Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

I was surfing the Disney History Institute this morning and ran across this article on "Internationalism" in the parks. Worth the read. Then noticed how beautiful the tiny Storybookland Pinocchio village was with all it's sublime color,ironwork and scenic art, and decided to surf more to see a recent picture to compare how it changed over the years. In a way, this may illustrate the stylistic divide between what we do full scale today and yesterday. Todays' village looks more like the bolder, brighter Fantasyland that we see getting built and the past as a more realistic and subtle feel with more historically drawn detail.

http://www.disneyhistoryinstitute.com . 1956 photo courtesy DHI.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I was surfing the Disney History Institute this morning and ran across this article on "Internationalism" in the parks. Worth the read. Then noticed how beautiful the tiny Storybookland Pinocchio village was with all it's sublime color,ironwork and scenic art, and decided to surf more to see a recent picture to compare how it changed over the years. In a way, this may illustrate the stylistic divide between what we do full scale today and yesterday. Todays' village looks more like the bolder, brighter Fantasyland that we see getting built and the past as a more realistic and subtle feel with more historically drawn detail.

Thanks for the link to the interesting article with photos of Storybookland Canal Boats.

I've ridden Storybookland Canal Boats numerous times over the past decades . . . and I actually noticed the last couple of times that Pinocchio's village looked like it had fewer houses in it and that it seemed scaled back. Obviously, this isn't the case, but maybe it looks like this because they made the paint scheme and roof colors more homogenous. As if one day everybody in the village decided to go with the exact same blue tiles for their houses, you can see that the more "realistic" brown roof tops gave to blue in several instances. Even Gepetto's sign on his shop now has light blue on the bottom of it, which now clashes with his roof.

The worst offender, IMHO, is the current state of Toad Hall. The embankment behind the structure looks really bad (I guess they don't want guests on Casey Jr. to see that the back side is "fake", should have spent the money to make a new Toad Hall or build a "back side" to the current one then, IMHO).

I think they should have put Toad Hall on a hill, and added a little garage for a motor car or something. Also, you can see that upkeep of Toad Hall is pretty much non-existent, and no thought was given to restoring the front yard fence and posts. It doesn't look like somebody lives here, rather it is more like a figurine you'd buy at Hallmark for Christmas and leave on a table somewhere. Bricks that were painted a sandstone color have been allowed to bleach almost pure white!

The old Toad Hall looked great in its old place, wasn't hedged in by a wall, and the colors hadn't faded.

I think the door's archway looked better painted like it was wood, and I'd take vibrant blue tiles over faded green anyday in this case. Look how the old smoke stacks had "soot" painted on them, a detail they didn't restore when they re-installed Toad Hall. It would be awesome if they figure out how to add a little bit of a steam effect to the chimneys that is triggered right before a boat goes by.

Guests don't see everything on Indy, but on Storybook you've got the time to give almost everything a really close look, can't help but think that tons of guests realize how run-down Toad Hall looks.

There's a new Toad movie coming out, I'm hoping for a refurbished Toad Hall.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Going back to our earlier discussions about the future of Animatronics, there still seems to be a strategic need for them in the right venue and the right application. I bet WDI did Lumiere themselves.

There are a lot of little ways existing attractions can be plussed by animatronics. There were a couple of animatronic critters put into river scenes that the Mark Twain visits in Disneyland years ago, but I think some of them are in disrepair, though unnoticeable to guests.

The Lumiere animatronic seems to be a great example of a very well designed animatronic used in the right context so that the guests aren't distracted by the mechanics, but accept the reality the animatronic is helping to sell.

Eventually, after FLE is up and running, I would think that 1970s Fantasyland corridor would get a remake. I kind of think that eventually Peter Pan will be massively upgraded with new ride scenes and better animatronics and an improved loading system. I think that Peter Pan could be expanded into Mickey's Philharmagic, after all, a theatre could be built a lot of places, and the Fantasyland corridor is precious real estate.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

"Architecture and the lost art of Drawing"
Something I've been ranting about, especially when it comes to character architecture and classical design, but when the New York Times calls it out, it's a better read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/o...-lost-art-of-drawing.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Thanks for the link to the interesting article with photos of Storybookland Canal Boats.

