Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
The roof thatching and the adjacent Jungle in Adventureland was a haven for anything that eats. Imagine how much food is dropped and what they get every night.
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Oh my goodness. I don't want to think about it. I think a change of subject is in order.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Ok. We'll head back to plants. Bill Evans, the man Walt selected to landscape Disneyland began his association with Disney when Walt walked into his nursery needing help with a rose garden he wanted to create for his wife. Later he returned to have Bill help on other jobs including his backyard railroad, where Evans suggested the train go through varied scaled down landscape environs. This went over well as it was show for the little train. Certainly this miniature trial was a good practice run for the park and landscaping the lands and the real trains!
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Not meaning to derail this thread, but . . . do you ever wonder why rodents are so frequently animated? Mickey Mouse, Cinderella, Ratatouille, and many more?
I think I discovered why after living in an old brownstone and getting a mice infestation after leaving food out. I saw dozens of quick dark black blurs of fur for weeks . . . I knew they were there. One night, when it was cold, I could feel them, and see them running around this big comforter I had on the bed, I was too tired to get up and chase them away and I had to fall asleep. I woke up once when one was on my face, and tried to shoo it away. I had to be OK with it as I was too tired to do anything else, and what helped me get through that night was Cinderella, and thinking about those mice.
Seriously.
Rats are worse, they scampering around like small cats in New York when they leave the garbage out on the curb for pick-up, you easily see more of them than people at night.
A lot of Disney storytelling is anthropomorphizing fairly repulsive and/or wild creatures. Look at Fantasyland, they've got attractions based on films which feature rats, toads, moles, badgers, caterpillars, dormouse, rabbits . . . Pixar had a film based on bugs, and another on rats.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
MiceAge has an interesting report on how the fast food packaging is becoming more generic, even blank and how the merchaandise division is eroding the themed show windows at DCA.
http://micechat.com/11554-merchandise-buena-vista-street/
http://micechat.com/11554-merchandise-buena-vista-street/
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
The window display change is dismaying. I understand WDI passes off a project once completed, but surely the President of DLR can step in and reverse this decision by the Marketing/Retail Dept.
In this case, significant expense was just incurred to create a compelling, period-themed entrance. And it was working: drawing crowds to the park. To undermine that success in order to shove generic Disney merch in front of people's eyes is asinine (pushing a unique, interesting environment towards something that feels like an average Disneystore). Makes me less likely go to the park.
In this case, significant expense was just incurred to create a compelling, period-themed entrance. And it was working: drawing crowds to the park. To undermine that success in order to shove generic Disney merch in front of people's eyes is asinine (pushing a unique, interesting environment towards something that feels like an average Disneystore). Makes me less likely go to the park.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Shows how if you don't fix systemic issues... Individual deeds will always lose in the end
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Well said.
The pressure to move merchandise raises questions as to what more can be done to attract the guest. Sandwich signs and pushing spinner racks into the streets or entire carts are the usual remedy. Then there are the window signs that slowly crop up. The historic purpose of display windows is to expose you to the wares and entice you to come in. When you make "show" windows that are prop related, there always is that risk that once you leave, it will be too tempting to remain just show and serve it's more practical purpose..hawking wares. This is commonplace as that division has the mission of selling their products. Like a parent that adores their children, there is no piece of merchandise that is truly ugly in their eyes, it is just under appreciated. If only it could be sen better, then they'd love it. You can tell the merchandise department did alot to try and promote the new attractions with Red Car and Walt items, etc. Their heart seems to be in the right place. They did not gut the windows as they have in other parks and no doubt see the good notices the windows get. The reality is that anything that is not bolted down usually erodes and gets swept out over time. Main Street Motors eroded into generic stuff in Paris and so you only have so long to make or break a shop, even if it is agreed that it is a primarily space for show.
