Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Pixiedustmaker]

To be fair, there are those (especially small kids) that love that ride. I think it is well reviewed by guests overall too and the company probably thinks it's critical to having the right mix of shows for DCA. It promises "E Ticket" spectacle with the big entrance and massive show building (high expectation) and that's hard to pay off for some. That entrance is more elaborate than Pirates. Most of what I've read say in effect that it lacks "magic" (either in execution or the storytelling) and the unexpected. In some ways, it may suffer from the cumulation of small, almost intangibly minor details that erode the whole. Other issues like layout may have seemed less critical, but in the end effect the tone of the show. Very intangible. It teaches me that no matter how good you are, those small details (level of sheen on figures) still count and make a big emotional difference. Given all that you have to decide, you can miss some of those things and they come back to haunt you. The design team on that show were all first rate. They have corrected some things like lighting, which is way darker now than the first time I rode on it. Other things may come later. It may be that it lives in this "pergatory" of expectation between being a modest FL dark ride and a big, Small World scale show. It's hard to borrow from both. Characters with limited movements are mixed with those that astound with sophisticated technology. That contrast alone makes it hard, no? I say it's a solid D Ticket and does what it sets out to in that it entertains a young audience. We always want more. It could be that it just lacks that "wow" or "magic" for us for the reasons stated by all of you.

We experienced those FL Dark Rides when we were very young and also have those memories that make us cherish them. Mr. Toad was always my favorite as a child. I got to drive in a way that the Autopia would not let me. Now I drive that way for real.

To be fair, Mermaid does have its moments. I do like the brief scene of Ariel dancing a little to the Under the Sea song, but I guess I, and perhaps others, were looking for more of an adventure than a musical review. Its kinda like the Mickey Mouse Review that had in MK and moved to Tokyo, in that you get exact soundtracks from the film in brief little vignettes.

I think the budget for Mermaid wasn't there in that by the second half of the ride its like the attraction just ran out of steam. Video screens, (3 of them, Swimming Ariel, Ariel gets her feet, Ariel kissing Eric to get back her voice . . . not in the film), cut-out Ursula, plain "good-bye" scene. Kinda phoning it in.

Toad is an awesome ride because it has charm/magic all the way to the end with the final scene and the little devils that look like Figment to me and the hot/humid environment. That's not phoning it in.

If they had put a gigantic Ursula in the ocean scene, an amazing wedding on the boat scene, and perhaps a funny scene with Sebastian in Eric's kitchen being chased by the cook, then I think everybody would have enjoyed the ride. I don't know who decided on the ride scenes, but Scuttle isn't one of the film's top characters, Sebastian would have been a better choice to narrate the ride (if they had to have a narration).

In all fairness, Fantasyland in Disneyland is packed with happy little kids, I know a five year old who has all the Ariel stuff and *doesn't* go on the ride more than once each time we go to DCA (usually after or before a lunch at Ariel's Grotto and the parade of princesses). She said to me plainly that Ursula doesn't look right, and she has never said anything about Ariel. I showed her a YouTube video of the ride before we went to get her excited, but somehow the ride didn't connect with her.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It may be that it lives in this "pergatory" of expectation between being a modest FL dark ride and a big, Small World scale show.

Mermaid has a showbuilding that is between 33% and 40% the size of the Small World show building, and it is maybe 150% as big as Peter Pan's showbuilding, so I'd say your right in terms of size. Yet Small World seems to more effectively use the space it has as there are show elements above the boats and above the horizon, not so with Mermaid as the big "Under the Sea" scene doesn't have much up in the air besides the fish mobils with the obvious "bar" connecting the fish . . . which could have been easily hidden much more if the fish were "hung" with wires from some black metal bar/circle that rotates.

Pooh's Huny Hunt in Tokyo looks great, but as far as dark rides go in DLR, I think WDI is 0 for 3 over the past decade and a half:

Monsters Inc. is a disappointment in that the ride goes slow and you get bored, it's "wow" in terms of the world it takes you (looks like the everyday world) isn't there. I'll ride it once as the line is often 0 minutes, but often skip it. The outside looks crummy/crumbling. If Monsters University is a hit and offers exciting new vistas/plot points, then maybe they could re-do the ride. This ride kinda does the whole Monsters. Inc franchise a diservice, IMHO.

