Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

Hello Eddie,
I have been reading a lot of comments lately that the Avatar inspired project is on "life support" and a lot of people seem really happy about it. I will not go into all the various reasons and arguments as that is not the question I am driving at.

For me, this expansion is about creating a place of fantasy. (Which to my mind is what Disney has always pursued.) Both a Beastly Kingdom land and an Avatar inspired land would do that. However, one gets a lot more support then the other. Do you think that if Disney announced a new expansion, and that James Cameron had been asked to help inspire the concept it would be better accepted by Disney fans rather then saying they are creating a land based on Avatar?

It's hard to know that answer, but Avatar is out there and you can critique it. So I really think what you are asking is weather it is Cameron as a creative force or the property of Avatar that is objectionable. I'd say Cameron is less an issue as in the case of assisting WDI would be informed by the limitations of execution in a theme park. I'm not sure he brings much to the party that could not be hatched internally. I'd rather know John Lassiter was involved or maybe George Lucas. Frankly, its beyond me that a Star Wars themed expansion is not happening. It's already bigger than anything Avatar will ever do. Why can't I go to Mos Eisley right now? I don't wanna hear that it is about money, as they pay 200m plus to do Carsland. Star Wars beats them all cross generationally. It could be its own Resort. No brainer. If the company announced a new Star Wars Resort and attraction connected to DHS with bubble city water slides and stuff, do you not think that the fans would go nuts?

A big IF..lf they never get serious about making EPCOT into what it needs to be and it declines another ten years and just becomes a joke, I would pitch remaking EPCOT into the new Star Wars hotel and ride park and remaking the ball into the Death Star impregnated with LED so every night the rebels blow it up. XWing ride inside, All new theming. Move Star Tours into Body Wars building and retheme, Communicore would be redone as Mos Eisley with the Cantina, and be the gateway for a bunch of new and exciting shows. Treetop hotels with the Ewoks, etc. Ice planet hotel. Etc. World Showcase would be rethemed into a series of SW off world resort villages with different facades, alien stage shows, Jabbas beasts and stuff. You'd visit all the planets and colonies. Sign me up right now!

All of this got me thinking. Maybe EPCOT needs to begin anew as the Community of Tomorrow that Walt wanted. We have settled for the Experimental Prototype Carnival of Tomorrow and parts of it became beloved, but what of Walt's real dream of a Future City? Could you ever get there with band aids and remodels? No. Not that what we have was not done well and a noble effort, it was. I like EPCOT, but wonder if you can ever get "there" from "here"?

If they remade the old park into SW and then designed a 21st Century "Progress City" take on his dream in Lake Buena Vista or elsewhere, that would finally do the concept justice. Not a theme park, but a timeshare, resort hybrid or some other mixed use business model that supports the kind of model city type arrangement. Up until now, we have a theme park that does not live up to it's financial expectations because it was born, not to innovate the future as a model, but to exploit it and hopefully sell edutainment as a fair. Every time they try and pull in attendance by adding a populist event, it betrays the purity of the mission. To be honest, because of it's business plan, it was prevented from being great at either. Attractions that captured it's essence like Horizons are gone, not because they had the wrong message, but because they did not draw enough crowds or lost their sponsor. EPCOT as an idea is trapped in the wrong body. I think the idea needs to be reborn in a new one that has a business model that allows it to be a laboratory of innovation and growth. That place we were all promised where you can stay and experience what's next.

 

[Lee]

I don't wanna hear that it is about money, as they pay 200m plus to do Carsland.

Hah!
You low-balled that one.
Well north of $300m, I'm told.:brick:

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It's hard to know that answer, but Avatar is out there and you can critique it. So I really think what you are asking is weather it is Cameron as a creative force or the property of Avatar that is objectionable. I'd say Cameron is less an issue as in the case of assisting WDI would be informed by the limitations of execution in a theme park. I'm not sure he brings much to the party that could not be hatched internally. I'd rather know John Lassiter was involved or maybe George Lucas. Frankly, its beyond me that a Star Wars themed expansion is not happening. It's already bigger than anything Avatar will ever do. Why can't I go to Mos Eisley right now? I don't wanna hear that it is about money, as they pay 200m plus to do Carsland. Star Wars beats them all cross generationally. It could be its own Resort. No brainer. If the company announced a new Star Wars Resort and attraction connected to DHS with bubble city water slides and stuff, do you not think that the fans would go nuts?

