Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
As an American with French friends, I think these comments are pretty much bordering on racism. I don't really think the French are the ones being pretentious here. These attitudes are about as correct as the US being full of nothing but cowboys and hot dog carts. :brick:

As an American who has lived more than a year in Europe, I think Eddie's comments are spot-on, and not racist at all.

It could very well be that your French contacts are world citizens with no sense of French superiority. But it would be another thing entirely to claim that there is no such thing as a francophone culture that disdains American-style culture as, well, "low" culture. Of course many French citizens thought this, especially in 1992. Many still do.
 
And when did French become a race?

It's an ethnicity. Are you seriously playing semantics with this one? Are antisemites not racists either? :rolleyes:

And my friends live in France. They're not "world citizens." They're also a lot more laid back than many Americans I know. Far less judgmental as well.
 

Knothead

Well-Known Member
It's an ethnicity. Are you seriously playing semantics with this one? Are antisemites not racists either? :rolleyes:

And my friends live in France. They're not "world citizens." They're also a lot more laid back than many Americans I know. Far less judgmental as well.

Um, no dude, being French, or American, or whatever, is a nationality. Something invisible and intangible and something that can change. A persons ethnicity or race is determined by genetics and cannot be changed (yet).

Anti Semites are not racists because, again, Judaism is a religion, not a race. Go back under your bridge.

Many people appreciate this thread and are very grateful that Mr. Sotto takes time to come down to our level to help us understand some really great things about some really great places. Let's not bring this whole thing down to your level.
 
Um, no dude, being French, or American, or whatever, is a nationality. Something invisible and intangible and something that can change. A persons ethnicity or race is determined by genetics and cannot be changed (yet).

Anti Semites are not racists because, again, Judaism is a religion, not a race. Go back under your bridge.

Many people appreciate this thread and are very grateful that Mr. Sotto takes time to come down to our level to help us understand some really great things about some really great places. Let's not bring this whole thing down to your level.

French is an ethnicity. I'm sorry, I'm sure there's a lot of Canadians happy you're claiming they're not French.

And you're defending anti-semites now, because logically, you had to do that to justify your childishly simplistic reasoning. Just excellent. You seem very ignorant right now. I know probably 30 Jews that don't practice any religion. If you really think that simplistically, I think you need more education or something.

And I don't have to worship anyone who "comes down to our level" by agreeing with everything he says. Last I checked, the United States, like France, is a culture where everyone is equal. I can say whatever I want. Anyone that thinks they shouldn't be disagreed with is pretentious indeed. Generally, arguing someone is above you is not a good defense.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
As an American with French friends, I think these comments are pretty much bordering on racism. I don't really think the French are the ones being pretentious here. These attitudes are about as correct as the US being full of nothing but cowboys and hot dog carts. :brick:

I hope you don't see my thoughts in a pretentious or racist light as they are not meant to be taken that way. The experiences I cited really happened and are not of course intended to represent the French people, just an individual I spoke with. Our goals were to create a richer experience for them as we saw their tastes as more sophisticated and wanted to reach them with more detail and richness than less. Hardly a slur. If you read what the French leaders said who were elected officials against the park, saw the anti-mickey signs along the sides of the road, then naturally you can think that their voice represents more than one person. Most of my department was French and believed in the project and had to explain to their own why it was so special. Today they are devout fans and have done an amazing job given the dire fiscal situation that have to deal with. My comments about how the parents were concerned about their kids loving Disneyland came from real people, I did not make that up. All people of course, don't feel that way as the park is loved. This was just may experience. They really do ban English words. That's their right.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/world/117078-french-say-non-to-english-words

The park is visited by Europeans and all cultures, yet as with all Disney parks, cultures accept and treat each park according to their own customs and experience. Wine is like bread in France and considered part of a meal. The guests asked for it. So we added it. DLP sells less souvenirs. These are statistics made by observation. I was later the VP in charge of design at TDL in Japan. Huge difference in how the CM's overall work, act, and how guests see the product. Vandalism is higher and lower in some parks. No one applies an ethnicity to any of this, it's just a statistic. Same is true here in the USA.

We have French posters that read this column and Alain Littaye is a good friend of mine and we support him as well. I have many French friends as well living there that I met on the project. Paris is my second home and we will return there this year to see some of our friends. I found that there is an unfair American stereotype about the French in general and vice versa. I sat through countless dinners being insulted about the park (by Americans as well) but that is considered the "art of conversation" over there and you give it back. It is brinksmanship. If you take the time to get to really know French people (or any culture) you can make lifelong friends as I have and no doubt you have. My comments come from them telling me what they feel and how others saw Disney, how they judged the park prior to it's opening, and from living there socializing with them. Some felt the USA was Elvis and Hot Dogs, others more than that. MSUSA did not want to speak politically, but culturally to expand that identity of who Americans were. I am from a Sicilian Immigrant family, and latin just the same. My point is, that after all of that controversy, the park was embraced once they experienced it. Like we see on these and other message boards, the fans worry and complain about something new, only to accept it once they see it later. Fear of the unknown.

