Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Pixiedustmaker]

I agree that the spacing was critical to replicating Radiator Springs. What I question is the choice to replicate Radiator Springs instead of a more generic town. Radiator Springs has its set design.

As a fan of Cars, I must say that I love being able to walk down Radiator's Spring's main street. I think that guests naive to the Cars films also get a kick out of how car culture is embedded in the DNA of Carsland. I think that the little whimsical details, such as tail fin flower lights, make Carsland a special place, different from just an idealized Route 66 town as there is that element of fantasy as opposed to pure nostalgia.

Radiator Springs has its set design. It'll be hard to add new buildings that hold new shops, eateries, experiences and attractions because they are not part of Radiator Springs.

Actually, they could easily expand Radiator Springs, by adding a side street, such as around Luigi’s, and adding appropriately themed buildings. After all they were going to put in a Drive-Thru restaurant. If Radiator Springs is put back on the map, and the tourists come back, it make sense that the town would expand.

I think that the buildings that are currently in Carsland are both functional and beautiful, such as Flo's and the Cozy Cone. But Flo's is not the Flo's in the first Cars film, apparently Flo added the additional rooms due to booming business! Small towns change over time, and Radiator Springs is no exception.

Check out Flo's pre-expansion, you can see that additions to the classic Flo's from Cars has already happened.

Plus, there are locations from Cars that weren't put in Carsland.

And Cars 3 might very well have locations around Radiator Springs that weren't seen in the first two films.

You can't change Luigi's to be something better that fits with some new great attraction idea, because it is Luigi's. You're forced to work with the paradigm of the Cars universe.

Honestly, I think they could change Luigi’s to be the entrance to a new attraction. If you haven’t been to Carsland, you might not know that Luigi’s is just the entrance/first part of the queue for the LFT’s. If they wanted to put in a new ride they could make Luigi’s the entrance, the ride vehicle could be made to look like tires . . . tire roller coaster, tire LPS vehicles, tire gondolas, an industrial train that is moving big tires that guests sit in, tire repurposed as boats (though I guess there isn't a river in Radiator Springs), even tire tea cups though that would be somewhat derivative. The possibilities are almost limitless.

But why would there be an overpass on Route 66? The US highways were mostly surface streets, with the overpass a feature of limited access highways like the interstate that we known has bypassed Radiator Springs. You're introducing something very new Radiator Springs

Route 66 might not have had overpasses as we do today, but in the movie Cars a new highway was built which bypassed Route 66. They could also go with a bridge, and the entrance/ticket booths could be made to look like toll booths. You might not have seen Cars and not know that the film's storyline actually takes place in the present day, so an overpass would not be anachronistic.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As a fan of Cars, I must say that I love being able to walk down Radiator's Spring's main street. I think that guests naive to the Cars films also get a kick out of how car culture is embedded in the DNA of Carsland. I think that the little whimsical details, such as tail fin flower lights, make Carsland a special place, different from just an idealized Route 66 town as there is that element of fantasy as opposed to pure nostalgia.

But Radiator Springs is itself already an idealized Route 66. Nothing would have stopped those sort of influences have being incorporated into the design of something else.

Actually, they could easily expand Radiator Springs, by adding a side street, such as around Luigi’s, and adding appropriately themed buildings. After all they were going to put in a Drive-Thru restaurant. If Radiator Springs is put back on the map, and the tourists come back, it make sense that the town would expand.

Adding a side street does not address my issue of the usage of physical space. It is the theme park equivalent of urban sprawl.

Honestly, I think they could change Luigi’s to be the entrance to a new attraction. If you haven’t been to Carsland, you might not know that Luigi’s is just the entrance/first part of the queue for the LFT’s. If they wanted to put in a new ride they could make Luigi’s the entrance, the ride vehicle could be made to look like tires . . . tire roller coaster, tire LPS vehicles, tire gondolas, an industrial train that is moving big tires that guests sit in, tire repurposed as boats (though I guess there isn't a river in Radiator Springs), even tire tea cups though that would be somewhat derivative. The possibilities are almost limitless.

Yes, I have been to Cars Land. I was speaking of Luigi's Casa del Tires. Anything that enters through there is going to have to deal with that building being Luigi's. You're proposal proves my point, you've centered your LPS attraction idea around Luigi and his profession.