I've ridden Storybookland Canal Boats numerous times over the past decades . . . and I actually noticed the last couple of times that Pinocchio's village looked like it had fewer houses in it and that it seemed scaled back. Obviously, this isn't the case, but maybe it looks like this because they made the paint scheme and roof colors more homogenous. As if one day everybody in the village decided to go with the exact same blue tiles for their houses, you can see that the more "realistic" brown roof tops gave to blue in several instances. Even Gepetto's sign on his shop now has light blue on the bottom of it, which now clashes with his roof.

The worst offender, IMHO, is the current state of Toad Hall. The embankment behind the structure looks really bad (I guess they don't want guests on Casey Jr. to see that the back side is "fake", should have spent the money to make a new Toad Hall or build a "back side" to the current one then, IMHO).

I think they should have put Toad Hall on a hill, and added a little garage for a motor car or something. Also, you can see that upkeep of Toad Hall is pretty much non-existent, and no thought was given to restoring the front yard fence and posts. It doesn't look like somebody lives here, rather it is more like a figurine you'd buy at Hallmark for Christmas and leave on a table somewhere. Bricks that were painted a sandstone color have been allowed to bleach almost pure white!

The old Toad Hall looked great in its old place, wasn't hedged in by a wall, and the colors hadn't faded.

I think the door's archway looked better painted like it was wood, and I'd take vibrant blue tiles over faded green anyday in this case. Look how the old smoke stacks had "soot" painted on them, a detail they didn't restore when they re-installed Toad Hall. It would be awesome if they figure out how to add a little bit of a steam effect to the chimneys that is triggered right before a boat goes by.

Guests don't see everything on Indy, but on Storybook you've got the time to give almost everything a really close look, can't help but think that tons of guests realize how run-down Toad Hall looks.

There's a new Toad movie coming out, I'm hoping for a refurbished Toad Hall.

BTW- Toad Hall was moved back when I was down at the park and most of the budget was used to build Eric's Castle, Belle's house and Agrabah. Toad got the short end, but could use better landscaping and TLC for sure.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

BTW- Toad Hall was moved back when I was down at the park and most of the budget was used to build Eric's Castle, Belle's house and Agrabah. Toad got the short end, but could use better landscaping and TLC for sure.

Interesting, I guess you mean Belle's village in Paris?

Anyway, I guess it makes sense to putting the money with more recognizable franchises like Aladdin and Little Mermaid.

I wonder if they ever considered expanding SBLCB to the west as the old Sky-way station sits unused, maybe they could add another loop to the figure eight. I would love to see a section that is a little more 'foresty' with a lot of little trees and perhaps a Brave section. They could use little blue LED lights for the willow wisps from Brave, easy to program them to light off and on like they do in the film. Seeing a miniature of the Scottish castle from Brave on a recreated scottish cliff would be pretty cool too.

Though I guess the patch-work quilt is an obvious area they might use to add Rapunzel, Belle, Merida or Tiana. I'd even be okay with a miniature Paris and a Gasteau's Restaurant from Ratatouille, that would cool at night, Gasteau's sign blinking on and off and the city of lights in miniature.

Though obviously Bugsland is on the opposite scale of SBLCB, I think a similar outdoor ride through the world of the bugs might be fun, though with large bug animatronics. Would require a lot of land. They could make the boats look like leaves, and maybe even add some minor falls like in Pirates.

I wonder if anybody ever thought of putting some small figures into the attraction, such as a Princess Merida figure on her horse (I guess just a small plastic model), zipping around a forest on an unseen tract for a second when the boat passes?

 

[jt04]

BTW- Toad Hall was moved back when I was down at the park and most of the budget was used to build Eric's Castle, Belle's house and Agrabah. Toad got the short end, but could use better landscaping and TLC for sure.

DaMouse blog has photos of the new skyline between Fantasyland and Liberty Square. It gets more impressive by the day. I now see where they are going with the village and tower in the background (not added yet).

Pretty sure it is inevitable that the facades for PPF and IaSW will be going.

In the LOTR movies Peter Jackson built sets that he called "Bigatures" as opposed to "Miniatures". Seems like the same can be said of much of what we are seeing with the FLE. More and more it seems WDI is building larger scale environments that have two or three horizons which create a great sense of place and immersion.

I think you started a trend with your AiW work at TDS.

