Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

I liked the mega-theme idea. It did save a lot of room for the imagination. There's another way a story can become too much story in my opinion, though. You may find my post interesting because it mostly concerns Disneyland.

This is my post from another site:

Well said. I was told once by Dave Bradley, a legend in the amusement industry that "the best rides are the ones that happen to YOU". (Bradley owned one of the kiddielands Walt used to visit with his daughters and later hired him to help plan Disneyland) Story or no, if the ride feels like a book report or trailer for a movie, the experience isn't happening to us, we're just watching it uninvolved. Like impressionist paintings, great shows make us take the "dabs" of detail and story and use our own imaginations to complete the picture. A rule of screen writing is to be "implicit, not explicit". Don't say what you can show. Marc Davis designed situations that were funny and understood mostly without dialog, like a silent movie. Walt laughed when they were posed sketches! Many actors learned to just use their eyes, think the scene and say nothing, allowing the audience to imagine in their own words what they are feeling in highly emotive situations. the figures and scenes can also communicate implicitly. "Dead men tell no tales" echoing through the caves said it all for several scenes. We can only imagine what happened. When a spiel opts to tell you every little thing you are seeing, it is not as satisfying as getting a direction like "now we're heading into the true backwoods, keep a real sharp hunter's eye" then finding what is along the banks for yourself. Audiences like to be challenged. To me, that is less about story and more about great stage direction and using your "voice" sparingly so the audience can become involved.

 

[WDITrent]

Couldn't (or rather didn't) have said it better myself. Awesome examples. And I really think the Jean Laffite mega-theme wouldn't have shoved anything down one's throat. If anything, it would have just been more material to use your imagination with.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Couldn't (or rather didn't) have said it better myself. Awesome examples. And I really think the Jean Laffite mega-theme wouldn't have shoved anything down one's throat. If anything, it would have just been more material to use your imagination with.

That was always the intention and the 1G Imagineers that taught me, always recommended finding a good solid basis for what you were designing, and history has great stories and events that are worth weaving in. Like we said earlier, it gets you to go home and dig into the real story.

 

[wserratore1963]

:sohappy::sohappy:

Well said. I was told once by Dave Bradley, a legend in the amusement industry that "the best rides are the ones that happen to YOU". (Bradley owned one of the kiddielands Walt used to visit with his daughters and later hired him to help plan Disneyland) Story or no, if the ride feels like a book report or trailer for a movie, the experience isn't happening to us, we're just watching it uninvolved. Like impressionist paintings, great shows make us take the "dabs" of detail and story and use our own imaginations to complete the picture. A rule of screen writing is to be "implicit, not explicit". Don't say what you can show. Marc Davis designed situations that were funny and understood mostly without dialog, like a silent movie. Walt laughed when they were posed sketches! Many actors learned to just use their eyes, think the scene and say nothing, allowing the audience to imagine in their own words what they are feeling in highly emotive situations. the figures and scenes can also communicate implicitly. "Dead men tell no tales" echoing through the caves said it all for several scenes. We can only imagine what happened. When a spiel opts to tell you every little thing you are seeing, it is not as satisfying as getting a direction like "now we're heading into the true backwoods, keep a real sharp hunter's eye" then finding what is along the banks for yourself. Audiences like to be challenged. To me, that is less about story and more about great stage direction and using your "voice" sparingly so the audience can become involved.

 

[sublimesting]

Man, you need to tell me when you go, because I've never seen POTC without a long line.

I guess I was being figurative, but to me at WDW a line of about 5 minutes, or even up to 10 minutes counts as no line. POC rarely has a line more then 6 minutes ...at least from what I have seen.

 

[HMF]

Interesting thread about Jungle Cruise Audio loops.
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/144503-jungle-cruise-queue-music.html

 

[Vernonpush]

Interesting thread about Jungle Cruise Audio loops.
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/144503-jungle-cruise-queue-music.html

Is that the same Audio Loop that's available on Mousebits?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Interesting thread about Jungle Cruise Audio loops.
http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/144503-jungle-cruise-queue-music.html

The loops I heard on the YouTube links are the WDW loops which are entirely different from the ones at DL.

