Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

Cornfield mickey

This article on Jack Lindquist, the park's first marketing genius has a great story about a big idea that was hatched by looking out the window of a plane. Mickey's Cornfield. Is Duffy next?

http://miceage.micechat.com/suekruse/sk120910a.htm

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Queues.

Interesting article on queue design. We should take up that topic sometime.

http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/search/label/Tomorrowland

 

[DisneyMusician2]

The article is really interesting.

I also have concerns about the queue changes at HM, as I'm wondering if it will take away from some of the eerie feeling that they seem to achieve so well out there.

And the idea of the new super queue is fascinating as it may actually be more exciting than the rides themselves if the people designing them aren't careful...Just a thought.

 

[RandySavage]

It's what makes great attractions great. The cumulative effect (setup(queue)-->development(pre-show)-->climax(ride)). I think of it as one holistic system.

Think about some of the greatest attractions (IMO) ever built that do this brilliantly: Journey to the Center of the Earth, Indiana Jones Adventure, Haunted Mansion, Harry Potter, Tower of Terror, etc.

It is what draws people back to Disney, despite the costs. I also think it is a major reason why Hong Kong Disneyland has yet to reach its modest visitation targets. I don't think a single attraction at HKDL has that compelling & time-tested immersive queue & pre-show that consciously or subconsciously attract people to Disney parks.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Top 5 best and worst queues?

Takers? You must explain why as well. Of course, like Super Bowl commercials, some queues are as good if not better than the shows they precede.

 

[RandySavage]

That's tough, but off the top of my head:

5 (tie). Haunted Mansion & Pirates of the Caribbean, Magic Kingdom. HM for its brilliant stretching room and halls. POTC for its chilling, detailed, labyrinthine and awesome descent into the world of pirates.

4. (tie) Tower of Terror (MGM & TDS versions): Details on top of details. Perfect setting up of the story.

3. Harry Potter & Fobidden Journey, IOA: Among the very best design & technical effects. At 3 rather than 1 because of repetitiveness of character spiels.

2. Indiana Jones Adventure, DL, TDS: Directly replicates the adventures Dr. Jones might have in exploring temple ruins.

1. Journey to the Center of the Earth, TDS: The Terravators are a ride in themselves.

There are a bunch of other really great ones that deserve mentioning in a "top queue list", including Kali River Rapids, Everest, Splash Mountain Tokyo, MK's Space Mountain, Paris Haunted Mansion & PotC, IOA's extinct Dueling Dragons, Great Movie Ride (in setting up the films you are about to see), the extinct Living Seas (counting The Sea film & Hydrolators).

Five Worst... not sure I can list the five worst, as bland, cattle-gate switchbacks can be found all over Disney & Universal parks.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Good points- regarding Haunted Mansion- the queue before the ride portion is SO good that I never actually considered it a queue before! That inclusion caught me by surprise! Shows how well done it is.

 

[Mickey_777]

That's tough, but off the top of my head:

5 (tie). Haunted Mansion & Pirates of the Caribbean, Magic Kingdom. HM for its brilliant stretching room and halls. POTC for its chilling, detailed, labyrinthine and awesome descent into the world of pirates.

4. (tie) Tower of Terror (MGM & TDS versions): Details on top of details. Perfect setting up of the story.

3. Harry Potter & Fobidden Journey, IOA: Among the very best design & technical effects. At 3 rather than 1 because of repetitiveness of character spiels.

2. Indiana Jones Adventure, DL, TDS: Directly replicates the adventures Dr. Jones might have in exploring temple ruins.

1. Journey to the Center of the Earth, TDS: The Terravators are a ride in themselves.

There are a bunch of other really great ones that deserve mentioning in a "top queue list", including Kali River Rapids, Everest, Splash Mountain Tokyo, MK's Space Mountain, Paris Haunted Mansion & PotC, IOA's extinct Dueling Dragons, Great Movie Ride (in setting up the films you are about to see), the extinct Living Seas (counting The Sea film & Hydrolators).

