Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Pixiedustmaker]

FYI- We proposed to TDL as part of a New Fantasyland (late 1990's) to re-theme the Alice Tea Cups into "Be my Guest" with the music and everything and a big animated dancing plate display in the middle. They have a roof so you can control the lighting, etc.

Wow. That would have really plussed the Tea Cups, though I am a big fan of Alice, this would have been amazing. Can't help but reflect that the Tea Cups and Mater's were both envisioned with animatronics as part of the attraction.

Jungle Cruise has outdoor animatronics, but I guess it's ok if their "skin" becomes dirty, even a little weathered. I wonder how those new Carsland silicone moveable car lips would fair in the sun . . . probably not too bad if they could block UV, and/or put Mater under a roof like in the concept art.

I'm thinking budget killed these ideas.

But if they made a handful of Mater's for RSR . . . the development is already done and they just need to order/build one more, right?

Would have also been cool if Mater's had wobbling towers of junk, a la Rainbow Caverns Mine Train.

Oh, and it was on Miceage that they added cushioning to Mater's after some chipped teeth and whiplash.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Don't forgot this. http://www.theneverlandfiles.com/tnf/international/beautyandthebeastride.php

Wow, thanks, that's really cool. Couldn't help but notice that some of what is described for a Paris Beauty and the Beast show was utilized in Enchanted Tales with Belle. As they didn't use the big Be Our Guest scene anywhere, I can't help but think that a dark ride will one day happen as they already committed to making that corner of MK Belle's World.

 

[doctornick]

Without Luigi's (which I think they could axe without any replacement without many complaints) and without the development costs (Al Lutz reported that Mater's budget had swelled to $100M... how?!??!), I think you could build a DHS Carsland for roughly the same amount of money or less than the DCA version.

I don't think they should axe one of the attractions (i.e. having three works for Cars Land and DHS needs the rides) but if they wanted to save money they could easily make Luigi's into a teacups ride with tires as the vehicle. Would be cheap and not use much space and be a family friendly ride that is needed in DHS.

I certainly would like to see something more impressive (I like the LPS ideas) but that could be an easy "the budget has been cut" option.

 

[Taylor]

I don't think they should axe one of the attractions (i.e. having three works for Cars Land and DHS needs the rides) but if they wanted to save money they could easily make Luigi's into a teacups ride with tires as the vehicle. Would be cheap and not use much space and be a family friendly ride that is needed in DHS.

I certainly would like to see something more impressive (I like the LPS ideas) but that could be an easy "the budget has been cut" option.

Isn't mater the same thing?

 

[doctornick]

Isn't mater the same thing?

Mater is a whip ride where your vehicle goes side to side (the pathway of the vehicles goes around in a figure 8 pattern). The teacups style would involve the vehicle spinning around.

 

[Taylor]

Mater is a whip ride where your vehicle goes side to side (the pathway of the vehicles goes around in a figure 8 pattern). The teacups style would involve the vehicle spinning around.

Did not know that learn something new everyday

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I don't think they should axe one of the attractions (i.e. having three works for Cars Land and DHS needs the rides) but if they wanted to save money they could easily make Luigi's into a teacups ride with tires as the vehicle. Would be cheap and not use much space and be a family friendly ride that is needed in DHS.

I certainly would like to see something more impressive (I like the LPS ideas) but that could be an easy "the budget has been cut" option.

In general, they do not like to use the same ride mechanism at WDW in different rides. Guests would line up for Mater's and realize that it was "the same thing" as the teacups. Don't know if you have ridden Mater's, but it is a lot more fun than the teacups in terms of mild thrills and the use of cow tractors ties in with the films. Not sure that spinning tires would make sense for Mater's, maybe Luigi's, but why build something which is identical to the teacups?

Rounding up some cow tractors to spin around and square dance in his junkyard is so Mater.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The LPS system has technically "evolved" quite a bit since Pooh TDL, and I've heard it is the system or format for Rat in DLP.

