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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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HMF

Well-Known Member
Edit: upon reflection, I feel sad for Tim Delaney, who obviously poured a lot of work and heart into that entrance. But ultimately I don't think it works. Despite all the handmade tiles and so on, it still comes across like painted flat, and that makes the entrance look sort of cheap.
I get the feeling that Tim went along with it to keep his job not because he necessarily agreed with it but I could be wrong.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
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Steve,

I'm pretty sure this is related to deleted posts, but when did the changeover happen that we're left with a bunch of extra pages at the end of each thread? Is there any way to stop this from happening?
 
Although I'm a little mystified by the suggestion that the tombstones-of-the-future "Leave a Legacy" monoliths were intended to make the entrance to Epcot less austere.
I seem to remember reading somewhere, can't remember where or who said it, that at one point the monoliths were meant to be constructed of lucite and lit from within. I think water was involved somehow as well. Eddie, do you know anything about this, or am I crazy?
 
I get the feeling that Tim went along with it to keep his job not because he necessarily agreed with it but I could be wrong.
Tim was proud of what he did especially for the money he did it for. I'm sure there are things about it he may have wanted to do that he couldn't. They had a very low budget to do the entrance, a tiny fraction of what they are spending to redo it today. Tim jumped in and took on the challenge of the entrance and the park icon. He was able to propose an idea that was very creative and unique that they could afford, a feat that the other solutions could not accomplish. He seized the rules they laid out and played the game well. Not everyone likes the entrance as it turned out, but you do see lots of guests posing with the giant letters. It's not easy to embrace an abstract theme like California so the postcard seemed like a great solution and the integration of the monorail was a great idea too.
 
Two questions Eddie,

Did you design the Alice Land/Attractions at TDL and could you list the Disney parks other than DLP where your work can be seen? Thanks.
Design is collaborative in many cases. Creative executives are responsible for what are called "portfolios" of work. So I would creatively oversee design certain parks and their projects. You are also responsible to generate new projects and staff them. I was involved in directing the design of other Imagineers and guide the creative intent of my projects. These projects were presented to the next person up the ladder for approval and so on. I am a designer at heart, so in many cases I would sketch and develop an idea in tandem with the others and or direct in that way. In the case of Indiana Jones, I worked as a designer on several versions over many years, including the one they finally built, but that was overseen primarily by Tony in the end.

Some of the projects beyond DLP I was creatively responsible for were....

Disneyland

Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye concept design.
Adventureland Redo
Storybookland Enhancements
Aladdin's Oasis
Fantasmic! Esplanade
Audio Enhancements
Master Planning Attraction Proposals
Space Mountain Fedex Enhancements- onboard Audio

WDW

Space Mountain Fedex Enhancements
Mission:Space conceptual design
World Showcase Proposals
Pal Mickey
Steam Train Voice overs
Videopolis Dance Club

TDL

Master Planning- Sci-Fi City and New Fantasyland
Monorail Station
Pooh's Hunny Hunt
Queen of Hearts Banquet Hall
Alice's Tea Party
Tiki Room rehab
World Bazaar Interiors

Concept Studio

ABC Times Square Studios NYC
Interactive ride technologies- online worlds
Encounter Restaurant At LAX

This is a partial list and there are tons of things that cannot be mentioned.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Design is collaborative in many cases. Creative executives are responsible for what are called "portfolios" of work. So I would creatively oversee design certain parks and their projects. You are also responsible to generate new projects and staff them. I was involved in directing the design of other Imagineers and guide the creative intent of my projects. These projects were presented to the next person up the ladder for approval and so on. I am a designer at heart, so in many cases I would sketch and develop an idea in tandem with the others and or direct in that way. In the case of Indiana Jones, I worked as a designer on several versions over many years, including the one they finally built, but that was overseen primarily by Tony in the end.

Some of the projects beyond DLP I was creatively responsible for were....

Disneyland

Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye concept design.
Adventureland Redo
Storybookland Enhancements
Aladdin's Oasis
Fantasmic! Esplanade
Audio Enhancements
Master Planning Attraction Proposals
Space Mountain Fedex Enhancements- onboard Audio

WDW

Space Mountain Fedex Enhancements
Mission:Space conceptual design
World Showcase Proposals
Pal Mickey
Steam Train Voice overs
Videopolis Dance Club

TDL

Master Planning- Sci-Fi City and New Fantasyland
Monorail Station
Pooh's Hunny Hunt
Queen of Hearts Banquet Hall
Alice's Tea Party
Tiki Room rehab
World Bazaar Interiors

Concept Studio

ABC Times Square Studios NYC
Interactive ride technologies- online worlds
Encounter Restaurant At LAX

This is a partial list and there are tons of things that cannot be mentioned.
That is quite a list of accomplishments. I had no idea you were involved in so many projects. I asked about Alice because I just found pictures of the land on line as I had somehow overlooked it. I guess I just thought it was an area similar to Paris. But I have to say Imagineering did an amazing job with that project. The approach to the area and the forced perspective is amazing looking, almost abstract. Perfect for Fantasyland and cutting edge game changing design IMO. It was the same reaction I had when I first saw the FLE artwork and if they have improved on that it will truly be something that enchants young and old alike.

