Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

It's capitalism

Yes, and the simple fact that the parks are expensive in themselves makes that point, so not everyone can go in the first place. My point is that how everyone is treated and that it was the benchmark of success that you treat all like VIP's was powerful.

 

[SeaCastle]

Hey Eddie,

I'm wondering about your opinion of the train stations of Main Street, USA. Until recently, this was never something I paid attention to. I think the Magic Kingdom's is grander due to the increased size and scale of WDW's Main Street, while Disneyland has a more modest looking one, one that's less intimidating for guests. I'm not familiar with Disneyland Paris, but their station looks much different from its predecessors. Do you have any insight on this?

 

[flavious27]

That's why doing it as a DVC timeshare kind of project that allows public access from EPCOT to the PC public areas may make the most sense. Mixed use so to speak. "Progress City" is just another location in a proven DVC business model. That way you avoid all of the "rights of homeowners" issues you would get with a real City. When you are a part time "resident", the fun stays fresher, longer.

A mix of time share (DVC) and ownership/rental (celebration) would have been a model for progress city, the amount of units between the two is close to the amount in progress city. This is only possible after WDW was built and it created the demand in central florida.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A mix of time share (DVC) and ownership/rental (celebration) would have been a model for progress city, the amount of units between the two is close to the amount in progress city. This is only possible after WDW was built and it created the demand in central florida.

Yes, that's right. My proposal is how to do it as a current addition to EPCOT/WDW.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Stuff to check out.

Hey Eddie,

I'm wondering about your opinion of the train stations of Main Street, USA. Until recently, this was never something I paid attention to. I think the Magic Kingdom's is grander due to the increased size and scale of WDW's Main Street, while Disneyland has a more modest looking one, one that's less intimidating for guests. I'm not familiar with Disneyland Paris, but their station looks much different from its predecessors. Do you have any insight on this?

Here's some articles that should give you some insight. You'll see the evolution.

http://designingdisney.blogspot.com/2010/03/designing-main-street-usa-main-street.html

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2010/11/eddie-sotto-tribute-it-always-begin-by.html

http://disneyandmoreartwork.blogspot.com/

Let me know if you want to know more.

 

[flavious27]

I agree with the Fast Pass system in it's current state of operation. Let's see what happens in the future and if Disney starts a similar system to Universal and the paid Pass system. Disney does have some patents filed for just that and more. Who knows what the future will bring with the combo of RFID, FP and level of accomodations, DVC, D-23 and then throw in AP or PAP. The more money you spend the more FP's will be available to you???

The feeling of classism can be felt at the bus stop watching people getting on the bus for the Grand Floridian or Contemporary when you are going to the All Stars. I don't care where you are in society, social classes will always be there in some way and as always with money in the drivers seat! If you think about it, when Disneyland was opened you had tickets for the rides. You could only ride them if you had the money, if no money then no ticket and no ride! That is just like if you want to go on the Wild Animal Trek then you buy a ticket and go. Anybody can go as long as they pay. It's capitalism

Disney won't implement a two tier FP system, it will cause too many problems. As for classism at the parks, this happens before people even book their trips. The accommodations from the value resorts to deluxe are night and day. When people eat at the parks, their is a difference between the Liberty Inn and Le Cellier. At night some people will see the fireworks at 'Ohana and some will see some at the park. Or some people will catch a meal at Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Revue and some will at Yorkshire County Fish Shop. Later in the week some families will just ride the railroad at magic kingdom and some will take The Magic Behind Our Steam Trains tour. While some parents will spend to have their daughters to have the princess makeover and some will have them just wear a princess mouse hat.

 

[flavious27]

Here's some articles that should give you some insight. You'll see the evolution.

http://designingdisney.blogspot.com/2010/03/designing-main-street-usa-main-street.html

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2010/11/eddie-sotto-tribute-it-always-begin-by.html

http://disneyandmoreartwork.blogspot.com/

Let me know if you want to know more.