A big IF..lf they never get serious about making EPCOT into what it needs to be and it declines another ten years and just becomes a joke, I would pitch remaking EPCOT into the new Star Wars hotel and ride park and remaking the ball into the Death Star impregnated with LED so every night the rebels blow it up. XWing ride inside, All new theming. Move star tours into body wars building and retheme, Communicore would be redone as Mos Eisley with the cantina, and be the gateway for a bunch of new and exciting shows. Treetop hotels with the Ewoks, etc. Ice planet hotel. Etc. World Showcase would be rethemed into a series of SW off world resort villages with different facades, alien stage shows, Jabbas beasts and stuff. You'd visit all the palents and colonies.

All of this got me thinking. Maybe EPCOT needs to begin anew as the Community of Tomorrow that Walt wanted. We have settled for the Experimental Prototype Carnival of Tomorrow and parts of it became beloved, but what of Walt's real dream of a Future City? Could you ever get there with band aids and remodels? Not that what we have was not done well and a noble effort, it was. I like EPCOT, but wonder if you can ever get "there" from "here"?

I also wondered why they didn’t build Mos Eisley; after seeing the changes they made in Disney Studios by adding Tatooine Traders, I kind of thought that some sort of expansion would inevitably happen. A richly themed Star Wars-land with appropriate berms to block outside vistas, would be uber-popular. Since Tatooine was prominently featured in the new Episodes, as well as the old, it has a cross-generational appeal similar to Harry Potter.

I think that the reason that Star Wars-land hasn’t happened is the same reason why they lost Harry Potter, contract issues over who builds it and who gets how much of the profits. Carsland was a no brainer as Cars is suited to themed rides and since Disney already owns this property, it was relatively easy to green-light (especially since John Lasseter pushed the button). Interestingly, it seems that disputes between Cameron and Disney may lead to Avatarland getting axed. With Episodes 7,8 and 9 to be filmed in the future, the Star Wars franchise still has longer legs.

Should IOA’s new Harry Potter train start pulling guests away from Disney in significant numbers, then maybe they’ll figure that they need to invest in Star Wars just to compete and will throw Lucas an olive branch, or whatever is needed. Since Star Tours 2.0 was finally done, maybe something is on the back-burner.

Wow, that Star Wars makeover for Epcot certainly is exciting, though I hope that if they expand upon the the Star Wars theme they would build a new theme park or land as it is hard to retrofit something and make it look exactly like you want it. I doubt that World Showcase will ever be repurposed as the pavilions were meticulously created to look like different countries, and all that work would be lost if those fascades were torn down.

What might work would be a ‘Death Star’ project on Spaceship Earth, complete with a laser than emanates from it and ‘blows-up’ something during some sort of Star Wars show at night. A night time Star Wars parade with lightsabers, characters, would be pretty cool as well.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Hah!
You low-balled that one.
Well north of $300m, I'm told.:brick:

Isn't $200-300 million the budget of just Radiator Springs Racers?

 

[John]

It's hard to know that answer, but Avatar is out there and you can critique it. So I really think what you are asking is weather it is Cameron as a creative force or the property of Avatar that is objectionable. I'd say Cameron is less an issue as in the case of assisting WDI would be informed by the limitations of execution in a theme park. I'm not sure he brings much to the party that could not be hatched internally. I'd rather know John Lassiter was involved or maybe George Lucas. Frankly, its beyond me that a Star Wars themed expansion is not happening. It's already bigger than anything Avatar will ever do. Why can't I go to Mos Eisley right now? I don't wanna hear that it is about money, as they pay 200m plus to do Carsland. Star Wars beats them all cross generationally. It could be its own Resort. No brainer. If the company announced a new Star Wars Resort and attraction connected to DHS with bubble city water slides and stuff, do you not think that the fans would go nuts?

A big IF..lf they never get serious about making EPCOT into what it needs to be and it declines another ten years and just becomes a joke, I would pitch remaking EPCOT into the new Star Wars hotel and ride park and remaking the ball into the Death Star impregnated with LED so every night the rebels blow it up. XWing ride inside, All new theming. Move star tours into body wars building and retheme, Communicore would be redone as Mos Eisley with the cantina, and be the gateway for a bunch of new and exciting shows. Treetop hotels with the Ewoks, etc. Ice planet hotel. Etc. World Showcase would be rethemed into a series of SW off world resort villages with different facades, alien stage shows, Jabbas beasts and stuff. You'd visit all the palents and colonies.

All of this got me thinking. Maybe EPCOT needs to begin anew as the Community of Tomorrow that Walt wanted. We have settled for the Experimental Prototype Carnival of Tomorrow and parts of it became beloved, but what of Walt's real dream of a Future City? Could you ever get there with band aids and remodels? Not that what we have was not done well and a noble effort, it was. I like EPCOT, but wonder if you can ever get "there" from "here"?

