Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Pixiedustmaker]

I enjoy the Nemo Ride now that I feel I can handle the cramped quarters, as I love the experience of riding the Subs itself. It's a bit too much of a book report, and too driven by dialog, but it's fun for kids as they scream bloody murder when Nemo comes by their window.

Loading the subs is probably a pain for castmembers, plus I think that some of the larger guests might not like the relatively smaller seats in the ride.

It is true that the ride is somewhat of a book report. I would guess that in Nemo 2 they plot would have to be different, unless they are going the route of Home Alone 2 . . . probably not.

 

[ChrisFL]

I really wish we had a ship like the Columbia here at WDW. Honestly, when I visited DL in 2005, I didn't even realize they had such a ship. Since then I've been on the similar ship at Tokyo DisneySea (Ironically? NOT called the Columbia, that's what the Steamship in American Waterfront is called) which I loved but it doesn't go anywhere

 

[ChrisFL]

It is true that the ride is somewhat of a book report. I would guess that in Nemo 2 they plot would have to be different, unless they are going the route of Home Alone 2 . . . probably not.

I suppose that Nemo must get lost for it to be "Finding Nemo" right?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Notice the difference in Nautical outdoor vending and serious theming of the ship itself.

The Columbia is probably my favorite attraction as the below decks are beautifully done.

View attachment 28100

I never really got that new vending thing they put outside of the Mark Twain/Columbia landing, very un-serious, and a weird paint job I don't get. Originally, I think this structure was a DVC booth, or something for the cruises, and they wanted to play up the idea of taking a trip (albeit inside of Disneyland).

I would have liked a more rickety-wood type thing with a connection to the land, like a "poorly" painted sign that reads "Tom Sawyer's Lemunade Stand", or "Mike Fink's Whiskey Barrel", or something like that would have added to the land, rather than trying to just blend in.

 

[MarkTwain]

A little random, but I was with the family in DC last week, and while we were at the Air & Space Museum, we checked out an exhibit on the history of contemporary airliner design. One display talked about how an Ecuadorian airline commissioned Alexander Calder to paint their airplanes in a way that would drum up interest in travel to South America. The results were absolutely stunning:

http://www.braniffpages.com/calder/calder.html

I'm not sure why I found this so intriguing, except... they're just so colorful! I guess it also made me realize how humdrum modern airplane design has become for a concept (flying) so inspiring. Aside from the occasional Shamu airplane, you don't really see transit, and especially air transport, trying to visually inspire anyone these days.

Know of any other examples like this?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

A little random, but I was with the family in DC last week, and while we were at the Air & Space Museum, we checked out an exhibit on the history of contemporary airliner design. One display talked about how an Ecuadorian airline commissioned Alexander Calder to paint their airplanes in a way that would drum up interest in travel to South America. The results were absolutely stunning:

http://www.braniffpages.com/calder/calder.html

I'm not sure why I found this so intriguing, except... they're just so colorful! I guess it also made me realize how humdrum modern airplane design has become for a concept (flying) so inspiring. Aside from the occasional Shamu airplane, you don't really see transit, and especially air transport, trying to visually inspire anyone these days.

Know of any other examples like this?

Thanks for the link, interesting seeing minimalist contemporary art on planes. If you want to see airplane paint jobs, I just went to Google Image and searched "cool airplane paint jobs".

 

[MarkTwain]

Thanks for the link, interesting seeing minimalist contemporary art on planes. If you want to see airplane paint jobs, I just went to Google Image and searched "cool airplane paint jobs".

I just did, and there were definitely some interesting results that came up. I think another thing that was interesting about the Calder case was that they thought to bring in an acclaimed, world-famous artist to paint the airplanes. As a result, you can really tell they're treating the airplane as a blank canvas that's as legitimate a medium for abstract and "real" art as any museum piece, and not just a surface for branding/gimmicks.

Hmm... this is starting to sound like those monorail discussions...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

BTW- DING! I am a big Braniff fan and especially the Pucci "Jet strip" flight attendant fashions and Alexander Girard "mod" designs. So cool. Same site has their Concorde ideas.

http://www.braniffpages.com/1965/1965.html

Calder is also a fave, and the whole idea that Braniff was an art driven airline always intrigued me. Virgin is the next best thing today. An honor to have those links and a Braniff discussion on this thread. What do you think of their "Designer Tomorrowland" for real? Check out the little ad for Jet Rail on that page. So many cool ideas they had back then.

 

[AEfx]

I dunno. It's a tough one. I like the subs, but the ride hasn't been a must-do for me.

As a kid I was so enamored with our 20K at MK - but whenever I went to WDW it was always October which meant it was usually down to be drained/refurb'd. I have some great pics from the Skyway of it empty, though - but I never got to ride it.

