if it was satisfying or not. An ending of sorts, or finale conveys that you survived it or what the results of your experience are. The splashdown on the Matterhorn is a good finale to racing down those slopes.

Rides are so immersive and experiential, they unfold more like real life. There are no closeups, cutaways, and are more like handheld "tracking shots", just like we experience in life. Reportage. POTC is almost as if you are an eyewitness to a street riot in progress and you gaze about to see where the action is. If you were witnessing something like this firsthand there would be no narrator or context, just whatever you would see on the streets as it happened and you'd gather for yourself what the sense is. In POTC, the bridges serve as "edit points" or "scenes", so the Auction scene has several vignettes of Davis situations collected into one, then the Chase scene has several more compiled into another piece of action, etc. Are they as linear and connected as a movie? No, but they flow in a progression as in most real situations. I love the format of rides as you have a premise that you can build on to give an impression.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
Aspirational for sure. A great idea. My kids are 12 and they skipped Autopia pretty quickly due to the lame steering and slow speed and went right to GoCarts. Driving is timeless and a real wow. The funny thing is, that they make the gas pedal so hard to push (and distant) that small kids that love it most have to really struggle. It was awesome when you could get away with crashing. THAT was soooo fun:fork:
Being as Disney is so fond of the sponsored attraction, I find it hard to believe that GM couldn't use the autopia concept to help advertise the new Chevy Volt in some way as a 'driving experience of the future'. Obviously they are probably a little cash poor at this point, but it would be a way of using the existing space without having to shell out a bunch of money in refurb and switching to a hybrid concept with some cool interior to really get kids attention.

You could even put in some interactive stuff if you wanted, like changeable radio stations or a fake GPS or some other stuff to make you feel like you were really driving in an advanced vehicle that might be in Tomorrowland.

If you really wanted to have fun, you could extend the attraction all the way around the park and use it as a transportation hub, letting people 'drive' their way to the next land around the hub. I know, far-fetched and not very practical, but it would be very cool. Like a TTA on steroids.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I really can't think of any other ride through attraction besides Pirates that has AA dialogue interaction like that between several of them.

I think that's what still sets it apart story-wise from any other Disney attraction.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
I really can't think of any other ride through attraction besides Pirates that has AA dialogue interaction like that between several of them.

I think that's what still sets it apart story-wise from any other Disney attraction.

Yeah, even the classic attractions don't feel the same way as Pirates does. It's why you can't have a trip without riding it.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Being as Disney is so fond of the sponsored attraction, I find it hard to believe that GM couldn't use the autopia concept to help advertise the new Chevy Volt in some way as a 'driving experience of the future'. Obviously they are probably a little cash poor at this point, but it would be a way of using the existing space without having to shell out a bunch of money in refurb and switching to a hybrid concept with some cool interior to really get kids attention.

You could even put in some interactive stuff if you wanted, like changeable radio stations or a fake GPS or some other stuff to make you feel like you were really driving in an advanced vehicle that might be in Tomorrowland.

If you really wanted to have fun, you could extend the attraction all the way around the park and use it as a transportation hub, letting people 'drive' their way to the next land around the hub. I know, far-fetched and not very practical, but it would be very cool. Like a TTA on steroids.

We proposed things like that in the cars years ago but they never got off the ground. Chevron being the sponsor at DL probably nixed the electric aspects.

The harder thing about the "trans hub idea" where you can get off in another land, is that parents wait for their kids at the exit, so it could get dramatic if the kids are ditching and getting off at several places. I still think it's a cool idea.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I really can't think of any other ride through attraction besides Pirates that has AA dialogue interaction like that between several of them.

I think that's what still sets it apart story-wise from any other Disney attraction.

You have sit down shows that do that, like "Carousel of Progress" (mother and father), CBJ, and American Adventure (Franklin and Twain) and Tiki Room (host birds) where the characters interact verbally.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
You have sit down shows that do that, like "Carousel of Progress" (mother and father), CBJ, and American Adventure (Franklin and Twain) and Tiki Room (host birds) where the characters interact verbally.