Thanks for the response, I'm sure a lot of folks here are fascinated by the list and again we are fortunate you are willing to spend time here letting us get an inside look at a fascinating process.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Tim was proud of what he did especially for the money he did it for. I'm sure there are things about it he may have wanted to do that he couldn't. They had a very low budget to do the entrance, a tiny fraction of what they are spending to redo it today. Tim jumped in and took on the challenge of the entrance and the park icon. He was able to propose an idea that was very creative and unique that they could afford, a feat that the other solutions could not accomplish. He seized the rules they laid out and played the game well. Not everyone likes the entrance as it turned out, but you do see lots of guests posing with the giant letters. It's not easy to embrace an abstract theme like California so the postcard seemed like a great solution and the integration of the monorail was a great idea too.
I think a lot of people really do see Delany's original entrance as a success. The biggest failing, in my opinion, is the surrounding and name attached to the project. It seems as if there are a lot of people who wish the concept, at the least in part, could be moved to some place to welcome people to the state, such as one of the local airports.
 
Steve,

I'm pretty sure this is related to deleted posts, but when did the changeover happen that we're left with a bunch of extra pages at the end of each thread? Is there any way to stop this from happening?
That's a common bug, it's been around for years. Honestly, it seems like it's in every thread sometimes.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Tim was proud of what he did especially for the money he did it for. I'm sure there are things about it he may have wanted to do that he couldn't. They had a very low budget to do the entrance, a tiny fraction of what they are spending to redo it today. Tim jumped in and took on the challenge of the entrance and the park icon. He was able to propose an idea that was very creative and unique that they could afford, a feat that the other solutions could not accomplish. He seized the rules they laid out and played the game well. Not everyone likes the entrance as it turned out, but you do see lots of guests posing with the giant letters. It's not easy to embrace an abstract theme like California so the postcard seemed like a great solution and the integration of the monorail was a great idea too.
But the thing that Tim has going against him is how he shamelessly defended the finished product. A lot of people blamed Tim for the failure as he designed the 2 areas that are getting the biggest makeovers. (Sunshine Plaza and Paradise Pier) Personally, I don't think it is fair to hold those against him but some do and I do wonder if that might have been why he "left to pursue other opportunities". Once again I don't know the man like you do so this is all speculation on my part.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
In any case, the ones who REALLY seem to hate WDW are DL fans. I mean, wow, its the same company folks. :shrug:
They don't hate WDW. Disneyland fanatics had to watch their park mis-managed and budgets cut and declining maintenance for years.
WDW is having the same problem right now and the DL people see shades of what happened to Disneyland and thus criticize WDW. It's not hate it's called Passion. When you are passionate about something and something you don't like is happening to it you be vocal about it. Without Passion WDW Or Disneyland probably would not exist in the first place sinceDisneyland was basically built by Walt Disney's passion to create a kind of place hat no one knew would succeed.
 
WDW makes them a fortune, they don't hate it. The parks that are failing get the most improvement.
WDW does make them a fortune it just seems that they dont want to push the limit with it anymore....i mean DL gets World of Color and WDW gets......Captain EO....you would think the Wizarding World of Harry Potter would make Disney want to try to make WDW better.
 
WDW does make them a fortune it just seems that they dont want to push the limit with it anymore....i mean DL gets World of Color and WDW gets......Captain EO....you would think the Wizarding World of Harry Potter would make Disney want to try to make WDW better.
They are doing the new Fantasyland project and who knows what the program will end up being. BTW- WDW got DAK and DL got DCA. Now they are redoing DCA. DL has not had a new "E ticket" ride since Indy in the 1980's.
 
But the thing that Tim has going against him is how he shamelessly defended the finished product. A lot of people blamed Tim for the failure as he designed the 2 areas that are getting the biggest makeovers. (Sunshine Plaza and Paradise Pier) Personally, I don't think it is fair to hold those against him but some do and I do wonder if that might have been why he "left to pursue other opportunities". Once again I don't know the man like you do so this is all speculation on my part.
Tim did his best with the money they gave him, which was not enough for a traditional Disney project. You could argue that he could have walked away from doing it if it was to be inferior, but that is not realistic. You expect someone to defend their work. He is to be applauded for taking on the challenge and getting lots of bang for very few bucks. It clearly was not enough no matter how well he stretched things. Look at the budget being spent on the redo. They are many times the dollars per square foot to what Tim had. New Facades, signage, games, everything. The fact that they are spending so much on placemaking this go round after being so undercapitalized the first time, sheds a hard light on where the problems really lie.
 
WDW doesn't need the World of Color.


It's possible, but I doubt it dents them much.
WDW needs something like World of Color....illuminations is old and boring, Wishes in boring, Fantasmic is average....

Revenue wise it might not hurt them much but creatively speaking it is killing Disney....Disney has not done something that inclusive to WDW in god....20 years.
 
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