Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[lazyboy97o]

The "Liberty Arcade" opposite, was the appropriate pre-show leading to Frontierland and the western expansion.

Before visiting, a part of me thought it was sort of sacrilege to rearrange the layout of Disneyland's Cardinal Realms. But then I actually made the transition from Main Street, USA right into Frontierland and it seemed so natural and fluid, like it always should have been there.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hi. This brief tidbit was posted about Walt and Admiral Joe Fowler, a big name in early Disney history. Great short story.
http://www.disneyhistoryinstitute.com/2013/02/walt-and-walt-disney-world.html

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Hi. This brief tidbit was posted about Walt and Admiral Joe Fowler, a big name in early Disney history. Great short story.
http://www.disneyhistoryinstitute.com/2013/02/walt-and-walt-disney-world.html

Well, well, well. Paul F. Anderson, eh? I guess he decided to finally come out of his cave a few years ago with this blog. Too bad he's still tainted with the whole Persistence of Vision financial debacle that cost hundreds of loyal fans (such as myself) lots and lots of subscription moolah.

Outstanding Disney historian? Absolutely.

Excellent business man? Not so much.

 

[Omnispace]

Well, well, well. Paul F. Anderson, eh? I guess he decided to finally come out of his cave a few years ago with this blog. Too bad he's still tainted with the whole Persistence of Vision financial debacle that cost hundreds of loyal fans (such as myself) lots and lots of subscription moolah.

Outstanding Disney historian? Absolutely. Excellent business man? Not so much.

That sounds all too familiar. Should we start a support group? In all fairness though, I don't think he ever cashed my check.

I'm glad that The "E" Ticket turned out to be a much better experience -- those Jansen guys put out an awesome publication!

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

That sounds all too familiar. Should we start a support group? In all fairness though, I don't think he ever cashed my check.

You were fortunate, then. Many of us had given Paul money and received a handful of issues before he shut down. We didn't get refunds for the remaining issues we didn't receive, and he never responded to inquiries about the missing issues or refunds.

I basically let it go since it wasn't a huge amount of cash. But others took it pretty hard and wanted his mouse ears on a platter. Paul went underground for a very long time because of it. I'm a bit surprised he decided to surface a few years ago. I guess his love of Disney is just too great!

I'm glad that The "E" Ticket turned out to be a much better experience -- those Jansen guys put out an awesome publication!

You got that right! I loved The E-Ticket! And thanks to Diane Disney Miller and the WDFM for buying them out and putting their remaining back issues in the Gift Shop for sale! I was able to pick up a few that were missing from my collection. Another great Disney fan publication I definitely miss.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Holy Waltergate! I just now realized that I never got my remaining issues of Persistance of Vision! HEY!!!!

 

[Omnispace]

Holy Waltergate! I just now realized that I never got my remaining issues of Persistance of Vision! HEY!!!!

LOL! I think I was mostly just disappointed. The excerpts of his articles on the Disney shows at the World's Fair seemed like they were very insightful -- I was hoping to read more about it. Fortunately we now have the exceptional NYWF64.com.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Holy Waltergate! I just now realized that I never got my remaining issues of Persistance of Vision! HEY!!!!

I hope you didn't also have a subscription to Tales from the Laughing Place like I did. If so, I have some bad news for you...

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I really love the way the lands at Disneyland Paris each have such strong identities and yet sort of melt into each other. My favorite is the transition between Adventureland and Fantasyland. Peter Pan's Flight leads into the Jolly Roger and Skull Rock, which is just south of Pirates of the Caribbean.

It's one of the bigger "small things" that make DLP so beautiful! Same transition of sorts from Adventureland to Frontierland, just done with landscaping.

 

[Omnispace]

I was reading some interesting articles about the history of EPCOT this morning and came across this quote from Marty Sklar:

“The big thing was that we decided we had to test the water, so we held what we called The Epcot Future Technology Forums, starting in 1976,” Sklar said. “Ray Bradbury [the noted science fiction writer who contributed to Epcot's communication theme] was the first speaker. And we invited people from academia, from government, from corporations and just smart people that we found through our research and it was really fascinating because we had these long discussions."