If they remade the old park into SW and then designed a 21st Century "Progress City" take on his dream in Lake Buena Vista or elsewhere, that would finally do the concept justice. Not a theme park, but a timeshare, resort hybrid or some other mixed use business model that supports the kind of model city type arrangement. Up until now, we have a theme park that does not live up to it's financial expectations because it was born, not to innovate the future as a model, but to exploit it and hopefully sell edutainment as a fair. Every time they try and pull in attendance by adding a populist event, it betrays the purity of the mission. To be honest, because of it's business plan, it was prevented from being great at either. Attractions that captured it's essence like Horizons are gone, not because they had the wrong message, but because they did not draw enough crowds or lost their sponsor. EPCOT as an idea is trapped in the wrong body. I think the idea needs to be reborn in a new one that has a business model that allows it to be a laboratory of innovation and growth. That place we were all promised where you can stay and experience what's next.

WOW! "Go big or go home" is what I always say. But I think economically that would be prohibitive. In todays dollar value your talking a lot of zeros. Not to mention that you would probably have to close EPCOT completely to pull it off.....for how long? I dont think they could take that kind of loss.

I am not the worlds biggest Star Wars fan but the more I think about the concept of a SW themed land the more I like it and the more I wonder...why not? I mean the possibilities are endless. The thought of a SW resort even excites me as a mild mannered fan. If they could somehow put it in DHS and connect the resort like Boardwalk to EPCOT...would be HUGE! The merch possiblities alone make it a no brainer. SW franchise fans are some of the most loyal fans there are. To only get WDW/starwars exclusive merch would be worth the trip alone. M&G's....are you kidding me. It would take so little of a creative process....it is already done. Heck even I could create a great SW themed land.

It is stareing them right in the face.....A Potter swatter? It would be a UNI swatter! Broad appeal? Done....merch? Done fan base....done...the return on investment? endless. To be honest it has to be one of the most baffleing things I can think of when it comes to decsions by Disney. As far as theme parks go they own the rights and dont use it to its fullest potental....I just dont get it.

 

[Lee]

Isn't $200-300 million the budget of just Radiator Springs Racers?

I've heard $350m for RSR alone. (Budgets are no obstacle for Skipper John's pet projects.:lol

 

[Eddie Sotto]

WOW! "Go big or go home" is what I always say. But I think economically that would be prohibitive. In todays dollar value your talking a lot of zeros. Not to mention that you would probably have to close EPCOT completely to pull it off.....for how long? I dont think they could take that kind of loss.

I am not the worlds biggest Star Wars fan but the more I think about the concept of a SW themed land the more I like it and the more I wonder...why not? I mean the possibilities are endless. The thought of a SW resort even excites me as a mild mannered fan. If they could somehow put it in DHS and connect the resort like Boardwalk to EPCOT...would be HUGE! The merch possiblities alone make it a no brainer. SW franchise fans are some of the most loyal fans there are. To only get WDW/starwars exclusive merch would be worth the trip alone. M&G's....are you kidding me. It would take so little of a creative process....it is already done. Heck even I could create a great SW themed land.

It is stareing them right in the face.....A Potter swatter? It would be a UNI swatter! Broad appeal? Done....merch? Done fan base....done...the return on investment? endless. To be honest it has to be one of the most baffleing things I can think of when it comes to decsions by Disney. As far as theme parks go they own the rights and dont use it to its fullest potental....I just dont get it.

I hope it's the most expensive thing they ever do. You can actually save money by closing part of EPCOT as you save labor and operating cost. You can draw guests to the other parks to keep them on property. Remember that a lot of the cost of building any theme park is the infrastructure. In the case of EPCOT, you have the parking lot, the show buildings and more. It's more like doubling the DCA redo but with a much more marketable fix. I'd try and take advantage of as much existing facility as possible without compromising the idea. The giant "Death Star" with a ride in it would be awesome. You could fly "Starship"drones in and out of it by night! Figure 8 to 10 rides and a high end Resort hotel to open.

Maybe adapt the tank from Seas into an Underwater SW City like in the films. Land's hardware morphs into a Treetop hotel and a TSI style Ewok forest play area. Reuse TestTrack as a Cars Ride at DHS. Mission:Space Centrifuge could become a Millennium Falcon hyperspace adventure where you are in the gun turret. Pod Racer show on the lagoon. I'd close Futureworld right after doing one of those famous "last chance to see it" summer promotions, then open a preview center of the real super wow EPCOT CITY in the works. World Showcase can stay open as an amenity to DHS and the Boardwalk while the Star Wars overlay is happening across the lagoon. Once Phase 1 of SW opens, you close WS and add the other "off world" resort hotels, rides and shopping. That's just my take on the how. Cha-ching a ding ding. Mega bucks but very wisely spent. If you're gonna swing for the fences, I cannot think of a safer and cooler bet. Universal is spending big and your win is their loss. Remember there are hotels woven into all of these SW worlds, so it's a new amazing level of experience.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Isn't $200-300 million the budget of just Radiator Springs Racers?

