Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

It would be nice to finally do a lush Pirate themed project. Something that is less expected and more authentic. I have a small attraction in mind but just have to find the time to develop it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was asked recently to cite an example where Tony and I disagreed on something.

He was working on the final boarding bridges for Star Tours and said that they were going to paint the outside of the Simulator/Starspeeder cab as a black light mural on the Speeder. I guess there were issues with weight and adding dimension. I argued that doing a black light mural on the sides of the speeder might look cheesy, and worse, betray the whole motion base trick? Tony loves black light rides and Indiana Jones uses it extensively. His point was that because of the bright light spilling through the open doors from the interior of the cabin (making the surroundings seem darker) and the mindset of the guest, (they will have seen the big one in the preshow and won't question the simple version, and just want to rush inside) that they will ignore the visual and just stampede in. He was right. Most guests don't stop to examine the exterior, they just race through the doors. A good lesson in that everything lives in a context and you can try and use that context to inform what will work. We need to walk through entire scenes and sense what the guest will sense and design for that. Well researched magic tricks can work if applied properly.It takes courage to try those things because they don't always work if even one element is not properly lined up or the lighting is off. It's safer to just build everything for real and not to push the limits of the magic. Tony's example caused me to want to solve that way and gave me the courage to roll the dice on doing the forced perspective hedge maze and Castle on the Queen of Hearts Restaurant in TDL.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Tony's example caused me to want to solve that way and gave me the courage to roll the dice on doing the forced perspective hedge maze and Castle on the Queen of Hearts Restaurant in TDL.

After looking at pictures of the Queen of Heart's Banquet Hall online, it makes me want to take a trip to TDL just to dine there!

Were there any noteworthy concessions made with the design of the restaurant? I'm thinking somebody might have toyed with the idea of real plants/hedges and a transparent ceiling.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

After looking at pictures of the Queen of Heart's Banquet Hall online, it makes me want to take a trip to TDL just to dine there!

Were there any noteworthy concessions made with the design of the restaurant? I'm thinking somebody might have toyed with the idea of real plants/hedges and a transparent ceiling.

Not really. Real hedges would have been hard to keep up and the fake ones were better in that you can paint shadows and force the perspective better. We talked skylights but again, you can control the lighting better with a constant level. There are minor things I would do differently given another chance, but overall it's been a huge hit and stayed that way. Our design team did a great job. The team made concessions between the show elements and the operational considerations of a restaurant, that was it.

 

[Skippy's Pal]

This also brings up a "whole 'nother" topic: Just exactly how good the Diney Magazine was.

To me the loss of the Disney Magazine itself just reminds me of another example of how shortsighted thinking (perhaps by MBAs thinking that they are "building a brand" that is modern and responsive to the bottom line in the short-term) undermines the long-range real value of the name and legacy. Some things build more than a "brand" (which is burnt onto things), but unstead build a NAME and real loyalty over years, by pointing out and constantly "telling the story" of an amazing organization. It inspires people and brings long-term loyalty.

The Disney Magazine started life as the Magic Kingdom Club newsletter, sent to members who signed up at work (usually offered "free" to employees who wanted it, as a corporate benefit that included the newsletter and a discount on tickets, hotels, and merchandise at the resorts). Over time, after about 30 years, they changed the MK Club to be a fee-based "Disney Club" (about $40 for membership), and slicked up the magazine (including offering it to the public) which came "free" with the $40 membership.

Of course the fee-based Disney Club did not do as well as the MK Club had, and it folded soon afterward. But the slick "Disney" magazine, by then sold at stores, stayed on, and in addition to subscribers and purchasers at stores, was given "free" to guests in the Disney resort hotels.

Over time, they decided to kill it, offering subscribers an option to switch to their "Family Fun" magazine.

I was an MK Club member, as had been my mother in her work many years ago. It originally offered a nominal discount to WDW on tickets and hotels, and helped drive a decision to go. The newsletter helpded, but I really enjoyed the new Disney magazine as things evolved. It really fed the Disney loyalty, and was well-done.

But I should have seen the writing on the wall when they created it by starting to charge for the new renamed Disney Club that brought about the color magazine. They were greedy and looking too closely for profits over long-term loyalty.