Pooh in Disneyland . . . I want to love this ride. Love the red balloon Christmas decorations, but the ride just doesn't work very well. Was management afraid to put in Pooh's Huny Hunt because this area of DL is cramped and there would be no space for the ride?

Mermaid . . . obviously I'm not a fan, there isn't "sincerity" as I guess Tony Baxter might say, its sort of a cynical take on Mermaid at some level.

If any, or all, of these rides closed I wouldn't be upset in the slightest. So, I think that some of the "art" of making dark rides has been lost, and there hasn't been a good dark ride in DLR for decades. I think they need to storyboard dark rides as its not as simple as "turning a movie into a ride" as just trying to condense major plot points doesn't necessarily make an interesting 3-minute story.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think that's a broad stroke. I've read many many positive reviews of Little Mermaid.I think the biggest complaint is that it isn't an E Ticket, which, hey, we all knew that would be the case, even if Disney tried to say otherwise.

Mermaid could have been an "E-Ticket". They had enough room to do something really innovative.

I think that if Alice had the space of Mermaid, and money for animatronics, a lot of folks would have salivated at the chance of a making an Alice deluxe ride with more scenes. Mermaid feels like it has about as many scenes as Alice.

They don't need the big vault room in the Under the Sea scene as it is just black nothingness above the hazy green horizon.

Alice uses the space above Toad, they could have done a bi-level ride for Mermaid, utilizing all of the space for the ride. The Under the Sea scene could have just been built with half the ceiling space by using a shiny reflective water's surface type ceiling and still accomodate what little is there.

Plus they could have added scenes such as Sebastian in the kitchen, the wedding on the boat, Ariel perched on the rock as she watches Eric's ship, tipsy Ariel learning to walk, all of this and more, such as a couple Ursula scenes, and maybe an Ariel running from the shark scene, and possibly all new scenes as well. And instead of the clunky clamshels, they could have used the ride vehicles from Crush's coaster, but slowed down quite a bit, so that you kinda of "float" up and down around the scenes.

Not much original about what is there, carbon copied movie scenes and a carbon copied omnimover which doesn't work for this type of ride.

And in the film . . . Ariel swims like a fish. I don't think anything swimming in this ride at all. It would take some innovation, but why not making an animatronic on a track? Would have been *awesome* to see Ariel swim around the ride vehicle making comments about humans.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I say it's a solid D Ticket and does what it sets out to in that it entertains a young audience. We always want more. It could be that it just lacks that "wow" or "magic" for us for the reasons stated by all of you.

We experienced those FL Dark Rides when we were very young and also have those memories that make us cherish them. Mr. Toad was always my favorite as a child. I got to drive in a way that the Autopia would not let me. Now I drive that way for real.

Some D Tickets are classic and don't absolutely need plussing, such as the horse-drawn Trolley, Peter Pan, Mater's, Dumbo . . . but there is some stuff in Mermaid that I think should be upgraded or removed altogether, not just that we want more Ariel, at least from my perspective. I kinda hope that Mermaid gets a major upgrade in the future, though it might take a while.

I think Fantasyland is inviting for very little kids, but Mermaid's neighborhood has that "down by the pier" look with the nets of dead fish and bland exterior that I think it just might turn off little kids.

It would be great to hear what the official turnstile counts are for the attraction, but I haven't seen gobs of kids congregating around Mermaid when I visit the park. In fact, I see a lot of families with little kids walking right by. It was interesting how quickly they changed Ariel's hairdo and the CGI Ariel to hand-drawn . . . honestly can't help but conclude that the attraction was, overall, not very well-received and that they took aim at what they perceived were the biggest issues.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think Fantasyland is inviting for very little kids, but Mermaid's neighborhood has that "down by the pier" look with the nets of dead fish and bland exterior that I think it just might turn off little kids.

Seriously, bland exterior? The bland exterior will turn away kids? Really?

Just how Pirates of the Caribbean's show building will also turn away little kids. "Oh my, a building that looks like nothing... Let's run away and find another ride!"

Give us a break.

 

[flynnibus]

Give us a break.

why is anyone even bothering... as if we haven't heard this broken record a gazillion times before the thing even opened... bad grass.. etc. there is no hope

 

[Californian Elitist]

why is anyone even bothering... as if we haven't heard this broken record a gazillion times before the thing even opened... bad grass.. etc. there is no hope

Flynn, you're absolutely right. I don't think I've seen someone stress they hate something so much. It's a little irritating.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

One reason you don't see huge crowds around TLM is that is has such a huge capacity as an Omnimover ride.