I've heard $350m for RSR alone. (Budgets are no obstacle for Skipper John's pet projects.:lol

Plus Al Lutz reported that Mater's Junkyard Jamboree (the spinner) was a $100M attraction!

 

[John]

I hope it's the most expensive thing they ever do. You can actually save money by closing part of EPCOT as you save labor and operating cost. You can draw guests to the other parks to keep them on property. Remember that a lot of the cost of building any theme park is the infrastructure. In the case of EPCOT, you have the parking lot, the show buildings and more. It's more like doubling the DCA redo but with a much more marketable fix. I'd try and take advantage of as much existing facility as possible without compromising the idea. The giant "Death Star" with a ride in it would be awesome. You could fly "Starship"drones in and out of it by night! Figure 8 to 10 rides and a high end Resort hotel to open.

Maybe adapt the tank from Seas into an Underwater SW City like in the films. Land's hardware morphs into a Treetop hotel and a TSI style Ewok forest play area. Reuse TestTrack as a Cars Ride at DHS. Mission:Space Centrifuge could become a Millennium Falcon hyperspace adventure where you are in the gun turret. Pod Racer show on the lagoon. I'd close Futureworld right after doing one of those famous "last chance to see it" summer promotions, then open a preview center of the real super wow EPCOT CITY in the works. World Showcase can stay open as an amenity to DHS and the Boardwalk while the Star Wars overlay is happening across the lagoon. Once Phase 1 of SW opens, you close WS and add the other "off world" resort hotels, rides and shopping. That's just my take on the how. Cha-ching a ding ding. Mega bucks but very wisely spent. If you're gonna swing for the fences, I cannot think of a safer and cooler bet. Universal is spending big and your win is their loss. Remember there are hotels woven into all of these SW worlds, so it's a new amazing level of experience.

WOW WOW WOW....is all I can say, sure would give a new meaning to futureworld wouldnt it? as blue sky as it sounds I guess theoretically it is plausable.
A little worried what kind of pushback you would get from the EPCOT faithful (includeing myself) ? Funny thing is I think it would see a return of investment, where as I am not so sure about Avaar. Avater to me hasnt shown the sustainability with just one movie.

I guess Mr Sotto thats why these companies pay you the big bucks. But why couldnt they do a Lucasland over at DHS? Seems to me they could have their cake and eat it to. Are you of the opinion that EPCOT is dieing a slow death? Or do you see the fact that EPCOT needs a large influx of cash for a "update"...so why not this?

You know theme parks and you also know DIsney, where did it go wrong? Did they spread themselves out to thin? No matter how big and profitable the company is there is only so much cash to go around. It seems abvious that building DLP and HKDL took from the pie. It seems that the whole Parks division has grown to a behemoth proportions. Where is the vision? DO they honestly have a plan? I mean EPCOT is becoming a PI disaster on a EPIC scale.


I think you have a great idea, but not sure the powers to be has the ....for a lack of a better term ( not really but this is a family forum) wherewithall to pull the trigger on a project like this. ....what would we do with all that film of Walt with his pointer showing us the model of EPCOT?

 

[IlikeDW]

It's hard to know that answer, but Avatar is out there and you can critique it. So I really think what you are asking is weather it is Cameron as a creative force or the property of Avatar that is objectionable. I'd say Cameron is less an issue as in the case of assisting WDI would be informed by the limitations of execution in a theme park. I'm not sure he brings much to the party that could not be hatched internally. I'd rather know John Lassiter was involved or maybe George Lucas. Frankly, its beyond me that a Star Wars themed expansion is not happening. It's already bigger than anything Avatar will ever do. Why can't I go to Mos Eisley right now? I don't wanna hear that it is about money, as they pay 200m plus to do Carsland. Star Wars beats them all cross generationally. It could be its own Resort. No brainer. If the company announced a new Star Wars Resort and attraction connected to DHS with bubble city water slides and stuff, do you not think that the fans would go nuts?

A big IF..lf they never get serious about making EPCOT into what it needs to be and it declines another ten years and just becomes a joke, I would pitch remaking EPCOT into the new Star Wars hotel and ride park and remaking the ball into the Death Star impregnated with LED so every night the rebels blow it up. XWing ride inside, All new theming. Move Star Tours into Body Wars building and retheme, Communicore would be redone as Mos Eisley with the Cantina, and be the gateway for a bunch of new and exciting shows. Treetop hotels with the Ewoks, etc. Ice planet hotel. Etc. World Showcase would be rethemed into a series of SW off world resort villages with different facades, alien stage shows, Jabbas beasts and stuff. You'd visit all the planets and colonies. Sign me up right now!