Later they shuttered the magazine itself, arguing that it did not contribute to the bottom line. It had "too many complimentary subscriptions" (at the hotels). They did not see the long-term value of product like this, which builds up the legacy and, with articles like the Tony Baxter article, sows seeds that germinate into loyalty to a company perceived to be worth the investment. Those seeds not only fell among the loyal Disney fans that sought them out, but in complimentary copies and newstand copies could be seen by casual fans (excellent advertising for the movies and resorts).

The decision to kill the Disney Magazine came from the same mentality that changed the well-balanced Disney Channel to the short-sighted pre-teen quarterly-profit machine it has become.

Anyhow, the Disney Magazine was good, and worth having... for fans and for the company.

Thank you for resurrecting these good memories! I remember being in the MK Club, then paying for the short-lived Disney Club, and treasuring the magazines (which I still have). Hung in with D23 for a couple of years, but also got frustrated with how much I was paying for what amounted to movie publicity in the quarterly magazine. The MK Club, and even the Disney Club, made me feel part of something, made me feel wanted. Now I just feel......squeezed and used.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Thank you for resurrecting these good memories! I remember being in the MK Club, then paying for the short-lived Disney Club, and treasuring the magazines (which I still have). Hung in with D23 for a couple of years, but also got frustrated with how much I was paying for what amounted to movie publicity in the quarterly magazine. The MK Club, and even the Disney Club, made me feel part of something, made me feel wanted. Now I just feel......squeezed and used.

Interesting thoughts about the old MKC making you feel wanted. As a kid those mags were something I hoped were even thicker. Back then there was so few access points to information too. I guess you really have to make insider info truly insider and not just hype. Good post.

 

[darthspielberg]

A question has occurred to me for you, good Sir Sotto. Was there ever any involvment or words from Steven Spielberg when it came to the creation of the Indiana Jones or was it purely a George Lucas thing? I know Steven does consulting for Universal, so I imagine there could have been some professional issues there, but I imagine hearing his thoughts might have been enlightening/cool.

This just came from me trying to make up for having never been to Disneyland with YouTube videos. It's not working.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A question has occurred to me for you, good Sir Sotto. Was there ever any involvment or words from Steven Spielberg when it came to the creation of the Indiana Jones or was it purely a George Lucas thing? I know Steven does consulting for Universal, so I imagine there could have been some professional issues there, but I imagine hearing his thoughts might have been enlightening/cool.

This just came from me trying to make up for having never been to Disneyland with YouTube videos. It's not working.

Not that I know of. Tony did most of those Indy meetings in private with Lucas, although I met George when we were doing Tomorrowland. Spielberg was hired for Indy, so it was George's property. I know we met with Steven on the "Roger Rabbit" Attraction in the very early stages to understand the movie better as it was in production. He was very nice and excited by meeting with us. I remember him taking us through the movie with a book of storyboards. We went to the UK to see the animators too. But that was kept very secret because Spielberg was so involved with Universal.

 

[MouseketeerCole]

I was asked recently to cite an example where Tony and I disagreed on something.

He was working on the final boarding bridges for Star Tours and said that they were going to paint the outside of the Simulator/Starspeeder cab as a black light mural on the Speeder. I guess there were issues with weight and adding dimension. I argued that doing a black light mural on the sides of the speeder might look cheesy, and worse, betray the whole motion base trick? Tony loves black light rides and Indiana Jones uses it extensively. His point was that because of the bright light spilling through the open doors from the interior of the cabin (making the surroundings seem darker) and the mindset of the guest, (they will have seen the big one in the preshow and won't question the simple version, and just want to rush inside) that they will ignore the visual and just stampede in. He was right. Most guests don't stop to examine the exterior, they just race through the doors. A good lesson in that everything lives in a context and you can try and use that context to inform what will work. We need to walk through entire scenes and sense what the guest will sense and design for that. Well researched magic tricks can work if applied properly.It takes courage to try those things because they don't always work if even one element is not properly lined up or the lighting is off. It's safer to just build everything for real and not to push the limits of the magic. Tony's example caused me to want to solve that way and gave me the courage to roll the dice on doing the forced perspective hedge maze and Castle on the Queen of Hearts Restaurant in TDL.