 

[lazyboy97o]

One reason you don't see huge crowds around TLM is that is has such a huge capacity as an Omnimover ride.

When I was there over the summer I was surprised that people leaving World of Color did not seem to just pour right into the queue. Taking a ride was a great way to get out of the crowds.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

When I was there over the summer I was surprised that people leaving World of Color did not seem to just pour right into the queue. Taking a ride was a great way to get out of the crowds.

The "pausing" of half the park to do WOC is another topic in of itself.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

All good thoughts, but I think we've been down this road recently, no?.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I guess they made it look like a Barnes and Noble because those place are kids magnets. Forget about driving by a McDonalds with a van load of kids, just make sure you don't drive by a Barnes and Noble because the kids are clamouring to get inside:

Not that a Barnes and Noble looks like Mermaid or anything (Wink).

But I guess you're right that Pirates queue appeals to toddlers. I'm remember when I was in pre-school my first coloring book was all about the historical architecture of New Orleans, that's the draw for young kids, not that the ride is a classic E-Ticket that doesn't need to advertise. (Double wink).


As you learn more from your mistakes than your successes, isn't it educational to discuss perceptions of Mermaid and possible mistakes ad nauseam?

That's a terrible photo of Barnes and Noble you posted, as it looks NOTHING like Mermaid's facade. The Barnes and Noble building doesn't even curve at the top and Mermaid's facade is much more appealing, classy and grand.

I never said Pirates' building appeals to toddlers. My point was that children don't care about things like that.

It's not educational when that's all you ever talk about. It's not really educational at all. That's all you talk about. "Mermaid is cheap, the facade looks like a Barnes and Noble, my five year old daughter doesn't like the ride, the turtle shows up more than once, the fish show up repeatedly, Mermaid isn't an E-ticket, Mermaid this, Mermaid that, wah wah wah..." Trust us, we get it already. You keep saying the same things over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again... See how annoying that is? (Triple wink)

WE GET IT.

 

[Californian Elitist]

All good thoughts, but I think we've been down this road recently, no?.

Yes, we have, but someone just can't stop bringing it up.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Yes, we have, but someone just can't stop bringing it up.

I deleted my last post, and I won't bring up Mermaid anymore, and I apologize if I offended anybody, though I appreciate Eddie's insight regarding dark rides and I got a lot out of the conversation. (This conversation is actually not purely academic for me). There's plenty of other rides I'm unhappy with, such as MK's Cliff Notes version of Pirates, it seems that they were going to remake Adventureland into something along the lines of the Pirate films, it does seem kinda dated to me. I guess some of this blue sky/development work may be used in Shanghai.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Looks like we put a fork in that one. No offense taken.

The new "Fantasy Faire" seems to look rather good on the exterior, what do you say?

http://micechat.com/23059-dapper-dans-sing-boy-bands/

 

[RandySavage]

^I'm envious of Mr. Dulk's rendering skills. I was closely examining all the BlueSkyCellar pieces and his signature is on most of them - sketches, elevations and the key-art.

I think the architectural portions are excellent - a great blend of that unique Fantasyland style. One quibble I have is the same I have with WDW's Circus Tents: the soft parts (tent, banners) appear to be made from shiny, stretched plastic. I think using a tough, natural canvas for the tents in these places (the FL theater and MK Circus) would really help the authenticity, historic feeling and make the colors a little less bright (which would be good). I wonder if that was considered and shot down for a reason.

Another thing I found interesting was that during construction most of the structure was poured concrete that was then carved to look like wooden beams, stone, etc.. Was this process used in 1980s New Fantasyland or the Fantasyland Paris or were real timbers/stonework and a more conventional method of building used?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

^I'm envious of Mr. Dulk's rendering skills. I was closely examining all the BlueSkyCellar pieces and his signature is on most of them - sketches, elevations and the key-art.

I think the architectural portions are excellent - a great blend of that unique Fantasyland style. One quibble I have is the same I have with WDW's Circus Tents: the soft parts (tent, banners) appear to be made from shiny, stretched plastic. I think using a tough, natural canvas for the tents in these places (the FL theater and MK Circus) would really help the authenticity, historic feeling and make the colors a little less bright (which would be good). I wonder if that was considered and shot down for a reason.