To me this exemplifies the earnest ambition that poured into the EPCOT Center project. It would have been incredible to sit in on these discussions and listen to some of the ideas that came up. Certainly things change over time, (the tile of the article is "The Future is a Moving Target"), but it would be really great if Disney continued to consult such futurist minds.

The article goes on to talk about how General Motors' team really kick-started the momentum to move forward with the project. I'm hoping that their recent involvement in the new Test Track will ignite the rebirth of rest of the park.

To the ARTICLE >>>

_

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was reading some interesting articles about the history of EPCOT this morning and came across this quote from Marty Sklar:

“The big thing was that we decided we had to test the water, so we held what we called The Epcot Future Technology Forums, starting in 1976,” Sklar said. “Ray Bradbury [the noted science fiction writer who contributed to Epcot's communication theme] was the first speaker. And we invited people from academia, from government, from corporations and just smart people that we found through our research and it was really fascinating because we had these long discussions."

To me this exemplifies the earnest ambition that poured into the EPCOT Center project. It would have been incredible to sit in on these discussions and listen to some of the ideas that came up. Certainly things change over time, (the tile of the article is "The Future is a Moving Target"), but it would be really great if Disney continued to consult such futurist minds.

The article goes on to talk about how General Motors' team really kick-started the momentum to move forward with the project. I'm hoping that their recent involvement in the new Test Track will ignite the rebirth of rest of the park.

To the ARTICLE >>>

_

Excellent Article and also shows how involved Marty was in getting EPCOT organized as a project. It is a good footnote to the discussion a few pages back about who was more influential, Hench or Sklar.

 

[Omnispace]

Excellent Article and also shows how involved Marty was in getting EPCOT organized as a project. It is a good footnote to the discussion a few pages back about who was more influential, Hench or Sklar.

Based on what little I know about the two men I would guess that when they combined their endeavors they complimented each other with Marty Sklar taking the more literary approach to the concept and John Hench being the more visual and design-oriented person. Certainly, involving Ray Bradbury and creating a series of "Epcot Future Technology Forums" takes the more literary approach to generating ideas.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Based on what little I know about the two men I would guess that when they combined their endeavors they complimented each other with Marty Sklar taking the more literary approach to the concept and John Hench being the more visual and design-oriented person. Certainly, involving Ray Bradbury and creating a series of "Epcot Future Technology Forums" takes the more literary approach to generating ideas.

I'd like to see video of those forums and hear and see what was said. this looks interesting.
http://epcotexplorer.tumblr.com/post/25933633239/the-prologue-and-the-promise-tale-of-two

And this especially.
http://epcotexplorer.tumblr.com/post/18132866507/dick-nunis-revisionist-history-and-the-myth-of

 

[Omnispace]

I'd like to see video of those forums and hear and see what was said. this looks interesting.
http://epcotexplorer.tumblr.com/post/25933633239/the-prologue-and-the-promise-tale-of-two

And this especially.
http://epcotexplorer.tumblr.com/post/18132866507/dick-nunis-revisionist-history-and-the-myth-of

Wow! Who's writing these articles?! I love the first one about the EPCOT Theme Center. It seems like a much more realized version of the ultimate EPCOT Center that was built. CommuniCore sees to have originally had a much greater role in presenting the themes of the park than it's ultimate incarnation did. The World City model sounds like it would have been a lot like the Progress City model that graced the second floor of Disneyland's Carousel of Progress. I still think that model restored to its original form would be a wonderful exhibit at Epcot though it may just be my selfish yearning to experience that impressive presentation again.

There's been a lot of controversy and discussion on how the company changed Walt Disney's idea for a city to a theme park -- how they purported that the WDW Resort was actually E.P.C.O.T. realized. When I read articles like this it becomes apparent in a lot of ways that at least for the first 20 years or so of WDW, the high ambitions of the E.P.C.O.T. project really drove the standards of what was constructed there. The concept of moving people about the property with a clean transportation system, utilizing the latest developments in technology to improve operations, the layout of resorts and parks as "nodes" with green space between them were all influenced by it.

 

[Omnispace]

I'd like to see video of those forums and hear and see what was said.