TDL Pooh's ride system still looks pretty advanced when compared to stuff in the states, but I guess one way to evolve this system would be to allow for a much greater range of pre-programmed special movments, (such as how the Honey Pots "bounce" with Tigger being a special movement). Instead of just a bouncing motion, the LPS vehicles could possible have a greater degree of motion which involve tilting, and other motions.

Given the scenes in Ratatouille that will be put in Ratatouille Kitchen Calamity, i.e. a rat running crazy all over the floor of kitchen while it dodges feet, falling food and possibly brooms, the steady motion of Pooh's LPS system just doesn't cut the cake, IMHO. We need an LPS ride vehicle which twists, makes relatively sharp turns, tilts, speeds up and slows down quickly.

I guessing these are the "evolutions" in the new LPS system. I guessing that we'll be seeing cup shaped LPS vehicles for Ratatouille. I think the attraction might have:

1. Queue. An underground "sewer" with animatronic Emille talking to guests as he eats some "food" he found in the sewer, in addition to Remy talking about how he wants to show people how he became a chef.

2. Guests enter tea cups LPS vehicles, I guess the rationale would be that they are floating in the water in the sewer, and you exit the sewer to see Remy at the house where he first learned to cook, we see Remy watching television while he tries to cook. The woman who owns the house can be seen in the background as we exit . . . ominously reaching for a broom.

3. Remy in Paris gazing at Gasteau's, LPS vehicle maneuvers around a small recreation from a rat's eye view with a river on one side and Gasteau's on the other. Random motions as the vehicle swirls around while Remy talks about the beauty of Paris.

4. We are in Alfredo's apartment scampering along a shelf, and we see the first oversized human, it is Alfredo's gigantic head telling Remy to get under the chef's hat and stay out of trouble! A big scene where Alfredo's gigantic head pops up and surprises the guests.

5. Remy narrates about how things didn't go as planned and we have the big free for all scene on the floor of the kitchen, things are flying everywhere as the tea cups tries to stay underneath a table. People are yelling rat! Tea cups aren't illuminated, so you get the feeling that there are a lot of "things" under the table with you, sort of how rats scurry around in the dark.

6. Next scene we are underneath a food tray which is opened just a bit and we see a sliver of Anton Ego's gigantic head, enjoying a meal we cooked. "Who cooked this, this is excellent!"

7. Final scene, Remy with friends and family in a rat restaurant on the top of Gasteau's with a big Gasteau's sign in the background. We see the eyes and top of Alfreddo's and Colette's heads as they spout random lines, like, "boy your little rat friend knows how to cook!"

8. Exit back to the sewer. Finale scene is Gasteau's cook book propped up against a wall with a page opened which shows Gasteau. Emile is sitting next to the book, rubbing his stomach and complaining about something he ate giving him wild dreams.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The Pooh Vehicles only "bounce" because that scene has a motion base floor that gives them a limited movement and the scenery and movie imagery also "bounce" in the opposite direction. All of this is coordinated to give the impression that you are jumping a foot or so. The actual movement is inches.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The Pooh Vehicles only "bounce" because that scene has a motion base floor that gives them a limited movement and the scenery and movie imagery also "bounce" in the opposite direction. All of this is coordinated to give the impression that you are jumping a foot or so. The actual movement is inches.

Interesting. A lot less complicated than trying to build an Indy-style vehicle in something with LPS.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Interesting. A lot less complicated than trying to build an Indy-style vehicle in something with LPS.

