Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

Security

I remember during construction how theft was pretty bad. So the security would open every trunk to inspect it upon leaving. I had mine full of antique hardware for Main Street and they opened it, saw it, and all I had to say was I'm bringing it back tomorrow and they let me go no questions asked. Good thing I did.

 

[ChrisFL]

Me I'm neither American nor French but totally love them both.

To further lighten the mood. As a tribute to Eddie - what do you do when you love Disney AND Apple?

Brilliant!!

 

[unkadug]

Good question. Not as far as I know. We were well underway with design by then and knew of it. You look at it from a cultural aspect, not so much anything else. I'm sure Tony went. For some reason, I thought it opened even later than that. I travelled with Michael Eisner and Frank Wells to many of the parks around Europe and they were bad copies of Disneyland. He was worried that guests would think we copied them!

Kind of along the same lines, what was the opinion of Japans total ripoff park Nara Dreamland?

 

[KevinYee]

My favorite European ripoff is Phantasialand in Bruehl, Germany. Not sure if that opened before EDL.

The "ED" in EDL makes me want to mentally call it Eddieland in this thread!!

 

[IlikeDW]

My favorite European ripoff is Phantasialand in Bruehl, Germany. Not sure if that opened before EDL.

The "ED" in EDL makes me want to mentally call it Eddieland in this thread!!

Was open long before EDL Eddie had some interactions with the, I think it was the daughter of the owner of phantasiland, we discussed some ways back(maybe in part one) MY granmothers hopse was about 30 min away from the park and I went several times in early to mid '80s

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Was open long before EDL Eddie had some interactions with the, I think it was the daughter of the owner of phantasiland, we discussed some ways back(maybe in part one) MY granmothers hopse was about 30 min away from the park and I went several times in early to mid '80s

I worked at Knott's with a woman named Britta who came to the USA to learn about theme parks. Her father I believe was the owner of Phantasialand.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My favorite European ripoff is Phantasialand in Bruehl, Germany. Not sure if that opened before EDL.

The "ED" in EDL makes me want to mentally call it Eddieland in this thread!!

1967. Very much of a lift of Disney at the time.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Kind of along the same lines, what was the opinion of Japans total ripoff park Nara Dreamland?

Awful. Like a bad cardboard model.

http://www.michaeljohngrist.com/2010/09/nara-dreamland-japans-last-abandoned-theme-park/


Here's another one in China. Spooky.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/12/chinas-abandoned-wonderland/100207/

What's the lesson here?

There are people out there that think they can copy Disney without any understanding of what or why it "works" for the guest. You can make a cheap Xerox of the park, leave out the detail, passion, care, branded characters, and intelligence that the 1G Imagineers brought to it by being artists themselves, and think you can just flip the switch and it works. Not. At least not long term. (Maybe they did try and were just lame? Ok. Maybe.) These poser parks are what super smart accountants thought a Disneyland was. Who needs designers? They just get in the way and cost you money. The guest will never know. Just to be safe, drop in a few wood coasters and some carnival rides.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

There are people out there that think they can copy Disney without any understanding of what or why it "works" for the guest. You can make a cheap Xerox of the park, leave out the detail, passion, care, branded characters, and intelligence that the 1G Imagineers brought to it by being artists themselves, and think you can just flip the switch and it works. Not. At least not long term. (Maybe they did try and were just lame? Ok. Maybe.) These poser parks are what super smart accountants thought a Disneyland was. Who needs designers? They just get in the way and cost you money. The guest will never know.

That is the best assessment I've ever read of Disney management in the past two decades. :lookaroun

 

[ChrisFL]

I loved studying Nara Dreamland when I saw trip reports several years ago, as it was still open.

The way they blatantly copied SO MANY things from Disneyland, and yet, were still able to seemingly do it without any soul.

Its a great study in contrasts IMO, to see in reality what it means when Disneyland is "more than the sum of its parts"

 

[flynnibus]

What's the lesson here?