With Tangled being so popular with its opening weekend, do you think that a Rapunzel attraction will be added to the fantasyland expansion? Something that will include her tower will add a stunning visual element.

With how DSP was built and how the disneyland hotel effected the design of at once one if not both of your visions of the train station, was it an upper management decision to have it placed at the entrance?

 

[flavious27]

Yes, that's right. My proposal is how to do it as a current addition to EPCOT/WDW.

Any plans to build a progress city would also be the tallest building on property, which thankfully will take away that designation from the dolphin. With the Florida High Speed Line having a stop on property, it makes more sense to invest in a similar project that universal is doing in cali.

The only thing that I think is holding it back is the cost of adding a monorail spur. I have heard a cost of $100 million per mile; if wdi and Bombardier were able to design a track that costs between $5 - $15 million per mile, it would satisfy one of the biggest needs of park guests.

A new TTC at the corner of world drive and the epcot access road would make the most sense for future monorail expansion and also the transportation needs of a progress city project.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Any plans to build a progress city would also be the tallest building on property, which thankfully will take away that designation from the dolphin. With the Florida High Speed Line having a stop on property, it makes more sense to invest in a similar project that universal is doing in cali.

The only thing that I think is holding it back is the cost of adding a monorail spur. I have heard a cost of $100 million per mile; if wdi and Bombardier were able to design a track that costs between $5 - $15 million per mile, it would satisfy one of the biggest needs of park guests.

A new TTC at the corner of world drive and the epcot access road would make the most sense for future monorail expansion and also the transportation needs of a progress city project.

If they were to be built today, I'd rethink the look and plan.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

With Tangled being so popular with its opening weekend, do you think that a Rapunzel attraction will be added to the fantasyland expansion? Something that will include her tower will add a stunning visual element.

With how DSP was built and how the disneyland hotel effected the design of at once one if not both of your visions of the train station, was it an upper management decision to have it placed at the entrance?

I actually suggested putting a hotel above the ticketing cover, which in time evolved into a major hotel. I had pitched something more in scale with the street and only a few stories. Once the hotel bar was to look into the park, you could not have the station blocking it. The Hotel become the icon and the station the transition.

 

[flavious27]

I actually suggested putting a hotel above the ticketing cover, which in time evolved into a major hotel. I had pitched something more in scale with the street and only a few stories. Once the hotel bar was to look into the park, you could not have the station blocking it. The Hotel become the icon and the station the transition.

Okay, I did see some of the drafts you had including a glass building above the ticketing. It looked beautiful but I know it would have been too expensive. Do you know how your visions of the train station ended with the station that was built?

 

[flavious27]

If they were to be built today, I'd rethink the look and plan.

Of Progress City? Well the original plan would have taken up a huge amount of real estate. Do you think a design that would look like the Reston Town Center would work better? Though a move in that direction would work better in Downtown Disney by rebuilding most of the area with the stores and restaurants on the bottom 2 or 3 floors and apartments/dvc rentals above.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Okay, I did see some of the drafts you had including a glass building above the ticketing. It looked beautiful but I know it would have been too expensive. Do you know how your visions of the train station ended with the station that was built?

As you've seen in the articles there were stairways taken from EL Stations that were steel, and to add warmth the central lobby where the booth is, reflects delicate millwork and is wood over steel structure. A bit of a hybrid typical of how things were done then. The train station ended up being an elevated platform without the vertical iconic tower effect the other parks have. The gabled roof design or "crystal palace" didn't happen due to sightline conflicts with the hotel. It ended up low and long, as the coaches were also long. So to counter that lack of drama, I added the pass through facade that crossed the tracks framed to break it up more and provide a central focus. By crossing the tracks it appears larger and more important. the Band Organ and the stained glass make it fun too. Most pictures taken are of just that facade, so it has a presence. At the last minute, we got "Main Street USA" approved for the station sign (as opposed to "Euro Disneyland" which was on the hotel) so the land had it's own marquee.We have 3 portals as well so your symmetry is different too.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Of Progress City? Well the original plan would have taken up a huge amount of real estate. Do you think a design that would look like the Reston Town Center would work better? Though a move in that direction would work better in Downtown Disney by rebuilding most of the area with the stores and restaurants on the bottom 2 or 3 floors and apartments/dvc rentals above.

