Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
WDI still does great things and is not a one man operation.
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That's true, but while WDI isn't a one-man operation, the company as a whole doesn't even have one ethos. When you look at the whole spectrum, at one end you've got "high quality at any price", and at the other end you've got "build it cheaply and promote it as an instant classic." I think that Tony is much closer to the quality end of the spectrum, hence his departure is a bad sign for fans, and the average park guests who want that special "Disney touch" in the parks.

I figured that they would have Marty Sklar-ed him by kicking him upstairs into some honorary position, but I guess Tony committed a sin by actually wanting to do something ambitious.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
That's true, but while WDI isn't a one-man operation, the company as a whole doesn't even have one ethos. When you look at the whole spectrum, at one end you've got "high quality at any price", and at the other end you've got "build it cheaply and promote it as an instant classic." I think that Tony is much closer to the quality end of the spectrum, hence his departure is a bad sign for fans, and the average park guests who want that special "Disney touch" in the parks.

I figured that they would have Marty Sklar-ed him by kicking him upstairs into some honorary position, but I guess Tony committed a sin by actually wanting to do something ambitious.
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He is and we all love quality, but Tony's Tomorrowland '86 had to be done on very tight budgets. Less quality. He was working for Paul Pressler. It was more about the times, not the designer. Bob Iger knows to spend for quality. Lassiter wants quality. Carsland is high quality and so I think they are doing more high quality now than when I was there as decade or more ago. CL has the highest guest ratings of any new area and the creative exec for that area was groomed by Tony, Tom Morris. WDW NFL is considered to be rich in detail and quality too.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
Tony is a visionary guy who can critique and see things no one else does. He sees opportunities in things others don't. I hope that his consulting gig is doing lots of that and brainstorming.
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Given Tony's breadth of experience, and his "eye" for designing attractions/lands, it sure doesn't seem that any of his talent was utilized over the past four years or so. Sure, Carsland was Lasseter's baby, and rightly so, but it seems he didn't have supervisory capacity over anything, as would be expected for somebody that senior in any corporation. Mermaid, Monsters Inc. ride, BVS . . . none of these seemed to benefit from Baxter's experience.

I guess it was good for him that he moved on if he had to "fight" to just get little changes. Speaking from a fan's perspective, it sure seems like a bad time to lose Baxter's input. The exterior of Alice is in shambles, BTMRR is geting reconstructive surgery, there are plans for a third gate, Frontierland expansion, Main Street alley . . . maybe a Tomorrowland attraction years from now . . . seems like there is plenty of "work" to be done, and they lose one of their most senior guys . . .
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
He is and we all love quality, but Tony's Tomorrowland '86 had to be done on very tight budgets. Less quality. He was working for Paul Pressler. It was more about the times, not the designer. Bob Iger knows to spend for quality. Lassiter wants quality. Carsland is high quality and so I think they are doing more high quality now than when I was there as decade or more ago. CL has the highest guest ratings of any new area and the creative exec for that area was groomed by Tony, Tom Morris. WDW NFL is considered to be rich in detail and quality too.
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All good points, and it is nice to hear about possible projects for Tony Baxter, be it in films or elsewhere.

But beyond just hiring the best in rockwork that money can afford, there's also the sense of "heart" in any attraction or land which is greater than just the sum of the details.

I think of WDW's New Fantasyland as sort of one of those fancy restaurant dishes which "deconstruct" a common menu item into its constituent ingredients. You've got the essence of Snow White via a scene, and a couple of dwarf scenes, BoG and the experience with Belle, and Mermaid and Dumbo doing their own thing.

As opposed to FLE, with Carsland and Tony Baxter's work I get the feeling of a cohesive whole, Splash mountain melts into the backdrop of Frontierland and becomes part of it, Carsland had a very passionate advocate in John Lasseter. So, even though Disney may spend big bucks on quality, I think they still need somebody like Tony/Lasseter to give the attraction/land some heart and a sense of being a cohesive whole.

I'm sure the Sleeping Beauty Walk-through will do blockbuster business after Malificent comes out.

I'd be OK if Tony Baxter retired due to personal reasons/just being the right time for him, but it *seems* he was upset with how things were going with the culture and perhaps didn't want to "retire".

John Lasseter seemed to like Tony Baxter, can't help but think that Baxter's leaving leaves JL in a weaker position.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
If they wanted what he has to offer, couldn't they have just utilized him more? Seems odd he'd get to really contribute after officially taking a reduced role.
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I seriously doubt that they'll use him for much of anything again, though I guess I'll have to stay optimistic, this news is really depressing given how fans have heard about Tony pushing for this, or that, in Disneyland.