Sometimes it's best to use simple optical tricks as they are reliable versus trying to do everything with high technology

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Sometimes it's best to use simple optical tricks as they are reliable versus trying to do everything with high technology

Wow. You learn something everyday. Next thing I'll find out that the Indy vehicles don't really go backwards before being crushed by the boulder and it some sort of trick with the floor.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Hey Eddie, I heard today on a podcast that you were involved with the original Space Mountain audio at DL. Any insight as to how that came about? When I heard it described as "part horror and part surf" I didn't think I would like it, but it was quite good! Was there any backstory that went into that choice of music? I thought maybe instead of the intergalactic airport or exploration that we normally think about Space Mountain as, it sounded like taking these little rockets out for a joyride was the surfing/extreme sports of the future... dangerous but fun.

 

[choco choco]

So Country Bear Jamboree opened up again, severely shortened.

Are AA shows non-starters as attractions now? So many of them have closed over the years (America Sings, 'Bears at DL). The ones left - Lincoln, American Adventure, Carousel of Progress - are so poorly attended. I wonder if anything can be done to revive these types of attractions.

 

[ChrisFL]

Eddie, we've been talking on another thread about Test Track and inevitably about the large canopy out in front which appears to be remaining in the new version, much to the dismay of us.

I had a thought during the discussion that perhaps it was meant to be temporary back in 1996-1998 when it was being built/delayed, and served as a large billboard. Do you know whether it was going to be permanent back then, or if, like the Wand, it was built and never removed as planned?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

So Country Bear Jamboree opened up again, severely shortened.

Are AA shows non-starters as attractions now? So many of them have closed over the years (America Sings, 'Bears at DL). The ones left - Lincoln, American Adventure, Carousel of Progress - are so poorly attended. I wonder if anything can be done to revive these types of attractions.

I think that there will be a second golden age of animatronic shows at Disney Parks. Here's my thinking:

1. Older animatronics utilized complex air pressurized systems. The newer stuff uses electrical "linear actuators" for movement, which I would think would be easier/cheaper to build and maintain.

2. Computer power has increased so many times since CBJ opened. I'm sure a laptop, or two, could run a CBJ show. With electrical actuators, you tallking less about expensive hardware, and less space needed for this hardware.

3. Country Bear Jamboree has great characters, as did other shows. Nowadays, obviously, Disney is looking for rides that pack a two-punch: interesting characters and a movie tie-in. For better or worse, the most popular Disney films are CGI/animated flicks, and I think that it is easier to construct an animatronic show when you've got the characters personality and dimensions in a computer at Pixar.

4. CBJ is still attracting sufficient crowds to keep it open, they even cut the show to let more guests experience it. If a dated show from the 1970's has these sort of "legs" in terms of appeal, imagine what a new CBJ show, or new type of show, could do.

Obviously, with the films, you run the risk of doing something which looks dated, but I think if done in a generic fashion, such as Bug's Life, the show could become a classic.

5. In order to squeeze more revenue from a show, it could be built into a restaurant and you only get to see the show during peak times if you have bought the dinner package. I would have thought they would have done something like like this with BoG.

You have a 15 minute pre-show, such as Lumiere conducting a small orchestra of dishes/silverware or something.
A 20-minute musical show, featuring songs such as Be Our Guest, and maybe even some new songs in which the transformed servants sing about life in the castle, maybe something humorous.
Then the show ends and you have Belle/Beast meeting people at the table for 30 minutes.

During the non-dinner show times you could have Lumiere's Orchestra playing for maybe 15 minutes on, and 10 minutes off, to the counter service folks.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think that Disney aims way too low with the designs of Tomorrowland and EPCOT. I was inspired by this article or 3D printing of building materials and could imagine vast organic structures with shadows and light streaming through them. Awesome and breathtaking.

http://blog.makezine.com/2012/05/01/ecological-3d-printing-research-team-interview/

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think that Disney aims way too low with the designs of Tomorrowland and EPCOT. I was inspired by this article or 3D printing of building materials and could imagine vast organic structures with shadows and light streaming through them. Awesome and breathtaking.

http://blog.makezine.com/2012/05/01/ecological-3d-printing-research-team-interview/

That's very interesting, had no idea that they were thinking about 3-D printing structural components for buildings.