Route 66 might not have had overpasses as we do today, but in the movie Cars a new highway was built which bypassed Route 66. They could also go with a bridge, and the entrance/ticket booths could be made to look like toll booths. You might not have seen Cars and not know that the film's storyline actually takes place in the present day, so an overpass would not be anachronistic.

Yes, I have seen both films. We see Radiator Springs and its surroundings. The interstate is away from Route 66 and the town. So why is the overpass here now? Why would there be tolls on Route 66? Yes, it could have become a state toll highway, but that still seems off and will require explanation.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

But Radiator Springs is itself already an idealized Route 66. Nothing would have stopped those sort of influences have being incorporated into the design of something else.

If they hadn't done Carsland, then they could have done anything else, including a generic Route 66 town. I think Carsland is a bigger winner, guest satisfaction wise, so I'm not sure your angle regarding a generic Route 66 town beyond personal preference.

Adding a side street does not address my issue of the usage of physical space. It is the theme park equivalent of urban sprawl.

I wouldn't say that the 12 acres Carsland occupies isn't efficient in terms of space, you've got one E-Ticket, two smaller attractions, Flo's, Cozy Cone, shops, and the scenery which is almost an E-Ticket in itself. In terms of the attraction to acre ratio, Buena Vista Street is much worse of a problem in terms of land utilization, IMHO. I get your point in a general way as I think BVS needed a "train around the park", or a good sized attraction to keep it from being just a nice little shopping district.

Yes, I have been to Cars Land. I was speaking of Luigi's Casa del Tires. Anything that enters through there is going to have to deal with that building being Luigi's. You're proposal proves my point, you've centered your LPS attraction idea around Luigi and his profession.

But in terms of ride mechanism, the biggest limitation is space. Creatively, using Luigi's as a starting point isn't that much of a hindrance, and actually helps in a way as you have a focus in terms of theming of the ride. Also, if they expanded behind Luigi's, the Luigi's part of the queue could become just a shop at the end of the ride. Lots of possibilities, IMHO.

Yes, I have seen both films. We see Radiator Springs and its surroundings. The interstate is away from Route 66 and the town. So why is the overpass here now? Why would there be tolls on Route 66? Yes, it could have become a state toll highway, but that still seems off and will require explanation.

Well, I didn't know you've seen the film and the interstate looks like it is built a mile or two away from town, but I am sure WDI would be fine with taking some artistic license, and they could use forced perspective so that it doesn't look like the interstate passes right in front of Radiator Springs, or they could add a rickety old bridge. It's not in the film, but if it doesn't detract from the story I would be okay with that.

In terms of "toll booths" as ticket booths . . . do the ticket booths in front of Disneyland thematically make sense? Not really, at least the old ones were in the style of the turnstiles. Anyway, having the ticket booths being made to look like toll booths would be part of introducing the reality of Radiator Springs, and you could argue that the magic of Radiator Springs begins when you pass under the bridge/overpass with maybe a Carsland version of Autopia riding on the bridge above you.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

The issue with Carsland is capacity. The Luigi ride is weak and Mater is just ok. They both have low capacity. They are filler in my opinion. RSR is not great but passible in that area. So if you look at the exchange in capacity, that to me is a big deal. I'd like to see them rejigger the land a bit and add one more new ride in exchange for Luigi and see what comes out of that.

Luigi is such an operational nightmare for TDA, I doubt it would ever be installed in DHS. (I wouldn't be surprised to see it gone from DCA in a few years, either.) And while Mater is a bit higher in capacity, Eddie is correct. It's simply filler. Many folks use Mater as a time waster waiting for their Racers FP window to open. Those two attractions take up a hefty chunk of Carsland and could be utilized for something more useful in DHS.

Personally, I'd like to see Sci-Fi finally put to rest and replaced with the original Radiator Springs Drive-In dining location that was put on hold for DCA. Same concept, of course, but with a more varied menu and cars-related films. I'd dine there in a heartbeat to see Susie The Little Blue Coupe and Goofy Motor Mania on a large screen again. And think of all the B-list fifties hot rod film clips they could run for the adults (that's for you, Eddie) alternating with Mater's C-Toons for the kids.

DHS needs something solid like Carsland and Racers, plus some additional food locations beyond the usual burger fare. Just the special Carsland merch alone is justification for building this. DCA can't keep the stuff on the shelves! This is such a no-brainer.

Gloriosky, Disney! What are you waiting for?

Could Carsland be the anchor of a Pixar Studios area with TS Midway Mania?