All of this got me thinking. Maybe EPCOT needs to begin anew as the Community of Tomorrow that Walt wanted. We have settled for the Experimental Prototype Carnival of Tomorrow and parts of it became beloved, but what of Walt's real dream of a Future City? Could you ever get there with band aids and remodels? No. Not that what we have was not done well and a noble effort, it was. I like EPCOT, but wonder if you can ever get "there" from "here"?

If they remade the old park into SW and then designed a 21st Century "Progress City" take on his dream in Lake Buena Vista or elsewhere, that would finally do the concept justice. Not a theme park, but a timeshare, resort hybrid or some other mixed use business model that supports the kind of model city type arrangement. Up until now, we have a theme park that does not live up to it's financial expectations because it was born, not to innovate the future as a model, but to exploit it and hopefully sell edutainment as a fair. Every time they try and pull in attendance by adding a populist event, it betrays the purity of the mission. To be honest, because of it's business plan, it was prevented from being great at either. Attractions that captured it's essence like Horizons are gone, not because they had the wrong message, but because they did not draw enough crowds or lost their sponsor. EPCOT as an idea is trapped in the wrong body. I think the idea needs to be reborn in a new one that has a business model that allows it to be a laboratory of innovation and growth. That place we were all promised where you can stay and experience what's next.

And if they Still want to use video screens onthe deathstar/X-wing experience let it be more like this technology

http://youtu.be/oGa1Q7NvsI0

 

[Eddie Sotto]

WOW WOW WOW....is all I can say, sure would give a new meaning to futureworld wouldnt it? as blue sky as it sounds I guess theoretically it is plausable.
A little worried what kind of pushback you would get from the EPCOT faithful (includeing myself) ? Funny thing is I think it would see a return of investment, where as I am not so sure about Avaar. Avater to me hasnt shown the sustainability with just one movie.

I guess Mr Sotto thats why these companies pay you the big bucks. But why couldnt they do a Lucasland over at DHS? Seems to me they could have their cake and eat it to. Are you of the opinion that EPCOT is dieing a slow death? Or do you see the fact that EPCOT needs a large influx of cash for a "update"...so why not this?

You know theme parks and you also know DIsney, where did it go wrong? Did they spread themselves out to thin? No matter how big and profitable the company is there is only so much cash to go around. It seems abvious that building DLP and HKDL took from the pie. It seems that the whole Parks division has grown to a behemoth proportions. Where is the vision? DO they honestly have a plan? I mean EPCOT is becoming a PI disaster on a EPIC scale.


I think you have a great idea, but not sure the powers to be has the ....for a lack of a better term (not really but this is a family forum) wherewithall to pull the trigger on a project like this. ....what would we do with all that film of Walt with his pointer showing us the model of EPCOT?

If you reread my post, the whole idea here is to finally build Walt's version (21st Century take) that he showed with the pointer and walk away from the theme park version that prevents that. I know it will cause mass hysteria for those who like what's there right now, but I think it's the only way to get Walt's City vision done. You can't have 2 EPCOTS. In the meantime, you get a Star Wars Park/Resort to fund the first phase. To be honest, the easy way out (practical, logical and less expensive) is to build a little SW "land" over at DHS, but I guess I just like making "Spaceship Earth" into this forced perspective "Death Star" most of all. I know it's over the top and impractical. I guess I just want to see that, and that would easily get me on a plane to come from LA. The land less so. I can see it sending a laser right into the village below (or it "blowing up" with fireworks or pyros mounted on the sides). Now that drone technology is getting to be FAA approved, you could do small "Starships" that fight over the lagoon. Maybe part of the queue for the ride inside is taking an elevator and getting off on some random floors, or bridging over the trash compactor and having beasts try and get you. Stuff like that. I see the hotels being a bit less literally themed, but just beautiful and exotic fantasy spaces. No in-room Wookies, but maybe more in the lobby at breakfast. You can have an underwater Nouveau styled Spa and dining experience inspired by that Underwater City. A peaceful Jedi Palace Hotel with a Cirque du Soleil type show using the "force" with acrobatics and lightsabers. It's just pretty but with a lighter touch of SW. There is more story in the shows or in a ride and just the "world" in the other areas. No "story stick" beating you over the head so you can imagine your own adventure in those cool places. To me, the goal would be to make this "awesome as all get out" for someone who has never seen one of the films and just loved the romantic "worlds" and the interesting characters within them. "From the imagination of George Lucas" is all you need to know, a cool hotel with an AA Banta outside at the valet as a touch.

I don't expect anyone to ever do this as it's a very big move, but I don't care and am just voicing what I wanna see. It took more than a decade just to change the film in Star Tours. Your analogy of PI on a big scale is really interesting.
(Maybe George Lucas will read this and we can gang up on them!)

