Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Truthfully, I just don't see this happening. After reading Tony's letter and Bruce's memo, I now agree with others that Tony's new part-time advisor role is simply Disney's attempt to appease the fans who don't want to see him go. I believe that Tony's future role at Disney will be virtually non-existent.

I have no doubt that somewhere in the southland this weekend, there'll be a small gathering to celebrate Tony's long-awaited departure. The Usual Suspects will be in attendance, drinking, laughing, and rejoicing, as if their professional troubles were now far, far behind them.

:rolleyes:

There's no doubt that this "advisor" role is to appease fans inside and outside the company. I think Tony Baxter has even more fans than Marty Sklar, and that fans will issue more of an uproar as Tony's style is more in line with what the guests want.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Here's the WDI memo . . . very nonchalant with a lot of little meaningless concerning the 'next chapter'


From: WDI Communications
Date: February 1, 2013, 8:02:16 AM PST
Subject: Organizational Announcement - Tony Baxter

We'd like to share that, as of today, Tony Baxter is leaving his role as a creative development executive to become a part-time advisor to Imagineering. Tony began his 47-year Disney career as an ice cream scooper on Main Street, U.S.A. at Disneyland while in college. After joining WDI in 1970, he was heavily involved in the concepts for some of our most iconic attractions such as Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Star Tours, Splash Mountain and Indiana Jones. He also oversaw the creative aspects of the "original" New Fantasyland at Disneyland and was the creative lead for our second international park, Disneyland Paris.

In addition to his extensive portfolio work, Tony has long been an enthusiastic mentor to new Imagineers and will continue this mission in his new role. Like so many Imagineering greats before him, his creativity, passion and knowledge will have a remarkable impact on the next generations of WDI dreamers and doers. We thank Tony for his immeasurable contributions to the Disney legacy so far, and look forward to his next chapter.

Bruce | Craig


Seems like Tony is just there for morale support, if anybody is brave enough to go to Bruca Vaughn's office and ask to be allowed to solicit it.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Here's the WDI memo . . . very nonchalant with a lot of little meaningless concerning the 'next chapter'


From: WDI Communications
Date: February 1, 2013, 8:02:16 AM PST
Subject: Organizational Announcement - Tony Baxter

We'd like to share that, as of today, Tony Baxter is leaving his role as a creative development executive to become a part-time advisor to Imagineering. Tony began his 47-year Disney career as an ice cream scooper on Main Street, U.S.A. at Disneyland while in college. After joining WDI in 1970, he was heavily involved in the concepts for some of our most iconic attractions such as Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Star Tours, Splash Mountain and Indiana Jones. He also oversaw the creative aspects of the "original" New Fantasyland at Disneyland and was the creative lead for our second international park, Disneyland Paris.

In addition to his extensive portfolio work, Tony has long been an enthusiastic mentor to new Imagineers and will continue this mission in his new role. Like so many Imagineering greats before him, his creativity, passion and knowledge will have a remarkable impact on the next generations of WDI dreamers and doers. We thank Tony for his immeasurable contributions to the Disney legacy so far, and look forward to his next chapter.

Bruce | Craig


Seems like Tony is just there for morale support, if anybody is brave enough to go to Bruca Vaughn's office and ask to be allowed to solicit it.

Reading this just makes the feeling worse.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
The passionate and intelligent letter Tony has written shows his deep understanding of the product, why it works and what it needs to continue. I was really impressed as I always am with his grasp of the experience and his positive outlook on his new position. He still wants to be involved in projects and makes a great case to the younger Imagineers to seek those rare mentorship opportunities, even if they are not with him. This thread in a way hoped to be a mild form of that for those seeking a career in this industry. Tony and I were molded by our teachers (all 2G Imagineers were) and he is offering to pass his wisdom on to those who see it's value. I did and still benefit from him and others and never stop learning.

I will comment on all of this much more when I have more time. Yes, it seems that he is no longer in a place to be assigned or lead projects, so the "crown" has been passed. But he is there to share those encrusted "jewels" with anyone that would see the wisdom and value in that experience. They should. Herb Ryman came on as a consultant on Main Street and taught me many things right at the end of his life. He didn't run the project but in an advisory way provided insight and when he could, his visual skills. Tony can be used as a resource in this way as well. Herb had a great effect on what we did in Paris back then even though he was not a project leader. I learned more from him at his house, at lunch or cocktails, than in any meeting. I asked Tony to come in and critique the TDL Pooh Ride layout and he gave me some good insights. It was very valuable to have his sensibility on ride design as as well as some others. Having him do even that is a huge thing.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Really? Wow. For some reason, I don't see Tony in the director's chair. o_O

And now that Tony's letter and Bruce's memo have made their way around the net, I'd like to know what you think of them. Anything to glean from between the lines?

BTW... do you have any idea if Tony has a non-compete for the next few years?

Any likelihood of him working elsewhere when not doing the advisor thing in Glendale?

