DVC... Contemps south Wing is safe for now.

[disney fan 13]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I freakin' hate the DVC.

I know it is sad to see River Country rotting away, but I am also fascinated by it. During my most recent trip, I was able to walk back into the open entrance area of the former River Country and peek over the wall at the historical water park. Abandoned places always capture my interest and visiting River Country was one the highlights of my most recent vacation to Walt Disney World.

Needless to say, if a DVC resort replaces poor River Country, I'm going to be very indignant.

Trust me, I hate DVC and will never buy into it, But RC needed to be put down... ( Plus this hotel MAY get me to stay on property again)

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I just don't get why Disney is so interested in giving away all it's deluxe hotel guests to DVC. Maybe they think it's better to focus on their discretionary spending and locking them into frequent returns.. rather than invest capital in building deluxe resorts with high overhead.

I think it is safe to say that no deluxe resort will ever be built without a DVC component going forward. Disney gets new owners to pay for the building of the resort many times over in points sales. Then owners pay for nearly all of the upkeep of that resort for the next 50 years.

 

[Goofnut1980]

OK. I have a semi-random question. Can anyone say what DVC really costs to get started? I know it depends on what DVC, but I have no idea where it would even begin. I want to talk to them about it, but not look like an idiot and be completely clueless. Thanks All!

 

[flynnibus]

I think it is safe to say that no deluxe resort will ever be built without a DVC component going forward. Disney gets new owners to pay for the building of the resort many times over in points sales. Then owners pay for nearly all of the upkeep of that resort for the next 50 years.

Anyone know a site that lists how many points are available per resort total?

Looking at Sarasota Springs 2006 budget, I estimate SSR has 4,863,473 points. SSR prices were $98/$101 in the first two years.. so use $100 as an average.. that's 486 million in capital intake in initial sales (est.).

Would be interesting to find budget estimates on their cost to build to compare...

 

[flynnibus]

OK. I have a semi-random question. Can anyone say what DVC really costs to get started? I know it depends on what DVC, but I have no idea where it would even begin. I want to talk to them about it, but not look like an idiot and be completely clueless. Thanks All!

That's what they are there for! I would highly recommend letting Disney lay it all out for you.

The costs are based on how many points you buy, at what property, and how you finance the amount.

There are lots of DVC primers out there if you want to read before listening to Disney.. like
http://allears.net/acc/dvc.htm
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/dvc-for-beginners

 

[captainkidd]

OK. I have a semi-random question. Can anyone say what DVC really costs to get started? I know it depends on what DVC, but I have no idea where it would even begin. I want to talk to them about it, but not look like an idiot and be completely clueless. Thanks All!

Minimum amount of points is 160 (I believe). You can buy at different resorts, but figure on anywhere from $17k to $21k. If you finance, that figure obviously skyrockets. Then there's the little "plus annual dues" thing.

 

[captainkidd]

I just don't get why Disney is so interested in giving away all it's deluxe hotel guests to DVC. Maybe they think it's better to focus on their discretionary spending and locking them into frequent returns.. rather than invest capital in building deluxe resorts with high overhead.

Believe it or not, I think it's short term thinking. "Let's get everybody's money up front before they find someplace else to vacation."

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Believe it or not, I think it's short term thinking. "Let's get everybody's money up front before they find someplace else to vacation."

But, it isn't just up front because then owners pay dues for the life of the contract. They get the money up front and then continue to get it for the remaining years of the contracts.

 

[geubux]

It's not necessarily 'short term thinking', it's just not for everyone. In our case, because of some medical needs and the fact that I travel a lot and HATE to stand in line to eat three meals a day, it works. For others, it won't.:shrug:

 

[Hakunamatata]

Dont think it's short term thinking. DVC has been around a while.

 

[captainkidd]

Dont think it's short term thinking. DVC has been around a while.

True, but the idea is still the same. Let's get people's money up front. Always better to have a sure thing then a maybe. Can't blame Disney for that. It's smart business.

 

[tjkraz]

Anyone know a site that lists how many points are available per resort total?