 

[Eddie Sotto]

And if they Still want to use video screens onthe deathstar/X-wing experience let it be more like this technology

http://youtu.be/oGa1Q7NvsI0

Agree. It is a Really cool interactive technology. Thanks for posting this. I went to a Star Wars exhibit over the weekend and they had this cool game using this kind of thing. Really interesting and fun to play.

 

[ChrisFL]

I went to a Star Wars exhibit over the weekend and they had this cool game using this kind of thing. Really interesting and fun to play.

Like the kind of stuff we should be seeing at Innoventions, but don't

 

[Ralphlaw]

Respectfully, I disagree with much of what is being said. You don't take the 3rd most popular theme park in the world and give it a mono-theme.

I love Star Wars, and have loved it since I saw the first movie in the mid 70's, with poster all over my bedroom, and even reading the books that came out. Many people love it, but many also do not. Instead, we should consider as a 5th gate "HeroWorld", with sports heroes, mythical heroes, and heroes of the future. A Star Wars "land" could fit there, but more about that some other time.

Epcot for most visitors is excellent. Many of the attractions are absolute winners, and World Showcase is a one of a kind place. Taking representations of real countries and turning them into Star Wars planets would appeal to only a small fraction of the population. I love Star Wars, but I'm still trying to recall what Mos Eisley is. Yes, the big fans would be rabid about it, but most people would think it the work of fanatics, akin to Star Trekkies.

Look, Star Tours was a very quiet attraction just a few years ago, with far shorter lines than those at Tower of Terror, Rock n Roller coaster, Little Mermaid, and Who wants to be a Millionaire. Turning the Spaceship Earth Icon that nobly traces human history into an evil ball that gets blown up is just wrong wrong wrong. You don't have something evil as the centerpiece of a billion dollar theme park. The evil(ish) stuff belongs on the side, like Haunted Mansion.

Get real, people. Yeah, it's fun to think about, and purists who wonder what Soarin', Nemo, and Test Track (a car ride that is significantly slower than highway speeds) are doing at Epcot, seek great futurism. But face it, micro electronics in your pocket gizmo, and the latest medical diagnostic equipment, are not very exciting to look at on vacation, and that is where the future is right now. We're not going to the moon, or even on manned flights any more. And actually living in some great futuristic disney city is way way way beyond most people's budget. Yes, the ideas are great, but they're also preposterous pie in the sky chunks of naivete. Build a Star Wars land somewhere else; don't destroy a great (and profitable) place in the process.

 

[ChrisFL]

Get real, people. Yeah, it's fun to think about, and purists who wonder what Soarin', Nemo, and Test Track (a car ride that is significantly slower than highway speeds) are doing at Epcot, seek great futurism. But face it, micro electronics in your pocket gizmo, and the latest medical diagnostic equipment, are not very exciting to look at on vacation, and that is where the future is right now. We're not going to the moon, or even on manned flights any more.

While I don't disagree with your sentiment about EPCOT being turned into Star Wars, its still a fun exercise in creativitiy, so I won't fault Eddie for that....I do the same kind of thing myself all the time.

I do, however disagree with this quote. That's the big problem with society, and if you consider the era that EPCOT Center was built out of, and honestly before Star Wars also came out...the mid 70's, although I wasn't around back then, seemed to be in a lot of turmoil...vietnam, oil crises, political upheavals...all a bit similar to today.

Then those who are visionaries brought us HOPE for the future. Just because at the moment we're mired in our own "what's happening today" mentality doesn't mean we should be looking ahead at the future.

That's what sci-fi writers taught us and that's what EPCOT Center tried to teach us as well.

To you, the latest micro gizmo might not be exciting, but there are TONS of people who DO think its exciting. Look at gizmodo, mashable, engadget, Apple presentations...the CES shows, etc. There's plenty of stuff out there.

Also, just because the U.S. goverment isn't going to the moon anytime soon doesn't mean that no one else is. China is considering it, and we're about to have potentially a great PRIVATE industry of space flight soon. Why not promote that? Like Eddie said before, I wish Virgin Galactic had made WDW their launching port for space travel.

Perhaps if Disney management could see past their nose, they would have set up a mutually beneficial agreement with Sir Richard Branson about setting that up at WDW (and its also near KSC which can only help matters...with all of those out of work NASA employees).

 

[Ralphlaw]

My point is that staying ahead in Future World is nearly impossible. When Epcot was blueprinted in the 70s and built in the early 80s, keeping up with whiz bang visual stuff of the future was very exciting and doable only in high budget special places like Epcot. New energy was huge, along with space, robots, human body science, etc . . . Now, the changes are tiny and expected. New computers and gadgets are very cool, but how do you make them so exciting that you'll travel halfway across the country to see them? Looking at circuitry through a microscope isn't very fun, and you could conjure up similar images on your smartphone in less than a minute from some website. And new amazing apps are literally minutes away. Computer Graphics are viewable in dozens of movies on your TV everyday that feature every visible wonder imaginable. Just last night, we had 2 Pirates of the Carribean movies, X-men, Star Wars, Night at the Museum, and Star Trek.