The pressure to move merchandise raises questions as to what more can be done to attract the guest. Sandwich signs and pushing spinner racks into the streets or entire carts are the usual remedy. Then there are the window signs that slowly crop up. The historic purpose of display windows is to expose you to the wares and entice you to come in. When you make "show" windows that are prop related, there always is that risk that once you leave, it will be too tempting to remain just show and serve it's more practical purpose..hawking wares. This is commonplace as that division has the mission of selling their products. Like a parent that adores their children, there is no piece of merchandise that is truly ugly in their eyes, it is just under appreciated. If only it could be sen better, then they'd love it. You can tell the merchandise department did alot to try and promote the new attractions with Red Car and Walt items, etc. Their heart seems to be in the right place. They did not gut the windows as they have in other parks and no doubt see the good notices the windows get. The reality is that anything that is not bolted down usually erodes and gets swept out over time. Main Street Motors eroded into generic stuff in Paris and so you only have so long to make or break a shop, even if it is agreed that it is a primarily space for show.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
This made me very sad since I will be there this week and did not get a chance to see them un-defiled. Retailing and marketing seem to share this idea that a spot without product is a lost sale. I always love when I have marketing majors in one of the classes I teach. It gives me a chance to pull out one of my favorite Hitchhiker Guide to Galaxy lines. Listing for Sirius Cybernetic Marketing Division : " a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes."
PS. I kind of think the same about the group that did the marketing for "John Carter" but that is a gripe for another time and place.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
They should have kept the books in the windows. All of that merchandise in the windows is disappointing, and very corporate.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
You could look at it another way. You see all this cool period stuff in the window only to rush in and see none of it for sale and be let down by the contrast. It screams that the theme is as thin as the BV Bugle. Three or more of those letdowns and you won't even peek in. I think that the best compromise was "Sid Cahuenga's" (in it's prime) at MGM. It was seamless and an adventure. The store lived up to it's exterior and had real hollywood memorabilia, and in essence "paid off" the whole land. Just give me one truly satisfying experience like that and I can forgive the Art Deco Duffy displays elsewhere. It does not take many of those time travel experiences to balance out the typical logo product around the bend, but at least give us one period adventure we can lose ourselves in. Who will forget the "One of a Kind" shop?
Jeanine
Member
In retrospect it would have been satisfying to see at least one case of Five and Dime selling the books from the window or the baseball equipment, and maybe then merchandising would have been more likely to get behind the whole concept. While there was a disconnect between the period window dressing and the more generic stuff inside the stores, I'd certainly have rather kept the disconnect than lose the theming.
I don't like the idea of the paperware going generic, but the window changes feel worse to me, in the sense that a disfiguring scar is worse than a bad haircut--you'd rather not have either, but one is probably going to stick around longer than the other.
The real fail as far as I can see is that it doesn't seem likely to help their goal, which is presumably to sell more merchandise. Flinging iphone cases hapazardly around in the windows doesn't make me pay more attention to what they're selling--it just makes me not see the windows anymore.
I don't like the idea of the paperware going generic, but the window changes feel worse to me, in the sense that a disfiguring scar is worse than a bad haircut--you'd rather not have either, but one is probably going to stick around longer than the other.
The real fail as far as I can see is that it doesn't seem likely to help their goal, which is presumably to sell more merchandise. Flinging iphone cases hapazardly around in the windows doesn't make me pay more attention to what they're selling--it just makes me not see the windows anymore.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
This is probably the things I really miss at WDW. There really use to be a number of shops that were well themed to their areas and were not filled to the brim with Disney branded merchandise. I was always in Sid Cahuenga's on every visit to see what was new. I would even cough up some money for something I thought was cool. I know I was probably the exception but those were the shops I made most of my purchases in. Sometimes some pretty high dollar ones at that. I know the business model changed but the antique shop in Liberty Square was one of my favorite places. It would draw me in like Sid's. I also liked some of the more upscale shops in the resorts. I would say, in the late 80's and 90's, I would probably purchase about $2-3K worth of items a year on property. I rarely purchase anything now.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
At Sids, I bought a old scrapbook of celebrity photos taken inside the real Brown Derby Restaurant gathered by a waitress that had worked tables during 1942. In the back of the album there were clipped out autographs of the stars where they had signed on credit for their meals. What a find, and I still treasure those images. To me, that made the Hollywood Blvd.that much more connected to the past.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
It will be interesting to see what happens if the gross sales of those items they added in the windows or in the store overall remain unchanged or go down. Will they go back to the heavy theming? It's also possible that they agreed to allow the windows to be heavily themed for the opening because they did not have their merchandise yet.