Looking at Sarasota Springs 2006 budget, I estimate SSR has 4,863,473 points. SSR prices were $98/$101 in the first two years.. so use $100 as an average.. that's 486 million in capital intake in initial sales (est.).

Would be interesting to find budget estimates on their cost to build to compare...

Number of points available is pretty easy to come by. It's listed in the paperwork for each resort. However, even a rough estimate is possible by multiplying the total annual cost for a room (via point charts) by the number of rooms constructed.

The harder figure to find is construction costs.

Only one I know off the top of my head is Bay Lake Tower. Articles in the Sentinel mentioned a construction cost in the $80-100 million range. Number of points at that resort is about 5.4 million. Figure an average selling price somewhere north of $100 per point and revenues will probably reach $600 million before BLT is sold out.

Sales and marketing expenses are extremely high but with construction costs only being about 15% of the revenue, it's still a very profitable business for Disney. And it all but guarantees return trips to the theme parks & restaurants for decades to come.

BTW, by my calculations Saratoga Springs now represents over 13 million points.

 

[flynnibus]

Number of points available is pretty easy to come by. It's listed in the paperwork for each resort. However, even a rough estimate is possible by multiplying the total annual cost for a room (via point charts) by the number of rooms constructed.

Well that seems a lot harder to come by (inventory per room type) vs simply taking the numbers from the budget that list total number, and then the same number 'per point'. That gives you a direct # of points.

Edit: I do see some sites do keep an inventory of rooms available - like here http://161.58.189.97/showthread.php?t=2823943

BTW, by my calculations Saratoga Springs now represents over 13 million points.

I can't seem to find people publishing the full budgets online, only the points charts and dues summaries. the latest I can find is SSR for 2006, which lists interest income as 73,986 and that same interest per point as 0.0110 resulting in 7162181.8 for 2006, and the same calculation for 2005 giving 4863478.2 but I know they were still building beyond that time as well.

I'm suprised finding the full budgets online is so difficult given so much info about DVC being online.

 

[Goofnut1980]

That's what they are there for! I would highly recommend letting Disney lay it all out for you.

The costs are based on how many points you buy, at what property, and how you finance the amount.

There are lots of DVC primers out there if you want to read before listening to Disney.. like
http://allears.net/acc/dvc.htm
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/dvc-for-beginners

Thank you very much!

 

[Biff215]

As a recent DVC owner, a new DVC resort would be welcomed. The more options for the owners the better.

With you 100%. I agree it's not for everyone but some get way too worked up about it. The misconception that it is stealing money that the parks could use seems to be the main issue.

If this project gets moving, it seems that DVC is prepared assure there is inventory beyond BLT/AKL/GF. This certainly makes sense, but there is also more risk right now as sales have significantly dropped off and the resale market is saturated.

As others have said, if RC gets the much=needed demolition then it's worth it just on that account. If we get a link between WL and FW then even better! I took my morning jog along Bay Lake from WL to RC in December. While I would hate to lose that peaceful space, it does make for a great resort location!

 

[Longhairbear]

Our DVC is at Wilderness Lodge,, so I am loving this rumor. I'd definitely book a stay there at Wilderness Junction, if that is what it will be called.
Although, I have to say, I'd rather another DVC here in CA at Disneyland before another one in FLA at WDW. We need more DVC units, the place is always booked solid.

 

[tjkraz]

Well that seems a lot harder to come by (inventory per room type) vs simply taking the numbers from the budget that list total number, and then the same number 'per point'. That gives you a direct # of points.

Only sold points are accounted for in the budgets. Members do not pay dues on unsold inventory--Disney pays operating expenses for those rooms.

Pulling the numbers from the annual budgets is one way of approaching it but you need to know what you're looking at. And have access to the required documents.

Edit: I do see some sites do keep an inventory of rooms available - like here http://161.58.189.97/showthread.php?t=2823943

Not sure what relevance that has to this topic. Your link points to a sort of outdated reference which attempted to track unbooked rooms at DVC resorts. The only thing it did was to allow members to report dates/resorts/views which they were unable to reserve due to lack of availability.