Five Worst... not sure I can list the five worst, as bland, cattle-gate switchbacks can be found all over Disney & Universal parks.

Indy is an epic ride but the queue (from what I remember) is basically a cave with sticks and skulls. The area prior to getting in the jeep is spectacular though...still not sure it'd be #2

 

[HBG2]

That's tough, but off the top of my head:

5 (tie). Haunted Mansion & Pirates of the Caribbean, Magic Kingdom. HM for its brilliant stretching room and halls. POTC for its chilling, detailed, labyrinthine and awesome descent into the world of pirates.

4. (tie) Tower of Terror (MGM & TDS versions): Details on top of details. Perfect setting up of the story.

3. Harry Potter & Fobidden Journey, IOA: Among the very best design & technical effects. At 3 rather than 1 because of repetitiveness of character spiels.

2. Indiana Jones Adventure, DL, TDS: Directly replicates the adventures Dr. Jones might have in exploring temple ruins.

1. Journey to the Center of the Earth, TDS: The Terravators are a ride in themselves.

There are a bunch of other really great ones that deserve mentioning in a "top queue list", including Kali River Rapids, Everest, Splash Mountain Tokyo, MK's Space Mountain, Paris Haunted Mansion & PotC, IOA's extinct Dueling Dragons, Great Movie Ride (in setting up the films you are about to see), the extinct Living Seas (counting The Sea film & Hydrolators).

Five Worst... not sure I can list the five worst, as bland, cattle-gate switchbacks can be found all over Disney & Universal parks.

Your inclusion of the stretchroom and halls as part of the HM queue is interesting. I've always thought that the fact that you don't get into the actual ride conveyance until well into the attraction tempts you to think that everything before it is "queue." If that were the case, then the DL HM wins hands-down as having the best themed queue evah. But much as I delight in awarding blue ribbons to the Mansion, I don't think you can count anything inside the HM building as queue, because queue thematics have to be dispensable as a show element, virtually by definition. Otherwise, what happens on slow days, when a ride is a walk-on? But the foyer-stretchroom portion of the HM is indispensable for the show. You can't skip it. Ergo, it's not part of the queue.

Having said that, I do think the DL HM may have inadvertently inspired the fully-themed queue. By the time you board the doombuggy, you are totally immersed in the imaginative world of the ride. It must have occurred to Imagineers that it would be a good thing if guests were similarly immersed by the time they get into the conveyances of other rides.

Hmm...how to do it...how to do it...

The wheels turn, the light bulbs go on, the concept of the fully-themed queue pops out.

 

[ChrisFL]

Interesting indeed. What constitues a queue vs. not a queue. That is a valid definition I suppose, what gets skipped vs. what doesn't when the crowds are light.

Overall the idea of a queue has evolved greatly from the place you stand while waiting to get on-board to a fully-involved prelude to the storyline that awaits.

Top 5? hmm, that's difficult to judge.

Pirates in MK...It's good, but in the top 5? I'm not sure.

I'd put Everest above Pirates right now...but Everest is a unique example, because it nearly does have its own mini-land all to itself. Yes it's technically part of the larger "Asia" land in AK, but honestly it has a place of its own.

All of the other buildings, with the backpacks and the tour signs are all representative of that single attraction.

But most of the top 5 I will agree with:

5. Expedition: Everest
4. Tower of Terror (DHS and TDS)
3. Indiana Jones Adventure
2. Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey
1. Journey to the Center of the Earth

I'd also list as honorable mentions: At Universal Orlando. MIB, The Mummy (not higher ranked because the storyline is very messy), E.T. Adventure (still is very nice with the forest, the NASA guys, Botanicus coming out and talking to you)

At the Disney parks: The Living Seas would be right there on my list if it was still Seabase Alpha, Pirates (WDW), Rock'n'Roller Coaster (including the alley), the old Star Tours, Space Mountain (TDL, I love their new spaceship in the queue)



Now on the other hand, there are many queues at Disney that aren't very creative or immersive.