The generic paper thing just devalues the food and makes it also seem generic. Do you think fragrance companies would ever sell their perfume in generic bottles?
Slowjack
Well-Known Member
This is one of those things that make you wonder if the people in charge have really given any thought to what the effects of their decisions will be. If I go into a lowly Taco Bell, for example, I can't say I ever pay attention to the wrappers. But if I ever got a taco from there that said "HOT FOOD WRAP" I'd definitely notice that. I'd wonder if the management had gotten slack and run out of the regular wrappers, and then I'd wonder what else they were slack about. It doesn't matter if you're selling crystal or popcorn, people fell better about what they've bought when the whole experience seems to be "of a piece,' thought-through.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
At Adventureland in DLP, the Hakuna Matata restaurant closed early last night. They closed it with just a iron gate, lovely themed. But it did leave me with the interior of the restaurant in plain view after closing, with the lights dimmed.
Let's say it looked liked the kitchen of Ratatouille, but with mice....
On the upside, DLP served me my food and drinks in fantastic Fab Five cups, plates and even bags. Awesome. My Casey's Corner hotdog served in a Donald packaging, with a Fanta served in a Goofy cup, to take away in a Minnie paper bag. That's how it's done. Long may it last.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Let's hope they ran out and give them the benefit of the doubt. In this day and age of tweeting, blogging and instagramming, having your brand cleverly displayed on the food you serve is to create a reason for your guests to send a picture and advertise the value added of your visit. To make this part of the experience too generic (I'm even counting in those all Red cups with "DisneyParks" and silhouettes of Turkey Legs, etc.) is to miss a crucial opportunity.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised nobody thought about the legal ramifications. The turkey legs can get hot, by labeling something as being "Hot" Disney absolves themselves of some responsibility. Weren't the old turkey wrappers just plain aluminum with a Disney-style napkin? I remember a woman who burned herself on coffee at McDonalds . . . 100% make sense to put a warning on turkey legs as parents might accidently hand these things to their kids, or burn themselves if they aren't careful.
Actually, the turkey legs should be labeled "high sodium" as they are soaked in a brine before roasting and they probably have grams of salt in a single leg . . . surprised somebody hasn't had a stroke after eating one of them.
Also, Disney has had a special relationship with Coke for a long time, and gets deals on the purchase of Coke products. Like in the movie business, concessions are where a lot of money is made. Having "Coke" being displayed on the paper cups is tons of free advertising for Coke. Though you may not notice the cups of soda at Taco Bell, they are often emblazoned with ads for upcoming movies and are sort of mini-billboards.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Check out the cup below, it has Disney symbolism on it for sure, but also a nice little silhouette of a Coke bottle. Obviously, there was a conscious decision made somewhere to more prominently feature the Coke brand. (I doubt the company did it out of some love for Coke . . . )
While I love the old cups . . . does Disney really want to be associated primarily with high-fructose beverages which are being blamed for childhood obesity and diabetes? Seriously, from a nutritional standpoint Disney gets away with a lot, they don't publish how much trans fat/carbs/cholesterol goes into their food.
The mayor of New York wanted to make large cups like the big one below illegal . . .
While I love the old cups . . . does Disney really want to be associated primarily with high-fructose beverages which are being blamed for childhood obesity and diabetes? Seriously, from a nutritional standpoint Disney gets away with a lot, they don't publish how much trans fat/carbs/cholesterol goes into their food.
The mayor of New York wanted to make large cups like the big one below illegal . . .