The problem, how do you illustrate the future in Future World in a unique and "I gotta see it" way? I don't know. I like brainstorming and throwing around ideas, but when one part of the idea is, to put it bluntly, ridiculous, the good part of the idea gets lost for many people. Redoing Epcot to be a Star Wars park came off that way to me. Unrealistic, and absolutely blind to the economic realities. In my opinion, thinking about a Hero World, especially now that Disney got the rights to so many Marvel Characters, seems to be a more realistic exercise in brainstorming. Gutting Epcot is not, in my opinion, a very worthwhile conversation.

 

[ChrisFL]

My point is that staying ahead in Future World is nearly impossible. When Epcot was blueprinted in the 70s and built in the early 80s, keeping up with whiz bang visual stuff of the future was very exciting and doable only in high budget special places like Epcot. New energy was huge, along with space, robots, human body science, etc . . . Now, the changes are tiny and expected. New computers and gadgets are very cool, but how do you make them so exciting that you'll travel halfway across the country to see them? Looking at circuitry through a microscope isn't very fun, and you could conjure up similar images on your smartphone in less than a minute from some website. And new amazing apps are literally minutes away. Computer Graphics are viewable in dozens of movies on your TV everyday that feature every visible wonder imaginable. Just last night, we had 2 Pirates of the Carribean movies, X-men, Star Wars, Night at the Museum, and Star Trek.

Well I actually covered this in my blog recently

*ahem*SHAMELESS PLUG*cough*....

http://imagineeringmind.wordpress.com/

The irony is that when EPCOT Center first opened, geekdom hadn't really caught into the mainstream. There were no gadget gurus but since then, becoming a technology "enthusiast" if you will, has caught on massively.

Disney could have easily positioned EPCOT as the "Center" of all things related to coming together to demonstrate the future. TED Talks, Big Think, Siggraph, CES are all the kinds of events that EPCOT should be hosting.

What about robotics competitions, science fairs and stuff like that? Having something new and exciting every month to do would entice lots of geek fans. Why not expand Star Wars weekends into some events that tie into EPCOT as well?

The problem is, that Disney has consitenly worried too much in the past 10-15 years in attracting families with small kids and not the market that EPCOT was designed for, therefore they're shoe-horning other types of kid-friendly attractions to keep it relevant to that market.

Meanwhile their potential market is just as happy going to Las Vegas or Los Angeles to have events.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Respectfully, I disagree with much of what is being said. You don't take the 3rd most popular theme park in the world and give it a mono-theme.

I love Star Wars, and have loved it since I saw the first movie in the mid 70's, with poster all over my bedroom, and even reading the books that came out. Many people love it, but many also do not. Instead, we should consider as a 5th gate "HeroWorld", with sports heroes, mythical heroes, and heroes of the future. A Star Wars "land" could fit there, but more about that some other time.

Epcot for most visitors is excellent. Many of the attractions are absolute winners, and World Showcase is a one of a kind place. Taking representations of real countries and turning them into Star Wars planets would appeal to only a small fraction of the population. I love Star Wars, but I'm still trying to recall what Mos Eisley is. Yes, the big fans would be rabid about it, but most people would think it the work of fanatics, akin to Star Trekkies.

Look, Star Tours was a very quiet attraction just a few years ago, with far shorter lines than those at Tower of Terror, Rock n Roller coaster, Little Mermaid, and Who wants to be a Millionaire. Turning the Spaceship Earth Icon that nobly traces human history into an evil ball that gets blown up is just wrong wrong wrong. You don't have something evil as the centerpiece of a billion dollar theme park. The evil(ish) stuff belongs on the side, like Haunted Mansion.

Get real, people. Yeah, it's fun to think about, and purists who wonder what Soarin', Nemo, and Test Track (a car ride that is significantly slower than highway speeds) are doing at Epcot, seek great futurism. But face it, micro electronics in your pocket gizmo, and the latest medical diagnostic equipment, are not very exciting to look at on vacation, and that is where the future is right now. We're not going to the moon, or even on manned flights any more. And actually living in some great futuristic disney city is way way way beyond most people's budget. Yes, the ideas are great, but they're also preposterous pie in the sky chunks of naivete. Build a Star Wars land somewhere else; don't destroy a great (and profitable) place in the process.