Here's the list of music selected for the DL JC.

http://www.disneymusicloops.com/dlr/dlr-adv-jc.html

 

[KevinYee]

Pirates historical reality + story discussion = me thinking about Carlos.

It's unusual for me to think that a Disney ride reached its heydey in the 2000s, but in the case of Pirates of the Caribbean (Disneyland), my favorite version is the one just prior to Jack Sparrow. The booming voice at the end, plus the skeletons, pointed out that piracy doesn't pay.

The Sparrow'ed version obviously loses that, but what it does that bothers me even more is render the balcony girl and Carlos scene illogical. Previously, the dunking of the mayor was to locate treasure, so it's logical that Carlos should resist.

But now? The pirate in question wants the location of Captain Jack. Why should Carlos shield Jack? The question takes on additional meaning when you realize that Jack is visible up ahead, having just climbed out of the window. If you pushed the metaphor, you might even think he just escaped from a tryst with the balcony girl. If balcony girl is Carlos's wife... wouldn't you think Carlos would WANT to give up Jack to the pirates?

I'm overreading and overreaching, I know, but this sort of thing doesn't happen in story-implied attractions (Davis attractions), let alone environment-attractions (skyway, autopia, PeopleMover, stagecoach, Mark Twain). Infusing a story means your story had better be airtight!

 

[HMF]

Pirates historical reality + story discussion = me thinking about Carlos.

It's unusual for me to think that a Disney ride reached its heydey in the 2000s, but in the case of Pirates of the Caribbean (Disneyland), my favorite version is the one just prior to Jack Sparrow. The booming voice at the end, plus the skeletons, pointed out that piracy doesn't pay.

The Sparrow'ed version obviously loses that, but what it does that bothers me even more is render the balcony girl and Carlos scene illogical. Previously, the dunking of the mayor was to locate treasure, so it's logical that Carlos should resist.

But now? The pirate in question wants the location of Captain Jack. Why should Carlos shield Jack? The question takes on additional meaning when you realize that Jack is visible up ahead, having just climbed out of the window. If you pushed the metaphor, you might even think he just escaped from a tryst with the balcony girl. If balcony girl is Carlos's wife... wouldn't you think Carlos would WANT to give up Jack to the pirates?

I'm overreading and overreaching, I know, but this sort of thing doesn't happen in story-implied attractions (Davis attractions), let alone environment-attractions (skyway, autopia, PeopleMover, stagecoach, Mark Twain). Infusing a story means your story had better be airtight!

Here is the short version "We needed to sell that Captain Jack Sparrow action figure to guests when they get off the ride so change the dialogue to mention him as much as possible". Forget about logic.
Same reason Davy Jones has to say his name half a dozen times during the ride.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Pirates historical reality + story discussion = me thinking about Carlos.

It's unusual for me to think that a Disney ride reached its heydey in the 2000s, but in the case of Pirates of the Caribbean (Disneyland), my favorite version is the one just prior to Jack Sparrow. The booming voice at the end, plus the skeletons, pointed out that piracy doesn't pay.

That was a huge deal to me. Getting the DMTNT line at the end was something I pushed for with Marty. He was getting all the PC fan mail at the time and I could see no end to it. Was the drinking and arson next? So if you "recalled" the Skeletons from the opening, then they make some sense as a foreshadowing or warning as to what will come later. They pay off. When you make that subtle hint at the end with the voice repeating over skeletons trying to take the treasure up the hill in vain, you get what it really means. Then you are not obliged to sanitize the fun of the show so much as they paid for it. He eventually agreed and when they redid the show Bob Baranick designed those scenes.

When I first started at WED there was nothing for me to work on so I went to the park to gin up work. David Mumford and I pushed an enhancement for POTC called "Pirates 20th" as it was 1987. We almost got real fire in the Ship's Cannons and the Arsenal! They did not go for it, but we had fun proposing some cool additions.

I wondered why Carlos would not give up Jack too. Figured he really didn't know where he was.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

"If ya can't say somthin' nice er ah"

Mouseplanet has a great article on the backstories of the Country Bear Jamboree. If you enjoyed the attraction, this is for you.

http://www.mouseplanet.com/9399/The_Lost_Biographies_of_the_Country_Bears

Footnote:

When I was at WDI, we proposed a "demented" and parody driven redo of the CBJ including music from "Homer and Jethro", these two country parody masters were actually some of the inspiration for the original show. Loved their work with Spike Jones. Did any of you grow up listening to Dr. Demento on the Radio? I did and loved the music.