I need some time for that, but intend to address it.
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
I need some time for that, but intend to address it.
Take your time, please. This is something I'd really like to know, since Tony was the one who hired you into Imagineering.

I'm very troubled by the treatment he received this past week, the abject lack of respect for someone who was, until yesterday, the longest working Imagineer in Glendale. I guess that honor has now been passed to Kim. ;)

Any insights you could offer would be greatly appreciated.
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
The passionate and intelligent letter Tony has written shows his deep understanding of the product, why it works and what it needs to continue.
It was a shining example of how Tony "gets" the motivation for folks to visit the theme parks and ride the rides. There are times when I feel the upper echelon in Burbank doesn't get it and never will. Especially now.

I was really impressed as I always am with his grasp of the experience and his positive outlook on his new position. He still wants to be involved in projects and makes a great case to the younger Imagineers to seek those rare mentorship opportunities, even if they are not with him.
They should be with him. Absolutely. But I suspect the poisonous atmosphere that was oozing out between the lines of Bruce's letter will kill any opportunity Tony could have for this. Which is yet another reason to dislike the direction this company seems hellbent on taking.

This thread in a way hoped to be a mild form of that for those seeking a career in this industry. Tony and I were molded by our teachers (all 2G Imagineers were) and he is offering to pass his wisdom on to those who see it's value. I did and still benefit from him and others and never stop learning.
You and Tony and others cut from your designer cloth, as it were, see the value in the mentor/apprentice relationship because you value history and tradition and cohesiveness. Too many artists and their handlers today are simply too arrogant to believe that the older generation can teach them anything. All they see are wrinkled sacks of bones who aren't glued to their smartphones and tweeting every five minutes, and therefore, couldn't possibly understand them or offer any meaningful information that would make their professional lives easier.

Sure, not every thirtysomething is like that. But many are, especially the ones moving up the TWDC executive food chain. They're the ones who look down their noses at the 2G Imagineers, believing them to be a waste of time and capital. And they're the ones who are killing Walt's theme park legacy without even realizing it.

I will comment on all of this much more when I have more time. Yes, it seems that he is no longer in a place to be assigned or lead projects, so the "crown" has been passed. But he is there to share those encrusted "jewels" with anyone that would see the wisdom and value in that experience. They should.
You're absolutely correct, they should. But my gut tells me they won't.

Herb Ryman came on as a consultant on Main Street and taught me many things right at the end of his life. He didn't run the project but in an advisory way provided insight and when he could, his visual skills. Tony can be used as a resource in this way as well. Herb had a great effect on what we did in Paris back then even though he was not a project leader. I learned more from him at his house, at lunch or cocktails, than in any meeting. I asked Tony to come in and critique the TDL Pooh Ride layout and he gave me some good insights. It was very valuable to have his sensibility on ride design as as well as some others. Having him do even that is a huge thing.
Wow. I never knew Herbie did that for your work on Main Street. Too bad the younger Imagineers just starting out won't have the same access to the depth and breadth of experience that you and Tony both had.


Eddie, do you feel that the current lack of respect and loss of desirability for the traditional mentor/apprentice relationship at WDI is because of the future direction that Burbank wants to take Glendale?

Personally, I get the feeling that Iger wants to eventually convert Imagineering into the Universal Creative model, with a small skeleton crew of permanent employees overseeing contractors and consultants handling the outsourced work. If most of the design work was done by outside studios and design firms, then the need for a permanent in-house design staff -- and their mentors -- would be drastically reduced if not eliminated.

If this is the direction TWDC is ultimately heading, then I'd be very concerned about my future, if I were an Imagineer over 55 with at least 30 years under my belt. Tom, Joe, and Kim should be very concerned now. :eek:
 

Genie of the Lamp

Well-Known Member
The traits of an effective leader (as presented by the SBA) need the following: Emotional stability, Dominance, Enthusiasm, Conscientiousness, Social boldness, Self-assurance, Compulsiveness, Intuitiveness, Empathy, Charisma. The older folks and Tony had/have it. For the newbies running Burbank and WDI, the same can't be said IMHO.​
 

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
It was a shining example of how Tony "gets" the motivation for folks to visit the theme parks and ride the rides. There are times when I feel the upper echelon in Burbank doesn't get it and never will. Especially now.

It seems to be the standard business practice now -- innovation by large corporations has essentially been replaced by acquisitions. The real creative efforts happen in the smaller entrepreneurial setting and then get snatched up and digested into a larger structure, basically smothering any effective future development. Or worse, the development work is outsourced haphazardly. It's why a once-great innovative tech company like H/P is on the rocks from betting their money on acquisitions instead of research. It's why Boeing is left holding the bag for the outsourced work done on its grounded Dreamliner. Even Apple is feeling the effects of relying on companies like Samsung for their components as Samsung is now surpassing them in several areas.