I really have not thought it through yet. Radial cities plans are not really that efficient, so I'd just look at the program for the project and go from there. My initial thought is to look at resorts and model up from that as it would likely be a timeshare kind of idea so maybe you could get away with radial shapes and things like that. The palm idea in Dubai was interesting as it was a layout and a symbol. I like the styling of Zaha Hadid or Santiago Calatrava. I'd ask them!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Interactive Queue

Kevin Yee reviews the new "interactive" queue for Winnie the Pooh at WDW. It seems to be a hit and passes the time for guests with toddlers. Maybe one of the biggest negatives, the line, is being turned around? That would be a huge win. WDI seems to be focused on some of the best things to solve. Great work!

(I'm with Kevin that Purell should sponsor it. What a germfest!)

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky113010a.htm

 

[HMF]

Kevin Yee reviews the new "interactive" queue for Winnie the Pooh at WDW. It seems to be a hit and passes the time for guests with toddlers. Maybe one of the biggest negatives, the line, is being turned around? That would be a huge win. WDI seems to be focused on some of the best things to solve. Great work!

(I'm with Kevin that Purell should sponsor it. What a germfest!)

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky113010a.htm

I don't know. Won't this hold lines up significantly?

 

[RSoxNo1]

With Tangled being so popular with its opening weekend, do you think that a Rapunzel attraction will be added to the fantasyland expansion? Something that will include her tower will add a stunning visual element.

With how DSP was built and how the disneyland hotel effected the design of at once one if not both of your visions of the train station, was it an upper management decision to have it placed at the entrance?

While it's likely not going to be ready with the rest of the expansion, I would think that Rapunzel is a strong candidate to be the theme around whatever Dark Ride replaced Snow White's Scary Adventures.

 

[flavious27]

As you've seen in the articles there were stairways taken from EL Stations that were steel, and to add warmth the central lobby where the booth is, reflects delicate millwork and is wood over steel structure. A bit of a hybrid typical of how things were done then. The train station ended up being an elevated platform without the vertical iconic tower effect the other parks have. The gabled roof design or "crystal palace" didn't happen due to sightline conflicts with the hotel. It ended up low and long, as the coaches were also long. So to counter that lack of drama, I added the pass through facade that crossed the tracks framed to break it up more and provide a central focus. By crossing the tracks it appears larger and more important. the Band Organ and the stained glass make it fun too. Most pictures taken are of just that facade, so it has a presence. At the last minute, we got "Main Street USA" approved for the station sign (as opposed to "Euro Disneyland" which was on the hotel) so the land had it's own marquee.We have 3 portals as well so your symmetry is different too.

I like that the band organ is an elegant way to keep the mystic of the castle from outside the park.

 

[flavious27]

I really have not thought it through yet. Radial cities plans are not really that efficient, so I'd just look at the program for the project and go from there. My initial thought is to look at resorts and model up from that as it would likely be a timeshare kind of idea so maybe you could get away with radial shapes and things like that. The palm idea in Dubai was interesting as it was a layout and a symbol. I like the styling of Zaha Hadid or Santiago Calatrava. I'd ask them!

I saw a documentary on the planning and building of the Sundial Bridge by Santiago. It is a radical and elegant design for a pedestrian bridge.

I know that DTD has been a consistent under performer and Hyperion Wharf shows a push for growth.

 

[flavious27]

While it's likely not going to be ready with the rest of the expansion, I would think that Rapunzel is a strong candidate to be the theme around whatever Dark Ride replaced Snow White's Scary Adventures.

Well it is not like we are not use to the magical walls being up at the parks.