Thanks for the really great example, Eddie. I'm always really impressed with Star Tours because, as you say, seeing that full sized Starspeeder programs into your mind the ride vehicle you're boarding when you load. I remember letting my eyes adjust for the first time many years ago and seeing how box-shaped the actual simulator is. It's wonderful misdirection.

 

[ChrisFL]

Not really. Real hedges would have been hard to keep up and the fake ones were better in that you can paint shadows and force the perspective better. We talked skylights but again, you can control the lighting better with a constant level. There are minor things I would do differently given another chance, but overall it's been a huge hit and stayed that way. Our design team did a great job. The team made concessions between the show elements and the operational considerations of a restaurant, that was it.

Not to mention the food there is EXCELLENT!!

 

[prberk]

Interesting thoughts about the old MKC making you feel wanted. As a kid those mags were something I hoped were even thicker. Back then there was so few access points to information too. I guess you really have to make insider info truly insider and not just hype. Good post.

Cannot agree with you more. The old Disney formula of "Clubs" and insider treatment was a lesson in business to many. And it went all the way back to Walt's original "Mickey Mouse Clubs" that were held in movie theatres (before the TV show). The key was making you feel like an insider.

Yes, there was "synergy" and "suggestive selling," but it wasn't so blatant. And you actually got real value and a sense of ownership in return.

As an adult it was the MK Club and even the Disney Club, with its new slicker magazine, and discounts, really gave you feel like like you were "in the know" and valued. They knew that that fed loyalty -- and ultimately corporate security and higher grosses. But there is a line that they have crossed lately, it seems, to tear away at that. They have taken the truly nice Disney magazine and replaced it with Spam called the "Disney Insider" e-mail that comes across clearly as advertising material. And forget the discounts.

They don't seem to understand the business school ideaas that their own company created.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The key was making you feel like an insider.

Yes, there was "synergy" and "suggestive selling," but it wasn't so blatant. And you actually got real value and a sense of ownership in return.

They have taken the truly nice Disney magazine and replaced it with Spam called the "Disney Insider" e-mail that comes across clearly as advertising material.

I don't like the Blue Sky Cellar at DCA because it sort of pseudo-insider marketing. Plus, we all know that WDI comes up with a lot of really creative stuff which never sees the light of day, plus DCA 1.0 was sort of the anti-Disney in terms of Imagineering and pushing the envelope.

Plus, I think that really great rides, like Indy/Carsland, get fans thinking about WDI and it acquires this mythical sheen, but when they use that reputation to try to pump up the rep of DCA 1.0 and to promote (in my mind anyway) borderline attractions like World of Color and Mermaid . . . it kinda degrades the WDI brand.

Of course, Blue Sky Cellar was meant to be a preview center like for WDW before it opened, but the vibe is that "everything we do is magical and amazing" is sort of putting the horse before the carriage in that these attractions haven't opened yet and may receive mediocre reviews. The concept art of World of Color is great, the show less so, IMHO.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

In other news, Michael Colglazier was touring Fantasyland with Tom Fitzgerald, including Alice. Maybe they'll finally re-build the descending ramp for the ride and take down the scaffolding.

Seems like a "must-do" project, as well as a "no-brainer" given that all they need to design is ramp with railings, I guess an organic plant theme would work the best, they could even add some glowing tullips/mushrooms or something for some night appeal. I think that DL's past president didn't complete this project as it makes his balance sheet record look better.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

In other news, Michael Colglazier was touring Fantasyland with Tom Fitzgerald, including Alice. Maybe they'll finally re-build the descending ramp for the ride and take down the scaffolding.

Seems like a "must-do" project, as well as a "no-brainer" given that all they need to design is ramp with railings, I guess an organic plant theme would work the best, they could even add some glowing tullips/mushrooms or something for some night appeal. I think that DL's past president didn't complete this project as it makes his balance sheet record look better.

I heard somewhere that the redo of that ramp was already a "go" and that it was going to be "fold down" railings as to not spoil the look.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I heard somewhere that the redo of that ramp was already a "go" and that it was going to be "fold down" railings as to not spoil the look.