Do you think that they might have videotaped the forums? It would be a fascinating find.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/17/3993058/destiny-bungie-first-look-preview
Just read this article about Bungie's next game, Destiny. Thought this blurb about game design relates quite well to theme park design.

THE SEVEN PILLARS OF DESIGN

A world players want to be in. "This is a question players ask themselves," Jason Jones says when approaching a new universe. "‘Do I want to be in this world? Is it cool? Do I want to stay here?’ That led us to create a world full of mystery that people can explore."
A bunch of fun things to do. Bungie calls Destiny "a sandbox with a lot of tools" that puts players in situations "where they can be successful." Jones says Bungie has been deliberate about creating a broad range of activities for players to enjoy in groups or alone, in casual or intense scenarios.
Rewards players care about. "Imagine you could spend an hour and accomplish something," Jones says. "We have a lot of great things [in Destiny] to find, earn and make. Everything you do generates these rewards to customize your character."
A new experience every night. Bungie wants players to have a different experience every time they play, planning rare, time-limited and emergent activities. Jones hopes that players will sign on for a game of Destiny, but get distracted by the variety of content and activities within.
Shared with other people. "Everything that’s fun to do is more fun with other people," Jones says. "Even if you do play solo — which is a totally valid way to play — you’re going to see other people in your game."
Enjoyable by all skill levels. "We want everybody who wants to play, to play. If you have the basic coordination to play a shooter," Bungie says, you can play Destiny.
Enjoyable by the tired, impatient and distracted. Bungie believes that players don’t play games to "work hard, read or go the internet to figure out our bull." The core experience, Jones says, has to be delivered as simply and easily as possible. And that pillar led Bungie to "throw out a bunch of dearly-held ideas."

 

[PeterAlt]

Excellent Article and also shows how involved Marty was in getting EPCOT organized as a project. It is a good footnote to the discussion a few pages back about who was more influential, Hench or Sklar.

This is something I just don't get. Obvious, before his death, Walt Disney had his massive team in a secret wardroom planning in great detail the Florida Project, with the city of EPCOT as its centerpiece. Decades later, Marty Sklar would say that he is haunted by "that painting". He was talking about one of Walt's concept art drawings for the original EPCOT city concept. The reality was that there was more than just a "painting". There were models and blue prints. By the late 70's, the fact that all the work done ten years earlier was ignored as if it didn't happen, virtually starting over, is an enigma and baffling, at best.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

This is something I just don't get. Obvious, before his death, Walt Disney had his massive team in a secret wardroom planning in great detail the Florida Project, with the city of EPCOT as its centerpiece. Decades later, Marty Sklar would say that he is haunted by "that painting". He was talking about one of Walt's concept art drawings for the original EPCOT city concept. The reality was that there was more than just a "painting". There were models and blue prints. By the late 70's, the fact that all the work done ten years earlier was ignored as if it didn't happen, virtually starting over, is an enigma and baffling, at best.

I love your Avatar. Death Star Rules!

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is something I just don't get. Obvious, before his death, Walt Disney had his massive team in a secret wardroom planning in great detail the Florida Project, with the city of EPCOT as its centerpiece. Decades later, Marty Sklar would say that he is haunted by "that painting". He was talking about one of Walt's concept art drawings for the original EPCOT city concept. The reality was that there was more than just a "painting". There were models and blue prints. By the late 70's, the fact that all the work done ten years earlier was ignored as if it didn't happen, virtually starting over, is an enigma and baffling, at best.

Master Planning can take a good bit of time and its possible, if not likely, that Disney expected partners in the project to contribute to the design of the individual buildings.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Saw an article on Miceage about a pirates themed restaurant (non-Disney) in France,

http://micechat.com/21969-pirates-paradise-restaurant-in-france-rivals-disney-eateries/

Somewhat similar to a concept of a Pirates restaurant in a galleon that Eddie had for Disneyland, and to past plans for a next generation pirate ride that allows guests to disembark half-way through the ride to experience a village full of pirates or a restaurant. The video shows some pretty interesting lighting effects, if kinda crude compared to more subtle effects seen in DL's Pirates/Blue Bayou.