In fact, many of the Fantasyland queues are just plain waiting areas, Peter Pan's Flight for example is quite boring when you're in the long stretch over near the Columbia Harbor House.

However now there's the new Pooh queue...I saw it in person 2 weeks ago and it's VERY nice. I hope they can maintain the quality of it and make sure everything still works over the years. That part will be interesting.

While I'm thinking of it, another queue that's sorely disappointing to me is the Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin. Besides the Buzz animatronic, everything in that queue is just flat painted bits and a few minor things thrown in. I really think they could make that queue a LOT more interesting with just a small budget increase. Then again, that was still in the hack and slash Paul Pressler days.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Your inclusion of the stretchroom and halls as part of the HM queue is interesting. I've always thought that the fact that you don't get into the actual ride conveyance until well into the attraction tempts you to think that everything before it is "queue." If that were the case, then the DL HM wins hands-down as having the best themed queue evah. But much as I delight in awarding blue ribbons to the Mansion, I don't think you can count anything inside the HM building as queue, because queue thematics have to be dispensable as a show element, virtually by definition. Otherwise, what happens on slow days, when a ride is a walk-on? But the foyer-stretchroom portion of the HM is indispensable for the show. You can't skip it. Ergo, it's not part of the queue.

Having said that, I do think the DL HM may have inadvertently inspired the fully-themed queue. By the time you board the doombuggy, you are totally immersed in the imaginative world of the ride. It must have occurred to Imagineers that it would be a good thing if guests were similarly immersed by the time they get into the conveyances of other rides.

Hmm...how to do it...how to do it...

The wheels turn, the light bulbs go on, the concept of the fully-themed queue pops out.

Do they?

 

[ChrisFL]

I have two words to throw into that argument also....well it's kinda one word "FASTPASS"

 

[HBG2]

Do they?

I have two words to throw into that argument also....well it's kinda one word "FASTPASS"

Well, yeah. And FASTPASS is another monkey wrench (thx for bringing it up). On slow days, rainy days, rides can be a walk-on. If the queue really provides some necessary content for the ride experience, then what happens when people just whiz past it on the way to the boat? It wouldn't be fair to have them scratching their heads because they missed some show element located in the queue! So it seems to me that queue thematics, however desirable and enriching, must ultimately be dispensable. In fact, for this reason, I don't even want to count the Rod Serling TV stuff at the ToT as "queue," but maybe I'm going for too precise a definition.

 

[redshoesrock]

Well, yeah. And FASTPASS is another monkey wrench (thx for bringing it up).

I have to agree with the previous poster. With FASTPASS, Disney has essentially said that the build-up to an attraction via elements in the queue is not as important as getting on the attraction as fast as possible. Now whether you agree with that sentiment, that certainly is debatable.

 

[flavious27]

Your inclusion of the stretchroom and halls as part of the HM queue is interesting. I've always thought that the fact that you don't get into the actual ride conveyance until well into the attraction tempts you to think that everything before it is "queue." If that were the case, then the DL HM wins hands-down as having the best themed queue evah. But much as I delight in awarding blue ribbons to the Mansion, I don't think you can count anything inside the HM building as queue, because queue thematics have to be dispensable as a show element, virtually by definition. Otherwise, what happens on slow days, when a ride is a walk-on? But the foyer-stretchroom portion of the HM is indispensable for the show. You can't skip it. Ergo, it's not part of the queue.

Having said that, I do think the DL HM may have inadvertently inspired the fully-themed queue. By the time you board the doombuggy, you are totally immersed in the imaginative world of the ride. It must have occurred to Imagineers that it would be a good thing if guests were similarly immersed by the time they get into the conveyances of other rides.

Hmm...how to do it...how to do it...

The wheels turn, the light bulbs go on, the concept of the fully-themed queue pops out.

The TT queue is rather well designed, I think it is better than HM because you are not distracted by any other rides.

 

[RandySavage]

^ Not sure I follow the 'queue must be dispensable' position.