 

[MarkTwain]

Mouseplanet has a great article on the backstories of the Country Bear Jamboree. If you enjoyed the attraction, this is for you.

http://www.mouseplanet.com/9399/The_Lost_Biographies_of_the_Country_Bears

Footnote:

When I was at WDI, we proposed a "demented" and parody driven redo of the CBJ including music from "Homer and Jethro", these two country parody masters were actually some of the inspiration for the original show. Loved their work with Spike Jones. Did any of you grow up listening to Dr. Demento on the Radio? I did and loved the music.

After reading some less-than-favorable reviews of the Country Bears in its current state, I've been pondering recently some different ways Disney could refurbish the CBJ while remaining true to its original intent. I wonder if it would be possible to feature some newer country music that we would consider "classic" today, in the way that the Ballad of Davey Crockett was a more recent pop-culture song in 1971. The only song I can think of off the top of my my head is "American Pie," but then I know practically nothing about country music (wish I did). I wonder if this would be tasteful or even successful? They could keep some of the more iconic songs like Blood on the Saddle or the finale song.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Pitch Games

There's a good article dealing with Walt's philosophy on carnival games. Jim states that carnival operators advised Walt and he never listened to them, but Dave Bradley (kiddieland operator) told Walt that Carnival games were a scam and not to do them, so in some cases he listened. Do pitch games belong at Disney?

http://www.yesterland.com/games.html

 

[Master Yoda]

There's a good article dealing with Walt's philosophy on carnival games. Jim states that carnival operators advised Walt and he never listened to them, but Dave Bradley (kiddieland operator) told Walt that Carnival games were a scam and not to do them, so in some cases he listened. Do pitch games belong at Disney?

http://www.yesterland.com/games.html

IMHO anything that is fun belongs in Disney. The roadside carnival and the games and attraction that go with them are a part of American History. I hit the fair every year with my family and we love the bad food, cheesy attractions, and most of all the carnival games. The things we hate are the carnies and the the fact that the attractions look like they are going to fly apart at any second. The carnival attractions at Disney remove what I don't like and keep the elements that I do.

 

[janoimagine]

The things we hate are the carnies and the the fact that the attractions look like they are going to fly apart at any second.

Austin Powers: Only two things scare me and one of them is nuclear war.
Basil Exposition: What's the other?
Austin Powers: Excuse me?
Basil Exposition: What's the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.


Sorry to jack the thread, I had to laugh when I saw Yoda's post.

 

[jhastings74]

Eddie, can you shed any light on if CM's who work at Disney and propose ideas, is there the same kind of legal difficulty as someone who is outside of the company. I know there's the Disney Inventors program for smaller ideas, but it would be nice to have a more open place for imagineering ideas to come out of the CM's who work there.

From what I remember from all of the paperwork during Traditions, there is a specific form that must be signed when hired stating basically that all of your ideas for new attractions, improvements to old attractions, park upgrades...anything...while you are in costume on Disney Property belong to the Walt Disney Corporation...

 

[janoimagine]

That is pretty much an SOP with any creative company, especially advertising and marketing firms.

 

[Alektronic]

There used to be a program called "I Have A Idea" and basically you submitted paperwork detailing your idea, big or small, and if it was a good idea then they rewarded you with money. Even if it was just a cost cutting idea or improvement. Of course, then it became the company's property but, at least, you were recognized and rewarded for it.

 

[T-1MILLION]

There used to be a program called "I Have A Idea" and basically you submitted paperwork detailing your idea, big or small, and if it was a good idea then they rewarded you with money. Even if it was just a cost cutting idea or improvement. Of course, then it became the company's property but, at least, you were recognized and rewarded for it.

And not only that along with the passion it shows you have for the company...it would look good in the future that you have these ideas and passion under your belt. A good investment.

There needs to be something like that again. Someone needs to write "My idea is to bring back the "I have an idea" campaign" Heh. Sad, but true.