Another thing I found interesting was that during construction most of the structure was poured concrete that was then carved to look like wooden beams, stone, etc.. Was this process used in 1980s New Fantasyland or the Fantasyland Paris or were real timbers/stonework and a more conventional method of building used?

I am envious of Michel's drawing skills too! He is very good. In addition he's a really nice guy.

New Fantasyland has real wood when you can touch it and faux in other areas. Splash Mountain has the largest volume of sculpted "faux bois" that I can think of. The only liability in "Faux Bois" (French invention) vs. real wood is that you have to repaint it scenically or the cracks in it do not always obey the grain of the "faux" or false wood. I first saw it in Paris in a park called Butte Chaumont, where concrete wood and rockwork was done in excess in the late 1800's. A Tom Sawyer Island a Francais! I just met a bois artisan named Terry Egan at the Huntington Gardens here in Pasadena and here's his faux page so it's being revived. He loves the history. In Paris, the wood is slightly stylized and not really photorealistic.

http://www.fauxboisconcrete.info

Buttes Chaumont Parc, Paris.

http://fauxboisinconcrete.blogspot.com

 

[Californian Elitist]

Looks like we put a fork in that one. No offense taken.

The new "Fantasy Faire" seems to look rather good on the exterior, what do you say?

http://micechat.com/23059-dapper-dans-sing-boy-bands/

I think Princess Fantasy Faire looks great. I'm not the biggest fan of the very bright and loud colors on the tent, but other than that, I'm a fan. I'm planning on going to see it for one of the AP previews this Friday, but if it rains I don't think I'm going to go.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think Princess Fantasy Faire looks phenomenal, and it matches the 1983 Fantasyland very well, and it also has a "window animatronic" in the form of Figaro and a bird in a cage that is going to be harassed a lot by that cat over the ensuing decades. That's placemaking at its best, allowing guests to believe/dream that the area is "real" and hence evidence of real inhabitants (and their pets).

The colors have a different look than the carousel, but I think this area of the park is meant to be 'festive', and it certainly will be packed with guests given the princess meet and greets, so the festival (party?) atmosphere "explains" the horde of crowds next to the castle and makes it look natural. Nobody likes lines, but if I have to be in one, having festive/celebratory stuff to look at is fine by me.

Splash Mountain has the largest volume of sculpted "faux bois" that I can think of. The only liability in "Faux Bois" (French invention) vs. real wood is that you have to repaint it scenically or the cracks in it do not always obey the grain of the "faux" or false wood.

Faux Bois wood is a stylistic signature of Disney theme parks. Splash, for practical reasons, needs to use it for areas that are very prone to water damage. The folks who painted the faux bois in PFF really did a wonderful job, but I'm wondering that if for easily accessible areas such as PFF, which has some roof cover, if it wouldn't have made sense to just use real wood throughout.

Maybe they're figuring that paint job will last 7 years, whereas with real wood they need to do something every year, or maybe every two years? For a high-traffic/high demand area (at least for little girls who no doubt will love this area), it does make sense to try to keep it open as much as possible. Re-finishing the wood at guest level can be done on the third shift, meaning less downtime.

As good as the faux bois looks, it is extremely uniform . . . a little too uniform, though it still looks very pretty.

I might be wrong, but they haven't painted the "tree" on the top of Chicakpin Hill in a long time, and it looks too faded, IMHO.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The queue choices are interesting, looks like Main Street/Fantasland standard, i.e. metal rails, and I see a standard low-voltage lighting fixture.

Nothing wrong with it per se, though it might have been fun to go with faux wood railings, and maybe something a bit more creative for the low-voltage/landscape light needs. There was a company that they were using for low-voltage light fixtures that put some really pretty ones in a planter outside of the New Orleans Train station:

This is the type in planter under the tree outside of the New Orleans Square bathrooms by the train station. Maybe too breakable for putting in planters near railings as the NOS ones are more isolated from guests. They are also expensive: 475 American dollars will get you one of these:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/home_blog/2009/09/stone-manor-lighting-dramatic-and-functional.html

Maybe TDO could send DLR some of the Rapunzel lantern lights, though I guess they wouldn't go with the popcorn lighting.