 

[flynnibus]

Not sure what relevance that has to this topic. Your link points to a sort of outdated reference which attempted to track unbooked rooms at DVC resorts. The only thing it did was to allow members to report dates/resorts/views which they were unable to reserve due to lack of availability.

Uhhh... (from the thread).. a list of all the room types at each property

Number of villas at each DVC Resort
OKW - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 274 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 230 Lockoffs - 27 Grand Villas = 531 Units / 761 Max. Available Rooms

VB - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 18 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 36 Lockoffs - 6 Grand Villas - 112 Inn Rooms = 172 Units / 208 Max. Available Rooms

HHI - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 76 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 21 Lockoffs - 5 Grand Villas = 102 Units / 123 Max. Available Rooms

BWV - 97 Dedicated Studios - 130 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 0 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 149 Lockoffs - 7 Grand Villas = 383 Units / 532 Max. Available Rooms

VWL - 20 Dedicated Studios - 27 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 44 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 45 Lockoffs - 0 Grand Villas = 136 Units / 181 Max. Available Rooms

BCV - 36 Dedicated Studios - 20 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 78 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 74 Lockoffs - 0 Grand Villas = 208 Units / 282 Max. Available Rooms

SSR - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1Bdrm - 360 Dedicated 2Bdrm - 432 Lockoffs - 60 THV - 36 Grand Villas = 888 Units / 1320 Max. Available Rooms

AKV - 46 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1BR villas - 140 Dedicated 2BR villas - 250 Lockoffs - 22 GVs. 134 villas within Jambo House at AKL (46 Dedicated Studios, 82 Lockoff 2BRs, 6 GVs) and 324 villas in Kidani Village (140 Dedicated 2BRs, 168 Lockoff 2BRs, 16 GVs) for a total of 458 Units / 708 Max. Available Rooms

BLT - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1BR villas - 148 Dedicated 2BR villas - 133 Lockoffs - 14 Grand Villas = 295 Units / 428 Max. Available Rooms

VGC - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1BR villas - 23 Dedicated 2BR villas - 23 Lockoffs - 2 Grand Villas = 48 Units / 71 Max. Available Rooms

AHV - 0 Dedicated Studios - 0 Dedicated 1BR villas - 193 Dedicated 2BR villas - 246 Lockoffs - 21 Grand Villas = 460 Units / 706 Max. Available Rooms

 

[tjkraz]

Uhhh... (from the thread).. a list of all the room types at each property

Hmmm...link took me to a different page entirely. :shrug:

That info is exactly what I was referring to in my original post. Multiply the number of villas by the cost to book each room for a full year and you get the number of points at the resort (with some margin for error.)

There are a number of DVC point calculator apps which make the task quite simple.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Martin, how loud? This has been 2 years since the environmental studies dwg's were found and it has been quite silent since then. I would have thought this project would have been stated before the current GF project, but from what you are saying it sounds like a lot more imagination has been put into the design and the complete tie of FW, WL and the proposed DVC resort.

Do they have an available train that could be used? It seems like that would be a HUGE investment to get a working train and tracks installed and the whole.

Unless Avatar is going in the Rafiki Planet Watch area and that train would then be used for this area of Fort Wilderness?

Heres a link that pertains to this story we're discussing here: http://progresscityusa.com/2009/06/04/the-coolest-thing-youll-see-today/

And a video of the Hotel Cheyenne which would seemingly be similar to this proposed DVC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjD3VhgLJcg

I would just hope that its not all DVC as I would like to stay at a place like this for sure!!

Depending on what happens to AK with Avatar, they have trains and track that could be repurposed. I guess it would depend on the area used for the eaxpansion and if the expansion actually happens.

Anyone know a site that lists how many points are available per resort total?

Looking at Sarasota Springs 2006 budget, I estimate SSR has 4,863,473 points. SSR prices were $98/$101 in the first two years.. so use $100 as an average.. that's 486 million in capital intake in initial sales (est.).

Would be interesting to find budget estimates on their cost to build to compare...

Saratoga Springs Resort did not sell for even close to that amount for the first 2 years. I paid $71.00 per point in 2003.


Here are the original leaked plans