 

[lazyboy97o]

"Architecture and the lost art of Drawing"
Something I've been ranting about, especially when it comes to character architecture and classical design, but when the New York Times calls it out, it's a better read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/o...-lost-art-of-drawing.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

That's not just the New York Times, it is Michael Graves, architect of the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin, Team Disney Burbank Building, Hotel New York, and many other non-Disney related projects.

 

[krash9924]

Eddie,

With all the talk of lands these days from Avatarland to Cars/Pixar to Star Wars, which would you most like to see in a Disney park? Or is there another franchise that would work? Or maybe a land tied to something else such as historical? mythical?

And as a designer how hard would it be to adapt someone elses world but keep your own style?

My own personal two cents is that Avatarland does nothing for me, its not a place that I have an invested interest in, I saw the movie and thought it was pretty but nothing emotional for me. When I think of Potter, Star Wars and Pixar there is an emotional long term attachment. Star Wars seems like the logical slam dunk but Disney has yet to pull the trigger.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think you started a trend with your AiW work at TDS.

I think you mean AIW (Queen of Hearts Banquet Hall) at TDL. Interesting to note that Jon Georges was the producer on those TDL projects and is also a producer on Snow White Mine and some of the other NFL projects. It takes a bit of guts to drive down the forced perspective path as if you blow it, you are left with a great big failed illusion. I hope the success of QOH in some way gave them confidence in doing those distant horizons. I was encouraged by Tony as he was never afraid to use stagecraft like that as long as someone worked it out.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie,

With all the talk of lands these days from Avatarland to Cars/Pixar to Star Wars, which would you most like to see in a Disney park? Or is there another franchise that would work? Or maybe a land tied to something else such as historical? mythical?

And as a designer how hard would it be to adapt someone elses world but keep your own style?

My own personal two cents is that Avatarland does nothing for me, its not a place that I have an invested interest in, I saw the movie and thought it was pretty but nothing emotional for me. When I think of Potter, Star Wars and Pixar there is an emotional long term attachment. Star Wars seems like the logical slam dunk but Disney has yet to pull the trigger.

StarWars or Tron. SW is the bigger franchise with more potential, but Tron to me is more interesting and less exposed. You do get sick of repurposing the design from movies and your only signature is in how you stage those elements into a compelling composition that perhaps has not been experienced.

 

[bdearl41]

STAR WARS! A park could consist of Tatooine, Hoth, Dagobah, Naboo, and Coruscant!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

StarWars or Tron. SW is the bigger franchise with more potential, but Tron to me is more interesting and less exposed. You do get sick of repurposing the design from movies and your only signature is in how you stage those elements into a compelling composition that perhaps has not been experienced.

Visually, Tron Legacy was great. I personally really loved the idea of a sequel, and didn't really care about the storyline weaknesses as I've watched the original Tron dozens, if not hundreds of times . . . but I feel kinda out-of-date for saying so as I feel I'm the exception.

I'm not sure how popular Tron is with the young crowd, or even if this matters. At least Tron 3 is on the horizon, and it is a 100% Disney owned franchise, so no need to placate somebody outside the company.

A Tron inspired ride would be 100% eye candy, and IMHO, much easier to build than a Star Wars land given that much of it would be darkness punctuated with heavily stylized LED lights. I guess Test Track will be a trial run to see if this concept works.

But . . . Tron 3 won't start production until 2014, and Disney hasn't done much in Disneyland to put the characters/world out there. I mean, the second floor of the Starcade is full of retro-Tron games that are collecting dust. I figure they would at least put those to use, or build a small little "End of the Line" counter service place that serves Tron inspired drinks or something. I have the perception that Tron doesn't have enough cheerleaders inside the company for a Tron-inspired attraction to ever be built.

 

[jt04]

I think you mean AIW (Queen of Hearts Banquet Hall) at TDL. Interesting to note that Jon Georges was the producer on those TDL projects and is also a producer on Snow White Mine and some of the other NFL projects. It takes a bit of guts to drive down the forced perspective path as if you blow it, you are left with a great big failed illusion. I hope the success of QOH in some way gave them confidence in doing those distant horizons. I was encouraged by Tony as he was never afraid to use stagecraft like that as long as someone worked it out.