So I was very excited that they were resurrected at Disneyland. I went on it a few times - but while I love the look of the lagoon, and the fact you are "really" underwater (sort of)....I prefer Nemo at the Seas. Those subs are just uncomfortable - I had to stoop down to look out the little dirty porthole, you can see so little - it felt like a tiny shadow box just being dragged past you. While I know they can't show much more up and down as it would show things not meant to be seen, but if there was at least a wider angle it would be more pleasant.

At this point, as much as I hate to say it - it seems like such a waste, and it especially irritates me that it has such limited accessibility. The only reason they kept those dank old subs was so they wouldn't have to spend the money to make it ADA-compliant, which kind of doesn't sit well with me in in the 21st century. And it's not just wheelchairs - the ride requires one to be quite agile to go down the steep, winding steps.

I wish they had really put the big bucks into it and truly redone it - as it stands now, I really do prefer The Seas with Nemo, as it's at least a more comfortable experience, and I actually find the under-water tank effects at the end are more convincing than the ones in the Subs.

I'm glad to have been able to ride it, but stooping over and watching a ride from a tiny little window really doesn't feel like a grand experience it could have been.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

So I was very excited that they were resurrected at Disneyland. I went on it a few times - but while I love the look of the lagoon, and the fact you are "really" underwater (sort of)....I prefer Nemo at the Seas. Those subs are just uncomfortable - I had to stoop down to look out the little dirty porthole, you can see so little - it felt like a tiny shadow box just being dragged past you. While I know they can't show much more up and down as it would show things not meant to be seen, but if there was at least a wider angle it would be more pleasant.

At this point, as much as I hate to say it - it seems like such a waste, and it especially irritates me that it has such limited accessibility. The only reason they kept those dank old subs was so they wouldn't have to spend the money to make it ADA-compliant, which kind of doesn't sit well with me in in the 21st century. And it's not just wheelchairs - the ride requires one to be quite agile to go down the steep, winding steps.

I also like Nemo in Epcot better as you get to see real live fish, and the effects look better when you don't have to look through a porthole, though I will say that the porthole lends some believability that you are under water. I think they were going to make a big long window on the side of the sub, but maybe for structural reasons, this would have been too hard.

Nemo & Friends in Epcot has a great queue too, you feel like you're actually walking from a beach to under the ocean.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The Columbia is probably my favorite attraction as the below decks are beautifully done.

The Columbia sure has a lot of great details. While WDW and Disney have a lot of good restaurants, they don't really have one where you are immersed to this level of detail. I remember reading somewhere that a "Next Gen" pirate ride would have a similar boat ride, but at some point you get off and explore a pirate's village.

Well, everybody would want to do this so they'd have to limit admission to a pirate village/area somehow, maybe they could have it so if you have a reservation you can get off the boat (or at least further than the dock) and eat inside of a large pirate ship inside the ride. It would have to be pretty big to fit a decent number of guests, but what a dining experience! They could use such a large show building for part of the ride, or build the pirate ship so that half of it is outside, but that would spoil the view I guess.

I've always wanted to eat on a pirate ship like in the film:

More authentic looking than the cleanly staged museum look of Liberty Tree Inn.

 

[AEfx]

I also like Nemo in Epcot better as you get to see real live fish, and the effects look better when you don't have to look through a porthole, though I will say that the porthole lends some believability that you are under water. I think they were going to make a big long window on the side of the sub, but maybe for structural reasons, this would have been too hard.

Nemo & Friends in Epcot has a great queue too, you feel like you're actually walking from a beach to under the ocean.

Definitely agree about the queue - it's rather simple, but effective - and nothing like the standard-local-theme-park switchback at the Subs (though the Lagoon is gorgeous of course).

The reason they didn't change the structure of the subs was to keep them from having to make the ride ADA-compliant. If they had, they could have never opened as there is no way for anyone for any type of mobility issue to get up and down the things as they stand now. They would have had to design and fabricate all-new ride vehicles.

I guess that's kind of why it sticks into the negative side further for me as well - it's a "cheap trick" to get around the law, they really scraped by the skin of the shark tooth on that one, since essentially everything was gutted and rebuilt, but since the shell remained they were allowed to stay under 1970's/80's rules (i.e., no accommodation for anyone with any type of mobility issue).

But even as an able-bodied person, I found the steps steep - and still, the ride itself kind of lackluster when they could have really made something spectacular AND made it accessible.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Definitely agree about the queue - it's rather simple, but effective - and nothing like the standard-local-theme-park switchback at the Subs (though the Lagoon is gorgeous of course).

The reason they didn't change the structure of the subs was to keep them from having to make the ride ADA-compliant. If they had, they could have never opened as there is no way for anyone for any type of mobility issue to get up and down the things as they stand now. They would have had to design and fabricate all-new ride vehicles.