Here's a thought I've had for a while about Tomorrowland: most concept art of Tomorrowland seems to be ultra-futuristic, i.e. organic buildings, People Mover tracks and stuff that is removed from small town life and is very urban/industrial, but what if in the future architects decide to modernize/celebrate older architectural styles with futuristic flourishes?

Maybe in the future, everybody will want to live in recreations of small Parisian towns, or in more ornate buildings? In many downtowns around the country, you've got post-modern government buildings that probably looked futuristic in the 1970's, but look dated these days. What if the new futuristic building is something that draws heavily on classical architecture, but with modern flourishes?

I guess I'm saying that while "futuristic" buildings once looked cool, there are so many of them, and these days they look clunky and overly industrial, almost basking in their sterility and absurdity. I think that the best way to keep Tomorrowland looking futuristic is to do something completely foreign, such as an alien space port, or a colony on another planet.

Is it the point of modern architecture to make us feel like we're just cogs in a gigantic machine?

I'd rather go to work in the building below:

 

[Cosmic Commando]

That's very interesting, had no idea that they were thinking about 3-D printing structural components for buildings.

Here's a thought I've had for a while about Tomorrowland: most concept art of Tomorrowland seems to be ultra-futuristic, i.e. organic buildings, People Mover tracks and stuff that is removed from small town life and is very urban/industrial, but what if in the future architects decide to modernize/celebrate older architectural styles with futuristic flourishes?

Maybe in the future, everybody will want to live in recreations of small Parisian towns, or in more ornate buildings? In many downtowns around the country, you've got post-modern government buildings that probably looked futuristic in the 1970's, but look dated these days. What if the new futuristic building is something that draws heavily on classical architecture, but with modern flourishes?

I guess I'm saying that while "futuristic" buildings once looked cool, there are so many of them, and these days they look clunky and overly industrial, almost basking in their sterility and absurdity. I think that the best way to keep Tomorrowland looking futuristic is to do something completely foreign, such as an alien space port, or a colony on another planet.

Is it the point of modern architecture to make us feel like we're just cogs in a gigantic machine?

I'd rather go to work in the building below:

Tastes change. Yes, some architecture has not aged well, but that does not mean we should be stuck with whatever you consider "classic" architecture. If we had the Internet 200 years ago, your post would have read like this:

Is it the point of modern architecture to make us feel like we're just cogs in a gigantic machine?

I'd rather go to work in the building below:

 

[NoChesterHester]

That's very interesting, had no idea that they were thinking about 3-D printing structural components for buildings.

Here's a thought I've had for a while about Tomorrowland: most concept art of Tomorrowland seems to be ultra-futuristic, i.e. organic buildings, People Mover tracks and stuff that is removed from small town life and is very urban/industrial, but what if in the future architects decide to modernize/celebrate older architectural styles with futuristic flourishes?

Maybe in the future, everybody will want to live in recreations of small Parisian towns, or in more ornate buildings? In many downtowns around the country, you've got post-modern government buildings that probably looked futuristic in the 1970's, but look dated these days. What if the new futuristic building is something that draws heavily on classical architecture, but with modern flourishes?

I guess I'm saying that while "futuristic" buildings once looked cool, there are so many of them, and these days they look clunky and overly industrial, almost basking in their sterility and absurdity. I think that the best way to keep Tomorrowland looking futuristic is to do something completely foreign, such as an alien space port, or a colony on another planet.

Is it the point of modern architecture to make us feel like we're just cogs in a gigantic machine?

I'd rather go to work in the building below:

We do that already. We imitate and recreate styles at will. People all want to live in their modern little tiny towns themed to some way back time.

That doesn't advance art or civilization.

Here is something to remember when addressing style. When Gothic was created it was the highest modern expression of art and technology. Same can be said for any style, when implemented they were the 'modern' of the time.

By replicating we aren't advancing.