Seriously, I felt part of our role over there was to exceed expectations and leave the largest cultural statement in US history on their soil. They gave the USA the Statue of Liberty, to remind Americans about what they had, and they got Disneyland, a place to remind them about the child that lives inside all of us.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
DLP Story of the Day, 20 Years out.

Here's an opening week article on DLP. This was the atmosphere for which we spent 5 years building the park.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...8_1_mickey-mouse-cultural-chernobyl-amusement

Excerpted quotes from the article.

"At the core, America gives us the same effect as ice cream," the journalist Jacqueline Remy wrote recently in the weekly magazine L'Express. "It makes us sick, but we keep asking for it."


None of this is very amusing to numerous French intellectuals, one of whom called EuroDisney a "cultural Chernobyl."

Yet except for the isolated voice of the French Communist Party and a handful of demonstrators who threw eggs and ketchup at Disney Company President Michael Eisner when he arrived in Paris in October 1989 to launch EuroDisney's stock on the Paris Bourse, there has hardly been a trace of anxiety at the arrival of such an American icon in France.

Until recently.

"A cultural Chernobyl, one could not say it better," Jaen Cau wrote, picking up the phrase attributed to Ariane Mnouchkine, a French director. "One that will contaminate millions of children (and their parents), castrate their imaginations, paw their dreams with greenish hands. Green, like the color of the dollar."

The debate focuses on the argument that allowing phenomena such as EuroDisney on French soil will prompt French culture to homogenize even more than it already has, that it will cause the French to revert to what has been termed the cults of "mercantilism" and "nihilism."
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Of all the threads that a debate over what constitutes racism would come up, This would be the last one I would expect.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Out of curiosity, would you mind answering how old your French friends are?

Varying ages, one friend is about 10 years younger than I and most are about that age as they were new to the project. Not sure how hold Didier Ghez and Alain Littaye are. I correspond with the Disney Show quality group over there and others.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
French is an ethnicity. I'm sorry, I'm sure there's a lot of Canadians happy you're claiming they're not French.

And you're defending anti-semites now, because logically, you had to do that to justify your childishly simplistic reasoning. Just excellent. You seem very ignorant right now. I know probably 30 Jews that don't practice any religion. If you really think that simplistically, I think you need more education or something.

And I don't have to worship anyone who "comes down to our level" by agreeing with everything he says. Last I checked, the United States, like France, is a culture where everyone is equal. I can say whatever I want. Anyone that thinks they shouldn't be disagreed with is pretentious indeed. Generally, arguing someone is above you is not a good defense.

Really dude. Out of all the threads on this website you choose this one!? The one where we all come to gain knowledge of how the inner workings of TWDC and WDI work. Please stay out of this thread it is very annoying to have trolls like you come in here and start stuff like this up. NOTHING Sotto said was remotely close to racism.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
To lighten things up a bit here is what Main Street USA will probably look like a few years from now.
 
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Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Really dude. Out of all the threads on this website you choose this one!? The one where we all come to gain knowledge of how the inner workings of TWDC and WDI work. Please stay out of this thread it is very annoying to have trolls like you come in here and start stuff like this up. NOTHING Sotto said was remotely close to racism.

Case closed. Next topic please.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Me I'm neither American nor French but totally love them both.

To further lighten the mood. As a tribute to Eddie - what do you do when you love Disney AND Apple?


Q2aQA.jpg
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Me I'm neither American nor French but totally love them both.

To further lighten the mood. As a tribute to Eddie - what do you do when you love Disney AND Apple?


Q2aQA.jpg

If I have to pick one, I kind of prefer Apple over Disney. There have not been as many new products to get excited about so I've kind of cooled off from my former high. I'm very excited about writing iPhone/Pad Apps and am into that right now hot and heavy. Apple is all about innovation and the future and Disney is more in the past. Cool Mac sticker! Well Done!
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
New topic: did the nearby Parc Asterix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parc_Astérix) influence any designs or decisions for EDL? It opened in 1989, I believe.

Good question. Not as far as I know. We were well underway with design by then and knew of it. You look at it from a cultural aspect, not so much anything else. I'm sure Tony went. For some reason, I thought it opened even later than that. I travelled with Michael Eisner and Frank Wells to many of the parks around Europe and they were bad copies of Disneyland. He was worried that guests would think we copied them!
 

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