My thinking exactly. Ditch the Backlot in toto and replace it with Carsland. DHS needs something compelling again. This would do the trick.

 

[flynnibus]

Personally, I'd like to see Sci-Fi finally put to rest and replaced with the original Radiator Springs Drive-In dining location that was put on hold for DCA. Same concept, of course, but with a more varied menu and cars-related films.

Such a large expense for what is almost a direct horizontal movement. I find that a hard sell IMO.

Only if one could truely make a outdoor, desert style drive-in would I buy that type of trade. But we know that type of outdoor venue would never work in the FL climate.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Many folks use Mater as a time waster waiting for their Racers FP window to open. Those two attractions take up a hefty chunk of Carsland and could be utilized for something more useful in DHS.

I personally love Mater's, its a fun ride in the middle of a highly themed land. Personally, riding M Luigi's, and walking down Radiator Springs' main road after eating at Flo's is 75% of Carsland's fun. Yeah, RSR is a great ride, and the queue is wonderful, but for me the core experience is just being in Radiator Springs. Folks who like, once in a while, riding the trolley down Main Street, or riding the teacups while soaking up the atmosphere in Fantasyland, will really enjoy these rides.

Honestly, I had read the reviews from folks who wanted another E-Ticket like RSR in Carsland, and was ready to be disappointed with Luigi's, (and wasn't sure what Mater's would be like) but I had an honest-to-goodness fun ole' time on these rides! It reminded me of years past when Frontierland in Disneyland had the keel boats going, and all the other river craft at the same time, and it felt like everybody was having a really fun time.

Plus, DCA needed more rides that the whole family can enjoy and Mater's and Luigi's fit the bill. A really boring ride is Heimlich's, and while little kids will like Heimlich's, they'll love Luigi's. So, I think they folks who want Luigi's taken out, really want *more* of Radiator Springs to see, after all, why aren't they complaining about the even cheaper and more boring rides in Bug's Land or Paradise Pier?

I hope that if they do build Carsland in WDW, it will be as part of a fifth gate, and that it will become a full-fledged land with perhaps two E-Tickets, along with Mater's, Luigi's, and another nice litte D ticket.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Such a large expense for what is almost a direct horizontal movement. I find that a hard sell IMO.

Not if the space is made bigger with more seating.

Closing Sci-Fi and moving the restaurant into a larger venue in Carsland wins on two levels.

First, it adds needed dining capacity to the park beyond counter service. Sci-Fi can't expand beyond it's current show building, but if Carsland replaced the Backlot, then changes could be made to accommodate. Closing Sci-Fi actually frees up the space needed for the Radiator Springs Drive-In, if New York Street was used as Route 66. The Drive-In is located on the edge of town right about where Sci-Fi is currently located. Put the restaurant entrance further down Route 66 inside Carsland, and expand the show building into the New York Street facades.

Second, it refreshes the stale Sci-Fi theme with something more popular and easier to exploit. Sci-Fi is a cute, kitschy idea, but it's terribly geeky and not in a good way like Big Bang Theory. Going with the Cars theme, IMHO, would have broader appeal. Pixar Canada could produce new and exclusive C-Toons for the drive-in screen and the Snack Bar merch shop could sell the toy cars from them. Given the huge success of the specific Carsland merch at DCA, offering specific toys seen in the Drive-In C-Toons would be like printing money. Collectors would dine at the restaurant just to get the souvenir toys inside.

 

[flynnibus]

Not if the space is made bigger with more seating.

Closing Sci-Fi and moving the restaurant into a larger venue in Carsland wins on two levels.

First, it adds needed dining capacity to the park beyond counter service.

I hear you on the ability to expand capacity but I question how much you can scale the existing indoor concept. Maybe go dueling theaters

But I don't agree with you on retiring sci-fi as tired. I think hanging your hat on cars brand as the characters themselves would date you much more than scifi. 50s Americana has got legs and will for at least one or two more generations IMO.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Luigi is such an operational nightmare for TDA, I doubt it would ever be installed in DHS. (I wouldn't be surprised to see it gone from DCA in a few years, either.) And while Mater is a bit higher in capacity, Eddie is correct. It's simply filler. Many folks use Mater as a time waster waiting for their Racers FP window to open. Those two attractions take up a hefty chunk of Carsland and could be utilized for something more useful in DHS.