He's still a celebrity imagineer and they'll no doubt try to get him to show up to special events and stuff.

I feel sorry for him given that he's worked for Disney so long.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
raven24 said:
Speaking of Maleficent, it would be great if Sleeping Beauty Castle got some sort of evil-like overlay when the movie comes out.
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Maybe. Sleeping Beauty castle is where the "good guys" live, but obviously they could do a projection and make an exception. I think an evil castle for the weenie off of BVS, instead of the Carthay, would have been a great idea. Specifically, I would have liked to have seen a crumbling Maleficent castle complete with rocks, contorted trees, a lagoon and evil looking plants . . . and yet have a naturalistic beauty to it and be more intriguing than evil, per se.
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
Maybe. Sleeping Beauty castle is where the "good guys" live, but obviously they could do a projection and make an exception. I think an evil castle for the weenie off of BVS, instead of the Carthay, would have been a great idea. Specifically, I would have liked to have seen a crumbling Maleficent castle complete with rocks, contorted trees, a lagoon and evil looking plants . . . and yet have a naturalistic beauty to it and be more intriguing than evil, per se.
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That's interesting. What's ironic about Carthay at DCA is its Snow White/young Walt Disney theme. Sleeping Beauty Castle was originally supposed to be Snow White Castle, before Disney changed his mind. Both Snow White and Sleeping Beauty have scary tones to them.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
raven24 said:
That's interesting. What's ironic about Carthay at DCA is its Snow White/young Walt Disney theme. Sleeping Beauty Castle was originally supposed to be Snow White Castle, before Disney changed his mind. Both Snow White and Sleeping Beauty have scary tones to them.
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There are darker aspects to Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, but so are there to life in general. If everything always went perfectly then there might not be many stories to tell. Stories with evil characters/scary scenarios, in a way help kids prepare for life's unwelcomed moments, in a way.

Anyway . . . I can't help but think that in the future fans will be referring to the events of this week/year as the time period when Disney forced Tony Baxter out of WDI and the Anaheim parks stagnated.
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
Anyway . . . I can't help but think that in the future fans will be referring to the events of this week/year as the time period when Disney forced Tony Baxter out of WDI and the Anaheim parks stagnated.
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Stay positive. We need to stay positive about that, and about the new president that's unfortunately coming from Orlando.
 
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Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
raven24 said:
Stay positive. We need to stay positive about that, and about the new president that's unfortunately coming from Orlando.
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Disneyland has had a lot of suits come in and out over the years, Tony Baxter was a constant as the guy was always working on stuff, and certainly Disneyland, probably more than any other Disney park, has his imprint on it.

We all know the pattern after so many decades.

Disneyland (or I guess DLR) gets a high quality new attraction, be it Splash, Indy, Carsland. The execs responsible get promoted, move on, new execs come in and their goal is to sponge off of that success which means cutting maintenance and development of new stuff, hence the park(s) stagnate.

It will be five, ten years before Burbank writes a check for something big in DLR, and the budget for the little things will be whacked away until ten years from now the suits get it that DLR needs to reinvent itself with a brand new land. Only in ten years, there won't be a Tony Baxter or anybody who understand the institutional history of Disneyland like him.

Burbank spent tons of $$$ re-doing DCA, adding Carsland . . . they want to see a profit and are probably sick of building new stuff.

Writing off DLR as a success and something that doesn't need anything new over the next ten years would start with firing off DL's most creative and senior Imagineer.

The writing is on the wall.
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
Disneyland has had a lot of suits come in and out over the years, Tony Baxter was a constant as the guy was always working on stuff, and certainly Disneyland, probably more than any other Disney park, has his imprint on it.

We all know the pattern after so many decades.

Disneyland (or I guess DLR) gets a high quality new attraction, be it Splash, Indy, Carsland. The execs responsible get promoted, move on, new execs come in and their goal is to sponge off of that success which means cutting maintenance and development of new stuff, hence the park(s) stagnate.

It will be five, ten years before Burbank writes a check for something big in DLR, and the budget for the little things will be whacked away until ten years from now the suits get it that DLR needs to reinvent itself with a brand new land. Only in ten years, there won't be a Tony Baxter or anybody who understand the institutional history of Disneyland like him.

Burbank spent tons of $$$ re-doing DCA, adding Carsland . . . they want to see a profit and are probably sick of building new stuff.

Writing off DLR as a success and something that doesn't need anything new over the next ten years would start with firing off DL's most creative and senior Imagineer.

The writing is on the wall.
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You can think that all you want, I'm choosing to stay positive.
 

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