There was also a rumor on Miceage that the bridges in StorybookLand were going to feature railings that would pop-up if guests need to make an exit, and for maintenance worker safety. When Miceage covered the Storybook refurb they said that the pics show the hardware being installed for this . . . which obviously didn't happen.

OSHA made comments that it is unsafe for maintenance workers on the elevated outside portions of Alice, but there is also the issue of guest safety should the vehicles lose power/breakdown for a significant amount of time. I doubt they would ask exiting guests/maintenance workers to bend down and lift up some protective rail as this could cause the accident they are trying to prevent.

So, I kinda doubt that Disney would build some sort of hydraulic rail system, which I figure would need to be activated before regular maintenance workers/guests walk on the track. Too expensive and unpractical.

The could make the whole path a vine with folded "leaves" that comes up around the edges (maybe 3 feet?), fits in with the outside theme of being shrunk down in size. That would make sense thematically, you're in a caterpillar ride vehicle which slides up and down these leaves (like on a vine with the leaves pointed upwards), maybe they could add fake "dew" drops on the outside. For a "wow factor" the sides of the leaves could be made to be semi-transparent like real leaves, and they could add sections of the vine which wraps around the tree in the load area, and on the castle-wall a bit.

 

[flynnibus]

Pop up railings are usually made with so you use a pole/rod to pull them up (because they usually are recessed and you can't just grab them). They use a hand tool (think like a cane or trash grabber), grab the rail and pull it up with a rowing motion. No need to worry about bending over, or hydraulics, etc.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Guests are never unloaded on the rails/vine part. The caterpillars have to come down for the guests to be unloaded.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Guests are never unloaded on the rails/vine part. The caterpillars have to come down for the guests to be unloaded.

I've been stuck on the outside portion myself as a guest, had to wait a good 15 minutes if not longer, but the ride started up again. The unprobable, but still possible, safety issue is a power loss to the resort, or something other mechanical function stranding a caterpillar for a length of time too long for guests to remain in them, or some sort of emergency necessitating guests leaving the caterpillar. At least I'm assuming this is the issue as OSHA wouldn't allow the old people mover to be built tomorrow in Disneyland because if the power stops, and you can't get it back on, you'd have to evacuate dozens of guests off of elevated portions of track . . . with little ways to do this safely.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I've been stuck on the outside portion myself as a guest, had to wait a good 15 minutes if not longer, but the ride started up again. The unprobable, but still possible, safety issue is a power loss to the resort, or something other mechanical function stranding a caterpillar for a length of time too long for guests to remain in them, or some sort of emergency necessitating guests leaving the caterpillar. At least I'm assuming this is the issue as OSHA wouldn't allow the old people mover to be built tomorrow in Disneyland because if the power stops, and you can't get it back on, you'd have to evacuate dozens of guests off of elevated portions of track . . . with little ways to do this safely.

The chances of the ride not starting up at all again are very slim to none. Alice is guaranteed to break down at least once a day. Not once has the ride not started up again, and if it does, there are maintenance people on hand to start the ride back up.

The guests stay in the caterpillars as long as it takes. I remember the first time Alice broke down on me, it took 45 minutes for me to start the ride back up, with some of the guests still in the caterpillars.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The chances of the ride not starting up at all again are very slim to none. Alice is guaranteed to break down at least once a day. Not once has the ride not started up again, and if it does, there are maintenance people on hand to start the ride back up.

The guests stay in the caterpillars as long as it takes. I remember the first time Alice broke down on me, it took 45 minutes for me to start the ride back up, with some of the guests still in the caterpillars.

Of course, a 45 minute delay, could be catastrophic for a guest. Think about a person stuck on the leaves who is having a heart attack, seizure, panic attack . . . would kinda be nice to be able to walk the whole track safely. I think OSHA might point to the fact that the ride "breaks down" with some frequency, and the potential difficulty in safely removing guests. Obviously, we're talking about a chance occurrence, but it is better to be prepared. With a roller coaster, gravity does the job of returning the car to a low, and often accesible point, not so with Alice.