Personally, I'd like to see Sci-Fi finally put to rest and replaced with the original Radiator Springs Drive-In dining location that was put on hold for DCA. Same concept, of course, but with a more varied menu and cars-related films. I'd dine there in a heartbeat to see Susie The Little Blue Coupe and Goofy Motor Mania on a large screen again. And think of all the B-list fifties hot rod film clips they could run for the adults (that's for you, Eddie) alternating with Mater's C-Toons for the kids.

DHS needs something solid like Carsland and Racers, plus some additional food locations beyond the usual burger fare. Just the special Carsland merch alone is justification for building this. DCA can't keep the stuff on the shelves! This is such a no-brainer.

Gloriosky, Disney! What are you waiting for?


My thinking exactly. Ditch the Backlot in toto and replace it with Carsland. DHS needs something compelling again. This would do the trick.

An LPS version of Luigi's would be a solid addition and it would alleviate any of the capacity/operational concerns that currently exist. Guests wouldn't control the movement of the vehicles but randomized ride sequences and the possibility of making it continuously loading is really intriguing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

An LPS version of Luigi's would be a solid addition and it would alleviate any of the capacity/operational concerns that currently exist. Guests wouldn't control the movement of the vehicles but randomized ride sequences and the possibility of making it continuously loading is really intriguing.

Has any LPS attraction had any sort of randomness in the ride paths?

 

[ChrisFL]

Has any LPS attraction had any sort of randomness in the ride paths?

Its not random technically but they appear random, because the different ride vehicles take different paths along the route.

Also, there's only two current LPS attractions (before Mystic Manor opens).

 

[stevehousse]

What is the other ride with an LPS system? I know honey hint and mystic manor???

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

What is the other ride with an LPS system? I know honey hint and mystic manor???

Aquatopia.

Ratatouille is also rumored to have it, in addition to a Beauty and the Beast dark ride. Significantly, where the bathrooms are near Gaston's is where an expansion of FLE . . . FLE 2.0?, could happen and a Beauty and the Beast ride could be built.

No LPS ride stateside . . . hmmm.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yeah, I think Aquatopia should be the model for Luigi's. It would seem like a random ride path to the guest, but the reality is that the tires would run on a pre-programmed path. They can bring them into a load/unload area as part of this path, and essentially create a continuous loading attraction like Peter Pan's Flight.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

B&B dark ride? That's a new one for me. I knew about the proposed show for DLP. Tell me about the dark ride and where LPS fits in. My guess is spinning on the table during the Be Our Guest musical segment.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The LPS system has technically "evolved" quite a bit since Pooh TDL, and I've heard it is the system or format for Rat in DLP.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

B&B dark ride? That's a new one for me. I new about the proposed show for DLP. Tell me about the dark ride and where LPS fits in. My guess is spinning on the table during the Be Our Guest musical segment.

I don't know much about it, but your guess looks to be very close. Supposedly it involved LPS ride vehicle which looked like tea cups. I guess this would set up a great "Be Our Guest" scene in which you spin in the teacups on a large "table" with some of the characters, though I always assumed the ride would not be in an exaggerated scale like Ratatouille.

My idea for a ride vehicle would be a wagon pulled by a mechanical horse which "clops" his feet and moves his head, perhaps a first—building a low-level animatronic into a ride vehicle. You'd get into this wagon and have a daring ride through the forest, like Belle's father/Belle, in addition to visiting Belle's village, scenes of the Beast becoming the beast, as well as the the Be Our Guest scene and others. The ride vehicle would be able to "tip" a bit, almost giving the sensation that you might flip over during the faster parts of the ride. I think you could buy the reality of the horse and wagon going into the castle if something spooks the horse and characters dodge out of the way as the wagon and horse enter the castle. The big fun of the ride is that the ride vehicles could go out of doors as well.

I wouldn't try to find the most iconic scene of the film, I guess "Be Our Guest", and then try to mould the ride around that, along with identical scenes from the film. Rather, I would approach the task obliquely, with recognizable settings and characters, but seen from a different angle, and not necessarily the most memorable scenes throughout the ride.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

FYI- We proposed to TDL as part of a New Fantasyland (late 1990's) to re-theme the Alice Tea Cups into "Be my Guest" with the music and everything and a big animated dancing plate display in the middle. They have a roof so you can control the lighting, etc.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Perhaps in Shanghai?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Don't forgot this. http://www.theneverlandfiles.com/tnf/international/beautyandthebeastride.php