Well said and I actually agree with a lot of it. You might want to reread my post to understand the goal. This is not limited to fans of the films, it's not a trivia festival. You would do romantic fantasy worlds drawn from the films that anyone would love, not just those who have seen the films. It's from the imagination of George Lucas, as Disneyland is from the imagination of Walt Disney. Millions have been to DL who have not seen the films and or the ones the rides are based on. It's the worlds that work. As I said, I don't expect anyone to do this, it's just what I'd like to see. The concept of a Disneyland was once considered "naive", but happened because one person thought it was they wanted to see and did it. Thank goodness for Richard Branson and Steve Jobs as they saw our world in new and different ways and could lead their fields. EPCOT as it does entertain, stands in the way of bold visions. A futuristic "city" may be beautiful and well designed and not necessarily silver suited hostesses. Disney's appeal to many in the past was that they led the future in popular culture. There is a vacuum in this area today and broad strokes will be what it takes to inspire people to go further. Disney could do that. A positive future could even mean less technology and more communal living, to me the ultimate city has to "just work". Disney was on to something with "less cars and more green" and lost their way. Maybe it is just a time share or the vacation club type thing. Just my opinion. I'm probably wrong, but to me "getting real" is exactly what has been wrong with the company. Disney needs to reach. If they reached for the city of tomorrow and landed somewhat short of it, that could still be a breakthrough.

In hindsight, I agree that a Death Star is not a positive icon and is too pessimistic, although you could enter opposite and have it as a backdrop. (However, Disney was considering an all "Villains" park, it's ironic.) If I had a choice to visit a Lucas park or something that does not live up to it's name and is not getting any closer to it, I'd rather go to something from George's imagination. That's just me. EPCOT Park devotees would string me up for sure! When I wrote the post I knew that it would generate lots of "spleen juice" and alarm, but blue sky meetings are like that and it's part of the Imagineering process. This thread gets kind of safe at times. Considering the "unthinkable" is always what happens in those BlueSky meetings so the lively debate ensues till reality prevails. Sometimes too much reality.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My point is that staying ahead in Future World is nearly impossible. When Epcot was blueprinted in the 70s and built in the early 80s, keeping up with whiz bang visual stuff of the future was very exciting and doable only in high budget special places like Epcot. New energy was huge, along with space, robots, human body science, etc . . . Now, the changes are tiny and expected. New computers and gadgets are very cool, but how do you make them so exciting that you'll travel halfway across the country to see them? Looking at circuitry through a microscope isn't very fun, and you could conjure up similar images on your smartphone in less than a minute from some website. And new amazing apps are literally minutes away. Computer Graphics are viewable in dozens of movies on your TV everyday that feature every visible wonder imaginable. Just last night, we had 2 Pirates of the Carribean movies, X-men, Star Wars, Night at the Museum, and Star Trek.

The problem, how do you illustrate the future in Future World in a unique and "I gotta see it" way? I don't know. I like brainstorming and throwing around ideas, but when one part of the idea is, to put it bluntly, ridiculous, the good part of the idea gets lost for many people. Redoing Epcot to be a Star Wars park came off that way to me. Unrealistic, and absolutely blind to the economic realities. In my opinion, thinking about a Hero World, especially now that Disney got the rights to so many Marvel Characters, seems to be a more realistic exercise in brainstorming. Gutting Epcot is not, in my opinion, a very worthwhile conversation.

I'm sure they are already exploring that avenue.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My point is that staying ahead in Future World is nearly impossible. When Epcot was blueprinted in the 70s and built in the early 80s, keeping up with whiz bang visual stuff of the future was very exciting and doable only in high budget special places like Epcot. New energy was huge, along with space, robots, human body science, etc . . . Now, the changes are tiny and expected. New computers and gadgets are very cool, but how do you make them so exciting that you'll travel halfway across the country to see them? Looking at circuitry through a microscope isn't very fun, and you could conjure up similar images on your smartphone in less than a minute from some website. And new amazing apps are literally minutes away. Computer Graphics are viewable in dozens of movies on your TV everyday that feature every visible wonder imaginable. Just last night, we had 2 Pirates of the Carribean movies, X-men, Star Wars, Night at the Museum, and Star Trek.

The problem, how do you illustrate the future in Future World in a unique and "I gotta see it" way? I don't know. I like brainstorming and throwing around ideas, but when one part of the idea is, to put it bluntly, ridiculous, the good part of the idea gets lost for many people. Redoing Epcot to be a Star Wars park came off that way to me. Unrealistic, and absolutely blind to the economic realities. In my opinion, thinking about a Hero World, especially now that Disney got the rights to so many Marvel Characters, seems to be a more realistic exercise in brainstorming. Gutting Epcot is not, in my opinion, a very worthwhile conversation.

I'm sure they are already exploring that avenue.