Hence why I said ride through ;)

Edit: Although COP is technically a ride
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Hence why I said ride through ;)

Edit: Although COP is technically a ride

Exactly, I'm drawing attention to your point because it is an interesting one to dissect. In fact, the aspect that you are seated and facing the stage is more formal and you expectation is for them to interact as in live theater, versus riding through an unfolding event supposedly in progress. Did World of Motion, Horizons, or Spaceship Earth have interactive AA dialog?
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
Exactly, I'm drawing attention to your point because it is an interesting one to dissect. In fact, the aspect that you are seated and facing the stage is more formal and you expectation is for them to interact as in live theater, versus riding through an unfolding event supposedly in progress. Did World of Motion, Horizons, or Spaceship Earth have interactive AA dialog?

Horizons did, at least in a few scenes, the father retrieving his son's shoe in zero gravity, and the birthday party.

Actually, there's the Great Movie ride which I didn't think of before, that too has a few scenes like that.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
Exactly, I'm drawing attention to your point because it is an interesting one to dissect. In fact, the aspect that you are seated and facing the stage is more formal and you expectation is for them to interact as in live theater, versus riding through an unfolding event supposedly in progress. Did World of Motion, Horizons, or Spaceship Earth have interactive AA dialog?

Only when I used to provide it for my family during World of Motion..and most of it was very un-Disney-like.:)
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Only when I used to provide it for my family during World of Motion..and most of it was very un-Disney-like.:)

Hmm. Sounds pretty interesting!

I guess when you look at it, you end up doing what will read best to the guest. You can only tell as much story as can be easily absorbed. If the setting and timing is such that you can convey a situation without words, or at least have it work visually and the words embellish it, then you're good. The Dog and Prisoners scene in POTC is like that. On one level you can see the dog has the keys and the guys want it. The point is made graphically. As you get closer you may catch what they are saying to the dog and that only reinforces the joke. Even if you don't understand English you still get the idea. Most of these gags are not dependent on the dialog to understand the action, but they have it anyway. Marc Davis was a master of making his scenes read visually first. The dunking of the mayor is pretty obvious and the interaction of the wife upstairs adds another dimension to the joke. Sound effects do a lot for that scene, the gurgling, screams, and gunshot make the point pretty clear. The gunshot reinforces the situation if you could not hear her dialog. the other thing that you have to think of is that the gags cycle. they have to be almost nonstop and reset themselves in a seamless way as the next boat is coming. The Pirate with the pile of hats on his head never stops trying to regain his balance. Pooh in TDL had to do this too, so what you end up doing has to cycle in only so many seconds and not have an obvious resetting of materials. You tend to avoid closing doors, things falling that have to be erected, etc.

In Horizons, the AA scenes are usually about demonstrating various technologies in typical family situations, like the telepresence of the birthday party. It's not really important what they are saying as you see what is going on. The Great Movie Ride has a different slant, as you want to hear the recognizable voice of the actor the AA portrays and they speak to us. The Margaret Hamilton witch does that very well.
 

MiklCraw4d

Member
Unless someone asks me a question and I need to be informed, I generally avoid those videos. I saw the Nemo Sub ride video as I won't likely ever ride it.

Interesting... why not?

On the subject of ride videos, I agree. I usually avoid them unless there's something I'm incredibly curious about and don't have any real chance of riding anytime soon. There's just no way the average ride video can convey the atmosphere of a ride, the peripheral vision, and the details that lurk in the shadows in a ride's indoor segments. Dark rides just don't photograph well!
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Interesting... why not?

On the subject of ride videos, I agree. I usually avoid them unless there's something I'm incredibly curious about and don't have any real chance of riding anytime soon. There's just no way the average ride video can convey the atmosphere of a ride, the peripheral vision, and the details that lurk in the shadows in a ride's indoor segments. Dark rides just don't photograph well!

I used to ride everything, but in the last several years my claustrophobia has gotten to the point where I won't ride on Subs anymore. The other rides are fine.
 
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