There are people out there that think they can copy Disney without any understanding of what or why it "works" for the guest. You can make a cheap Xerox of the park, leave out the detail, passion, care, branded characters, and intelligence that the 1G Imagineers brought to it by being artists themselves, and think you can just flip the switch and it works. Not. At least not long term. (Maybe they did try and were just lame? Ok. Maybe.) These poser parks are what super smart accountants thought a Disneyland was. Who needs designers? They just get in the way and cost you money. The guest will never know. Just to be safe, drop in a few wood coasters and some carnival rides.

thank you for that. That is what drives me nuts when online fans critique attractions on the basis of they didn't repeat themselves by doing the same thing that worked somewhere else. The design is not just 'what' but why. Without understanding why, you can't copy successfully because you can't adapt

 

[Eddie Sotto]

thank you for that. That is what drives me nuts when online fans critique attractions on the basis of they didn't repeat themselves by doing the same thing that worked somewhere else. The design is not just 'what' but why. Without understanding why, you can't copy successfully because you can't adapt

Well said. To us, building another Main Street USA in Paris where they have no nostalgia for it, is a huge "why?". If you have no connection to the "land", what will they love about it and why will they like it? So we did our best to anticipate "what?" they might like based on movies that did well or "how" they perceived an American Main Street, and that was how the 20's version was born. The company sent us back to the original, but we still tweaked the design and content quite a bit to meet the audience.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I loved studying Nara Dreamland when I saw trip reports several years ago, as it was still open.

The way they blatantly copied SO MANY things from Disneyland, and yet, were still able to seemingly do it without any soul.

Its a great study in contrasts IMO, to see in reality what it means when Disneyland is "more than the sum of its parts"

Dreamland never suspended disbelief as good fantasy does. Nothing reinforced your belief that you were immersed in anything but bad design. The closer you got the cheaper it looks. Kyoto is a better theme park and always will be.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That is the best assessment I've ever read of Disney management in the past two decades. :lookaroun

This lesson was hopefully learned as they are writing big checks at DCA to remedy that park.

 

[KevinYee]

Dreamland never suspended disbelief as good fantasy does. Nothing reinforced your belief that you were immersed in anything but bad design. The closer you got the cheaper it looks. Kyoto is a better theme park and always will be.

Phantasialand was guilty of this as well. But as bad as it was to see their version of the Tiki Room and the monorail (to name only a few), it was still impossible to look away, in exactly the same way that you can't stop watching Plan 9 From Outer Space if you're a genre fanatic. It's mimicry so poor it's almost its own art form.

Of course, someone who only loves Romantic Comedies might hate Plan 9. And someone who doesn't live/breathe Disney parks on a daily basis might hate Phantasialand.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Friday nights 20 years ago.

Over beers we used to develop the tribute Main Street window graphics that would have the person's name and fake business, but with extra effort .... if you read the letters vertically or as an individual pane of glass (there were muntins that divided the window in some cases) it said something quite different and funny! We had some poor taste ones on cocktail napkins, but lost our nerve in the end when the beer wore off. None of them made it. The windows themselves were funny if you knew the person.

Robert Fitzpatrick, the project director used to have a dry and explosive temper so we cast his window as a Tailoring business. Marty wrote "a fit for every occasion". That was the extent of the inside humor.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Phantasialand was guilty of this as well. But as bad as it was to see their version of the Tiki Room and the monorail (to name only a few), it was still impossible to look away, in exactly the same way that you can't stop watching Plan 9 From Outer Space if you're a genre fanatic. It's mimicry so poor it's almost its own art form.

Of course, someone who only loves Romantic Comedies might hate Plan 9. And someone who doesn't live/breathe Disney parks on a daily basis might hate Phantasialand.

I agree with you. Almost like primitive folk art, where the technique is pretty lame but the sincerity and expression wins out. It's not like they deliberately did a bad job, but it was what it was. The other Japanese efforts were perhaps less earnest. In fact, the owners of these German parks were proud to show Eisner and all of us their attractions as if they had done well! Europa Park made him pose with their ripoff of Mickey, Europa Mouse! What nerve! Like being asked to autograph bootleg videos of your movie. It was an homage of sorts. This internally drove him nuts, but he was super gracious and charming anyway. Michael Eisner can be a very good sport.

BTW- Who am I to say anything, I worked at Knott's which is literally folk art compared to Disney (but we didn't copy them, they copied us!)

 

[Eddie Sotto]

10k will get you in this.

First look at the interiors of the exclusive sequel to Club 33, the 1901 Club. Thoughts?

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2012/05/first-look-at-carthay-circle-theatre.html

 

[Eddie Sotto]

DLP Book is now shipping BTW

To those of you new to the thread, this long awaited reprint of the DLP Book is hopping off of the presses. Easily the best thing to happen on the 20th of DLP. Truly worth the price.

http://neverlandeditions.blogspot.com/2012/04/lll.html

 

[Eddie Sotto]

New Main Street at DL

Here's some more pics of the new remodel work on Main Street. Lots going on.

http://micechat.com/blogs/dateline-...-mermaids-re-openings-remodels-revisions.html