Disney has been run like a huge acquisitions corporation for quite a while now with the same results. Once great creative properties like the Muppets have been stifled under the load. I am surprised that Pixar has been able to continue with their exceptionally creative culture for this long since being acquired by Disney. Marvel, Lucasfilm, ESPN, Miramax, -- it doesn't matter what they are since they are all interchangeable in the business model and only represent properties that can be harvested for continued profits. The success of something like CarsLand is only viewed in light of it's synergy to sell more product. Thus you are correct, Burbank will never "get it" even when the obvious stares them in the eye. It's a very sad reality for a creative company but it's easy to argue that at least for the upper management, despite how they try to market themselves Disney hasn't been a truly creative company for quite some time. The positive things we have been seeing are a result of individuals like Tony trying to preservere with what the true essence of the company should be.

I know this is silly but have you seen anything remotely as good as this coming from the Muppets since Disney bought it???

 

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
On a more positive note, Tony's letter is phenomenal. He succinctly captures the essence of the artistic endeavor for any creative professional no matter what business they may be in. I've been lucky to have several creative "mentors" in the past and have also learned a lot from my collaborative relationships. There's a certain amount of self-focused bravado that is in all of us when we are younger that gives us the courage to make the big steps that are possible to move forward. But to ignore the wealth of knowledge and experiences that others can bring you is a huge mistake. I'm glad that Tony is pushing for a greater collaborative effort between everyone.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
You should be more concerned about the entertainment cuts at AK and what that may mean.

I'd like to think it was due to AK not meeting attendance numbers & something needed to give which shouldn't be a problem at DL
Perhaps AK didn't make attendance numbers because not everyone enjoys the animal exhibits and it should have had half a dozen more quality rides in the park.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
But he is there to share those encrusted "jewels" with anyone that would see the wisdom and value in that experience. They should. Herb Ryman came on as a consultant on Main Street and taught me many things right at the end of his life. He didn't run the project but in an advisory way provided insight and when he could, his visual skills. Tony can be used as a resource in this way as well.

There is so much talent that has passed in and out of WDI's doors over the years, you'd think they'd have an official WDI Alumni program whereby those not currently working on projects could share their knowledge in a general type of way with current WDI employees, even with Disney employees in general, such as via:

1. Lectures
2. Coursematerial
3. Criticism of current projects
4. Lunches/Dinners/Events

I'm sure if they offered a WDI University summer course staffed by ex-Imagineers you'd even have the general public lining up at the door, and they'd be willing to pay real $. If they built a special WDI campus, it would only add to the mystique of Disney and WDI in general, which is sort of part of the Disney Magic that guests experience.

Walt Disney helped get CalArts funded, but sadly, some of the 1G and 2G imagineers were/are overlooked by the company that Walt started.

It would be nice if instead of a talented/well known Imagineer getting the familiar push out the door by WDI, there'd be a smoother transition to a career at a WDI University, instead of a messy process that doesn't seem to help anybody.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
There is so much talent that has passed in and out of WDI's doors over the years, you'd think they'd have an official WDI Alumni program whereby those not currently working on projects could share their knowledge in a general type of way with current WDI employees, even with Disney employees in general, such as via:

1. Lectures
2. Coursematerial
3. Criticism of current projects
4. Lunches/Dinners/Events

I'm sure if they offered a WDI University summer course staffed by ex-Imagineers you'd even have the general public lining up at the door, and they'd be willing to pay real $. If they built a special WDI campus, it would only add to the mystique of Disney and WDI in general, which is sort of part of the Disney Magic that guests experience.

Walt Disney helped get CalArts funded, but sadly, some of the 1G and 2G imagineers were/are overlooked by the company that Walt started.

It would be nice if instead of a talented/well known Imagineer getting the familiar push out the door by WDI, there'd be a smoother transition to a career at a WDI University, instead of a messy process that doesn't seem to help anybody.

Sorta like how they have fantasy baseball camps run by former players? Disney fans would probably eat that up. Anytime the public gets a chance to meet with imagineers people line up to do it.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
..... Too many artists and their handlers today are simply too arrogant to believe that the older generation can teach them anything. All they see are wrinkled sacks of bones who aren't glued to their smartphones and tweeting every five minutes, and therefore, couldn't possibly understand them or offer any meaningful information that would make their professional lives easier.

Sure, not every thirtysomething is like that. But many are, especially the ones moving up the TWDC executive food chain. They're the ones who look down their noses at the 2G Imagineers, believing them to be a waste of time and capital. And they're the ones who are killing Walt's theme park legacy without even realizing it.

Perfectly said.
All too true in many cases, too.

Post of the month !
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
On a more positive note, Tony's letter is phenomenal. He succinctly captures the essence of the artistic endeavor for any creative professional no matter what business they may be in. I've been lucky to have several creative "mentors" in the past and have also learned a lot from my collaborative relationships. There's a certain amount of self-focused bravado that is in all of us when we are younger that gives us the courage to make the big steps that are possible to move forward. But to ignore the wealth of knowledge and experiences that others can bring you is a huge mistake. I'm glad that Tony is pushing for a greater collaborative effort between everyone.

Beautifully said.
I am happy to say Tony was a creative inspiration for me.
 

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