Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[MarkTwain]

A word worth discussing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorphic

Couple of thoughts on skeuomorphism...

So that would make pure modernism, the work of Zaha Hadid and Rem Koolhaas, 0% skeuomorphic, right? Design that takes no cues, completely inventing its own language, its own rules. The architecture is a world in itself.

That would basically make Disney 100% skeuomorphic, wouldn't it? You have what are essentially modern warehouses completely covered and hidden by references to historic/comforting design, often to the point that it's completely indistinguishable (Tokyo DisneySea).

So in that sense, Disney is the anti-modern.... Interesting. And postmodernism would be somewhere in between, obviously modern architecture taking on elements of history.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The stroller thing is out of control. the y should create a folding stroller or something hat is less intrusive.

I remember the old blue strollers that had a lot of metal in them - could those be folded?

I'm sure the plastic strollers are a wussification/safety issue in addition to a cost saving metric for both production and cleaning.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Couple of thoughts on skeuomorphism...

So that would make pure modernism, the work of Zaha Hadid and Rem Koolhaas, 0% skeuomorphic, right? Design that takes no cues, completely inventing its own language, its own rules. The architecture is a world in itself.

That would basically make Disney 100% skeuomorphic, wouldn't it? You have what are essentially modern warehouses completely covered and hidden by references to historic/comforting design, often to the point that it's completely indistinguishable (Tokyo DisneySea).

So in that sense, Disney is the anti-modern.... Interesting. And postmodernism would be somewhere in between, obviously modern architecture taking on elements of history.

Usually yes, that is the way it seems. But they are nostalgic within themselves. Hadid is really derivative of the 60's Saarinen style IMO. the big change for all of them is the computer and the ability to create these shapes digitally and then transfer that to drawings.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1955585,00.html

 

[LuvtheGoof]

One interesting thing I heard recently was that a large area in WDW's Fantasyland (the old skyway tower?) was going to be basically dedicated to stroller parking. Having recently read Heart of Our Cities, it occurred to me that after trying to eliminate all the centrally located real estate dedicated to automobiles that Victor Gruen blamed for urban sprawl, they might actually be starting to replicate the whole thing on a smaller scale, with the strollers and ECV parking...

Jeanine, the skyway tower in Fantasyland is being removed to build, of all things, restrooms. The reason is simple. Disney is turning Peter Pan's queue into one of the new next gen interactive queues, and the restrooms take up too much room where they are at, so they have to move. As for where the strollers go, I agree with Eddie that they are really out of control!

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So am I a thread killer?!??!? Please tell me I'm not :lookaroun

 

[Vernonpush]

Jeanine, the skyway tower in Fantasyland is being removed to build, of all things, restrooms. The reason is simple. Disney is turning Peter Pan's queue into one of the new next gen interactive queues, and the restrooms take up too much room where they are at, so they have to move. As for where the strollers go, I agree with Eddie that they are really out of control!

So am I a thread killer?!??!? Please tell me I'm not :lookaroun

You are not.
And the whole "turning Peter Pan's queue into one of the new next gen interactive queues" is just a rumor at this point since nothing has been stated from Disney that that is the intent. Not to say it isn't true, but the whole "interactive queue for Peter Pan" is just speculation on the part of us "fanboys" on WDWMagic. Unless someone would like to verify that. Lee.....

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Whew! Thanks Vernon. BTW, I see your location as SA. I live in Pleasanton. It's a small world (oh, sorry for anyone who cannot get that out of the heads right now :ROFLOL.

 

[Vernonpush]

Drove through Pleasanton last weekend. Nice, but nothing was open. :ROFLOL:

Stay out of the HEAT! It's SCORCHING down here!

 

[ChrisFL]

Jeanine, the skyway tower in Fantasyland is being removed to build, of all things, restrooms. The reason is simple. Disney is turning Peter Pan's queue into one of the new next gen interactive queues, and the restrooms take up too much room where they are at, so they have to move. As for where the strollers go, I agree with Eddie that they are really out of control!

Actually its really being done to help ease the bottleneck of people in that area...it is often the most backed-up section of the park and with FLE opening soon, it would have surely gotten worse without some changes.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Actually its really being done to help ease the bottleneck of people in that area...it is often the most backed-up section of the park and with FLE opening soon, it would have surely gotten worse without some changes.

Well the 50 bajillion strollers that every parent in America seems to think they need for their 8 year old because they're too much of a wuss to actually parent wasn't helping the situation much either...

 

[ChrisFL]

Well the 50 bajillion strollers that every parent in America seems to think they need for their 8 year old because they're too much of a wuss to actually parent wasn't helping the situation much either...

agreed, but lets leave that to the other threads here...don't want to get this one derailed

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I can imagine with the way the foreign markets are reeling that we are all fortunate that as many projects are in mid production as there are. Who knows what tourism will be like next year. Green lighting too many more new things given the economic outlook will be tougher.

 

[HMF]

Eddie there has been a lot of talk lately about WDI's engineering department's lackluster performance lately Yeti, Snow White Mine Train etc. Would you be for or against WDI leaving the engineering to third parties? After all during the WED days most of the engineering work was done by Arrow Development.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie there has been a lot of talk lately about WDI's engineering department's lackluster performance lately Yeti, Snow White Mine Train etc. Would you be for or against WDI leaving the engineering to third parties? After all during the WED days most of the engineering work was done by Arrow Development.