I guess that's kind of why it sticks into the negative side further for me as well - it's a "cheap trick" to get around the law, they really scraped by the skin of the shark tooth on that one, since essentially everything was gutted and rebuilt, but since the shell remained they were allowed to stay under 1970's/80's rules (i.e., no accommodation for anyone with any type of mobility issue).

But even as an able-bodied person, I found the steps steep - and still, the ride itself kind of lackluster when they could have really made something spectacular AND made it accessible.

Yeah, I think Disney should make the effort to make rides ADA accessible. They could have built just one sub that is specially made which would have a large hatch and an electric lift for wheel chairs, maybe extend the dock and load this one separately in between the other subs.

But really, if they redesigned the subs themselves so everybody could "walk" on, then wait times would fall, IMHO. Wouldn't be that hard, simply make subs that are wider by maybe 4-5 feet (hopefully the ride track wouldn't need to changed that much) and built a sloped walkway down the middle of the sub. When the sub docks, a gangway swings over and you walk down into the middle of the sub, and toward one end where you make a U-turn and sit down. Must faster loading, plus people in wheel chairs could be wheeled down, the wheel chair stowed, and they could sit at the end.

Less work for CMs, and they could safely unload/load two subs at the same time.

 

[flynnibus]

@AEfx it's not the Ada that is the reason they kept the hulls... It's the geometry of the vehicles to the ride area. There is no grandfathering with the type of overhaul they did and they put in the Static viewing room to address Ada concerns.

There is no value in redesigning the sub itself to be bigger unless you changed the lagoon and show building footprints too. And there just isn't room for that. Only available direction is down

 

[flynnibus]

@Pixiedustmaker it's impossible to build a ramp in the boats that would be ada compliant so there is no point in worrying about ramps for chairs. The ramp would have to be over 80+ ft long! Never mind the width and floor space needed.

Disney could have simply argued it wasn't economically feasible... But Disney went ahead and went the extra mile to build the static viewing area for people who couldn't ride the subs themselves

 

[Eddie Sotto]

ADA covers more than wheelchairs, you've got to remove "barriers" from all disabilities which is nearly impossible (adding subtitles), but I think WDI did a great job given the age of the attraction. I am claustrophobic and used the room to see the show and it gives you a very good experience. Some wheelchair bound guests cannot look directly forward or do so at head level, or their line of sight and physical positioning means the chair has to be angled for them to see out, so the windows of the sub would not work even if you were able to fit an entire chair in there. They are too low and small. Others are affected by the strobes and sounds, so it would be hard to adapt the show for all types of ailments.

 

[lazyboy97o]

ADA covers more than wheelchairs, you've got to remove "barriers" from all disabilities which is nearly impossible (adding subtitles)

The closed captioning on the queue video for the tram tour at Universal Studios Hollywood was driving me nuts when I was there not too long ago. It was clearly not thought out completely. The captions kept covering up other information that was only being presented through text. It was not critical information, but in a big, long, winding queue with not much more than sweaty bodies to look at, it would have been nice to see part of what was being shown.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I am claustrophobic and used the room to see the show and it gives you a very good experience.

I'm not terribly claustrophobic when it comes to theme park rides, I guess I trust Disney, but one ride where I got a little claustrophobic was Alien Encounter in the Magic Kingdom (before they went with Stitch). Wow! I've never had such an uncomfortable time, I was sort of scrunched down in my seat, so when the shoulder pads touched down to I guess judge my height, they really pushed me down uncomfortably during the show.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm not terribly claustrophobic when it comes to theme park rides, I guess I trust Disney, but one ride where I got a little claustrophobic was Alien Encounter in the Magic Kingdom (before they went with Stitch). Wow! I've never had such an uncomfortable time, I was sort of scrunched down in my seat, so when the shoulder pads touched down to I guess judge my height, they really pushed me down uncomfortably during the show.

A story I heard back at WDI was that those restraints coming down triggered someone with Tourette syndrome and they started screaming and swearing every other word at the Alien beast till the show was over and they could come and get them out. Pre YouTube.

 

[MarkTwain]

@Pixiedustmaker it's impossible to build a ramp in the boats that would be ada compliant so there is no point in worrying about ramps for chairs. The ramp would have to be over 80+ ft long! Never mind the width and floor space needed.

Disney could have simply argued it wasn't economically feasible... But Disney went ahead and went the extra mile to build the static viewing area for people who couldn't ride the subs themselves

ADA actually allows for what they call "acceptable creative solutions" or something similar for accessibility problems. I remember during my building technologies course, my professor asked for examples of such solutions and I was able to offer the on-land submarine Disneyland built. If anything, it's the on-land sub that makes the attraction compliant.