I was talking about the exterior and the castle which is really cool. Perfect for the story. And it does appear to have influenced what is happening at MK's FL.

I am not sure if you are familiar with this blog.... http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com but if not I think you would find it well written and worth your time. She knows her stuff although not part of WDI as far as I can tell. She mentioned a couple years ago about the concept of creating forced perspective horizons. I am taking it she was hearing hints of things percolating in the system.

I am a huge fan of this trend and I think it can allow for much more immersive environments at lower budgets. And with pre-visualization tech it takes some of the risk out of it. But there is still probably some risk. Would love to see it applied to the new Tommorowland rumored for DL.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was talking about the exterior and the castle which is really cool. Perfect for the story. And it does appear to have influenced what is happening at MK's FL.

I am not sure if you are familiar with this blog.... http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com but if not I think you would find it well written and worth your time. She knows her stuff although not part of WDI as far as I can tell. She mentioned a couple years ago about the concept of creating forced perspective horizons. I am taking it she was hearing hints of things percolating in the system.

I am a huge fan of this trend and I think it can allow for much more immersive environments at lower budgets. And with pre-visualization tech it takes some of the risk out of it. But there is still probably some risk. Would love to see it applied to the new Tommorowland rumored for DL.

Just checked out that blog, a good read, well written.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I spent a wonderful afternoon with Ex Imagineer and Landscape guru Paul Comstock. I asked him if he agreed with the old alleged Walt quote "Trees have no scale". Maybe they are a good glue between lands and landscaping primally holds the parks together with their optimism and sense of well being. they do tell stories as Paul brought out. He does believe they do have or lend scale and went on to discuss relative leaf size, foreground and background, and the whole process to planting the Matterhorn and forcing perspective right down to needle size and color depth. Comstock also mentioned that trees that are too common are harder to cheat with as we are all too subconsciously familiar with them. Interesting guy!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I spent a wonderful afternoon with Ex Imagineer and Landscape guru Paul Comstock. I asked him if he agreed with the old alleged Walt quote "Trees have no scale". Maybe they are a good glue between lands and landscaping primally holds the parks together with their optimism and sense of well being. they do tell stories as Paul brought out. He does believe they do have or lend scale and went on to discuss relative leaf size, foreground and background, and the whole process to planting the Matterhorn and forcing perspective right down to needle size and color depth. Comstock also mentioned that trees that are too common are harder to cheat with as we are all too subconsciously familiar with them. Interesting guy!

Awesome. Disneyland is practically a botanical garden, and the trees/plants are primarily responsible for that optimistic feeling, IMHO, in addition to the architecture. If you go to City Hall, they have a book which lists all of the plants in the park. There is also a website, plantsofdisneyland.com, which lists some of the plants. I know Matterhorn has a Chinese Tallow plant, and that the trees in front of the entrance of Disneyland are paperbark trees, beautifully used in Disneyland, but both actually classified as invasive trees.

I always find it amazing how plants are pruned and maintained differently in different lands. They really went all out for Carsland, even apparently coming up with some new plants hybrids.

Here's some great videos on the landscaping around Carsland:





One tree I haven't seen, but I think would be great for something is the contorted jujube, it grows into this great contorted form with twisted grey bark.

The fruit taste amazing as well (I've got one in my front yard), and they fruit within the first year or two and grow something like 3 feet a year, faster than any tree I've ever seen. Contorted jujube does have *very* sharp spines, so would need to be put out of reach of guests.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Speaking of the variety of plant life at Disneyland, has anyone noticed the wildlife there (no, I'm not talking about the cats)?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Sure. There are the Fry stealing Sparrows and of course, the Ducks. When I worked at Sunkist in Adventureland, we were dared to spend the night in the rat infested upstairs storage room filled with bags of sugar. I never did it. I know TSI had lots of rats.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Sure. There are the Fry stealing Sparrows and of course, the Ducks. When I worked at Sunkist in Adventureland, we were dared to spend the night in the rat infested upstairs storage room filled with bags of sugar. I never did it. I know TSI had lots of rats.

That's disgusting. When I worked in Fantasyland, I always saw mice backstage and it creeped me out. I also nearly ran over a cat while driving the Casey Jr. one day.

I've seen so many types of birds there. Turtles and fish. I miss the swans that used to swim in the moat.