If someone speedwalks through the Indy queue in a couple minutes, the detail, sound fx, etc. are still setting up the story (versus if they walked to the projector room through an unthemed hallway). While a person who spends 30+ minutes in line (reading the maraglyphics, playing with the spike ceiling, listening to the scientist in the well, etc.) is getting a much richer experience from all the details, the zero-wait-time visitor is still experiencing the environment and the set-up of the story (your adventure is taking you deep into a lost temple).

In all the examples listed, the queue still completes the overall attraction, even if you breeze through it. Tower of Terror: You're entering a dusty, long-closed hotel. PotC: You're descending though dungeons and armories to the perpetual night of the pirate world. These transitions, as opposed to moving through a maze of cattle rails in a large room (e.g. Maelstrom), are key to the overall quality of the attraction.

I think the queue is indispensable in creating a great attraction.

 

[flavious27]

^ Not sure I follow the 'queue must be dispensable' position.

If someone speedwalks through the Indy queue in a couple minutes, the detail, sound fx, etc. are still setting up the story (versus if they walked to the projector room through an unthemed hallway). While a person who spends 30+ minutes in line (reading the maraglyphics, playing with the spike ceiling, listening to the scientist in the well, etc.) is getting a much richer experience from all the details, the zero-wait-time visitor is still experiencing the environment and the set-up of the story (your adventure is taking you deep into a lost temple).

In all the examples listed, the queue still completes the overall attraction, even if you breeze through it. Tower of Terror: You're entering a dusty, long-closed hotel. PotC: You're descending though dungeons and armories to the perpetual night of the pirate world. These transitions, as opposed to moving through a maze of cattle rails in a large room (e.g. Maelstrom), are key to the overall quality of the attraction.

I think the queue is indispensable in creating a great attraction.

The queues are what disney does the best, by discussing them, it reinforces that fact.

Off topic, there will not be a disney resort in brazil, it is far too dangerous. Just look at the problems that cropped up this year at the F1 race.

 

[HBG2]

^ Not sure I follow the 'queue must be dispensable' position.

If someone speedwalks through the Indy queue in a couple minutes, the detail, sound fx, etc. are still setting up the story (versus if they walked to the projector room through an unthemed hallway). While a person who spends 30+ minutes in line (reading the maraglyphics, playing with the spike ceiling, listening to the scientist in the well, etc.) is getting a much richer experience from all the details, the zero-wait-time visitor is still experiencing the environment and the set-up of the story (your adventure is taking you deep into a lost temple).

In all the examples listed, the queue still completes the overall attraction, even if you breeze through it. Tower of Terror: You're entering a dusty, long-closed hotel. PotC: You're descending though dungeons and armories to the perpetual night of the pirate world. These transitions, as opposed to moving through a maze of cattle rails in a large room (e.g. Maelstrom), are key to the overall quality of the attraction.

I think the queue is indispensable in creating a great attraction.

Good points. I should distinguish between contributions to ride content (backstory, introduction of characters, etc.) and contributions of mood, atmosphere, the overall feel of a certain time and place. It's only with regard to the first category that a queue must be dispensable, since circumstances may cause the riders to skip it.

Ultimately, you can see where all of this is headed: to the point where it is impossible to tell where queue ends and ride begins. It's all one thing from the moment you get in line. Which wouldn't be a bad thing. But you would still need to insure that riders get all the info they need to understand the show, and queue areas are going to be very limited in the portion of that burden that they can carry.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The queues are what disney does the best, by discussing them, it reinforces that fact.

Off topic, there will not be a disney resort in brazil, it is far too dangerous. Just look at the problems that cropped up this year at the F1 race.

I would say that in recent memory Universal Studios has done their queues better than Disney's. The fact that Disney is re-doing so many of their queues lately is a step in the right direction.

 

[flavious27]

I would say that in recent memory Universal Studios has done their queues better than Disney's. The fact that Disney is re-doing so many of their queues lately is a step in the right direction.

Yeah any refurbs at wdw for the rides is in the right direction.