A lot of the animatronic engineering, or at least manufacturing is done by a company called Garner Holt. They are the leading outsource for that kind of thing. I know some of the most talented and imaginative ride engineers out there, and they work independently for both Disney and Universal (and me too!). It's a "revolving door" between the outside and inside WDI, as talent goes in and out over the years.

The thing you have to guard against as a small contractor is WDI finding out who your key people are by interviewing you for a project, and hiring your team out from under you for more money, leaving you without a contract and a team. So you train people for them to take and lose the business. You have to be careful when working for any big company as a contractor who sub contracts his team to do the work, as this piracy tactic is common. I've had this happen more than once with a variety of clients.

 

[modegreen]

Eddie, you said a few pages back that you no longer felt movies hold the public's collective interest for as long as they used to (I'm paraphrasing here). Where does that leave a park like Hollywood Studios, or Universal Studios for that matter, when it comes to building new attractions?

I've always thought that the Waterworld stunt show at Universal Hollywood did it the right way: It took a movie that had a visual look, and more of a sense of place than story, and built a successful attraction around a movie that is practically a dud. The stunt show's still going strong, since 1995.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Eddie, you said a few pages back that you no longer felt movies hold the public's collective interest for as long as they used to (I'm paraphrasing here). Where does that leave a park like Hollywood Studios, or Universal Studios for that matter, when it comes to building new attractions?

I've always thought that the Waterworld stunt show at Universal Hollywood did it the right way: It took a movie that had a visual look, and more of a sense of place than story, and built a successful attraction around a movie that is practically a dud. The stunt show's still going strong, since 1995.

I think the biggest problem with using intellectual property in general is the assumed knowledge. Don't know the property and you are lost. I think the reason Waterworks works is because you do not need to see the film for it to make sense.

 

[John]

Skeuomorphs (a new word for me) seem to me to be the very essence of rich design (or maybe "layered design" is a better term). The kind of design that is so good and effective, the viewer never actually picks up on the skeuomorph.

I've never marveled at the tiny handle of the maple syrup (well, not often and probably not out loud), but it does the job of "fooling" me into making the thing feel antique and authentic.

Disney parks have historically done a gigantically terrific job at skeuomorphing an environment to make it feel "immersive", where you feel transported away. In fact, the presence or absence of skeuomorphs is precisely what differentiates a Disney park and a wanna-be theme park that doesn't really "get" theming. A wanna-be park will add a few obvious themed elements but miss all the skeuomorphs.

When Disney does it right, the skeuomorphs are there (the new Jungle Cruise boats). But when Disney cuts them out, it feels cheap. We audience members may not always have skeuomorph on the tips of our tongues (I will, going forward!) but that's the operative term missing when Disney falls short. The DCA of 2001 was essentially a skeuomorph-free-zone (SFZ). THESE are the types of "little details" that we may not consciously note when they are present, but we definitely feel their absence. To quote Tony, they *are* the "Disney Difference."

:sohappy::sohappy::sohappy::sohappy: This is what so many of us have been trying to say for so long. Finally it has been said with the knowledge and eloquence needed. Poster after post people have been trying to verbalize these thoughts.....Thank you Mr Yee

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, you said a few pages back that you no longer felt movies hold the public's collective interest for as long as they used to (I'm paraphrasing here). Where does that leave a park like Hollywood Studios, or Universal Studios for that matter, when it comes to building new attractions?

I've always thought that the Waterworld stunt show at Universal Hollywood did it the right way: It took a movie that had a visual look, and more of a sense of place than story, and built a successful attraction around a movie that is practically a dud. The stunt show's still going strong, since 1995.

This is true, you do have to look at the world the film creates and if it's something fetching. Then you can go from there. Waterworld as a franchise has no value, but the show is cool. Films just don't stay in the consciousness as long as they used to unless there are sequels to keep them alive.

 

[jhastings74]

A lot of the animatronic engineering, or at least manufacturing is done by a company called Garner Holt. They are the leading outsource for that kind of thing. I know some of the most talented and imaginative ride engineers out there, and they work independently for both Disney and Universal (and me too!). It's a "revolving door" between the outside and inside WDI, as talent goes in and out over the years.

The thing you have to guard against as a small contractor is WDI finding out who your key people are by interviewing you for a project, and hiring your team out from under you for more money, leaving you without a contract and a team. So you train people for them to take and lose the business. You have to be careful when working for any big company as a contractor who sub contracts his team to do the work, as this piracy tactic is common. I've had this happen more than once with a variety of clients.

Eddie, I figured I'd come out of the shadows for this topic because I am extremely curious as to what you do, personally, to avoid having your team members poached by larger companies. Also, have you been on the 'other side', where you have been approached after leaving WDI by larger companies to join them?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, I figured I'd come out of the shadows for this topic because I am extremely curious as to what you do, personally, to avoid having your team members poached by larger companies. Also, have you been on the 'other side', where you have been approached after leaving WDI by larger companies to join them?

I was poached by WED from Landmark Entertainment and that was how I got in. It is very hard to keep companies from doing this. Contracts only go so far and so it's hard to prove who approached who first. You try to not introduce them to your clients.