flavious27
Well-Known Member
Flamingo Crossings is dead right now, no clue on when they will review using it in the future. This was their site plan, up to 5,000 hotel rooms and 500,000 sq feet for retail.
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DTD's Marketplace Complete?
- Thread starter jt04
- Start date
Flamingo Crossings is dead right now, no clue on when they will review using it in the future. This was their site plan, up to 5,000 hotel rooms and 500,000 sq feet for retail.
And yet there is definitely a buzz in the air. Proves the business model works!
They can't go wobbly and should stay the course. In a sense it is an outdoor mall. But unlike any other 'lifestyle center' in the world and they should complete what they started. The success of the Marketplace can be multiplied if they do this project right.
Flamingo Crossings is dead right now, no clue on when they will review using it in the future. This was their site plan, up to 5,000 hotel rooms and 500,000 sq feet for retail.
Great find! I had not seen this map before. I still think they should make this a resort that caters to adults and has a PI type entertainment district. That is a lot of land.
Which business model is that, open-air shopping and dining? Alas, that is nothing new.
And a "buzz in the air" doesn't necessarily mean glad tidings for the changes.....
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Indeed perhaps one of the new traders is Anne Summers, Babeland or Good Vibrations
flavious27
Well-Known Member
I hope that TDO changes DTD to a better lifecycle center like the Reston Town Center:
I think that this would have been a better way to mix retails, hotels, and restaurants. Also, an area like Hyperion Wharf with its park/amphitheater would make more sense.
Thanks. With nothing around that area, that PI would have a vegas feel.
Flamingo Crossings is dead right now, no clue on when they will review using it in the future. This was their site plan, up to 5,000 hotel rooms and 500,000 sq feet for retail.
I've seen a lot of site plans in my time, and that just may be the most schizophrenic one I've ever seen.
Are those individual retail buildings or strip malls? If they're individual retail, very few retail businesses are standalone like that. I understand this may be a very early plan, but if they're to be strip malls, why isn't there any kind of organization, design or sense of flow between the buildings?
17 hotels? Really!? Even in the best economic times, it's hard to believe they'd ever be able to fill 17 plots. If for no other reason, there just aren't that many hotel operators out there that don't already have a presence in the area.
Really, really bizarre. This plan (or lack of real plan) really makes me question if these people really might actually be as clueless as they've appeared to be with the failure of the PI seccession and the complete failure of Flamingo Crossings. I'm really amazed (and even more confused) as to how these folks have kept their jobs.
raiden
Member
Quite possible. But in reality, nothing could top the original PI
While this is a very early site plan, the question that confuses you is a battle we all here at WDWmagic struggle with everyday :lol:
flavious27
Well-Known Member
I think that they are strip but the spaces between are walkways :veryconfu.
Yes that is 17 hotel spots with like 200 rooms in each. Are there even 17 hotel chains around that could occupy that many buildings?
Well is it any surprise that the people that approved this design for FC also are in charge of DTD.
There is much better ways that disney could use this space. Also, just next to FC are the waste water basins for RCID. Can you imagine the view for any the rooms facing north?
With the amount of room that disney has out that way, they could have just built a better set of value or moderate hotels under their own banner.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Nothing will unless they stop their plans and rethink and redo.
This site plan is what is on the website promoting this project.
SMRT-1
Active Member
should anyone take his posts seriously? the marketplace is the same as it has always been.
i don't think people are exactly losing their minds about spending 25 dollars and then getting the privilege of getting a towel with it for 12.95 are they?
My thoughts exactly. Really bizarre, isn't it?
And those aren't walkways, they're streets. The dark shades are the buildings and the light shades are the land boundaries/parking lots. There's no rhyme or reason to how the buildings are laid out whatsoever. There isn't even any kind of town center or amenity area that you would usually find in this kind of development (or that you'd expect with even the most basic Disney development).
I can only figure the whole thing was build-to-suit, but there have never been that many retail companies that build standalone locations like that – just the same way there aren't that many companies out there that build 200 room hotels (especially that aren't already in the area anyway). I also can't believe there isn't any kind of flow identified. Even if everything was build-to-suit, you'd think the plans would be a guideline to show the basic design principles of the development - yet there's no civic design whatsoever.
Really bizarre for a company like Disney to create a development with what appear to be no rules. It's almost as though the whole idea was "you buy the land and you can put whatever you want on it and however you want to put it." Very, very un-Disneylike.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
You are not alone. I also looked at that site plan and thought... REALLY?!?
It's just so... I don't know the word, it's just so... 20th century. Chain restaurants and chain stores surrounding chain motels amid a giant sea of surface parking lots connected to E-Z offramps. :hurl:
Sure, they had horrible timing trying to launch this thing at the start of the Great Recession. But I think it's a blessing in disguise that they couldn't get the ugly and outdated Flamingo Crossings development off the ground. Instead of creating more franchised suburban sprawl circa 1968, why not do some smart infill development around the open land and surface parking lots around Downtown Disney? Multi-level retail/hotel developments with hidden parking connected to DTD by an electric streetcar system, perhaps? Something just a tad more modern and 21st century in its thinking is needed at WDW.
It is called Downtown Disney, after all. Why not create a denser, urban fabric and layer lodging, dining and shopping in to the sprawling open space around DTD? These shots of Portland, Oregon and its famously healthy urban streetscape with extensive streetcar service come to mind. Imagine a Disneyfied version of this type of modern urban streetscape, with streetcars going through and under buildings like they do in Portland.
Methinks that TDO needs to join the 21st century and get some young new urban planners on staff, instead of the current fuddy-duddies who only have the number to Holiday Inn, International House of Pancakes, and Applebees in their Rolodex. And yeah, the guys behind Flamingo Crossings still have Rolodexes instead of iPhones. :lol:
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Oh what, you don't buzz when you shop...:shrug:... ? :ROFLOL:
OldAndBusted
New Member
Disney? Shopping? Say it ain't so!
To be fair, you could argue that the entire WDW experience is about shopping.
To be fair, you could argue that the entire WDW experience is about shopping.
You are not alone. I also looked at that site plan and thought... REALLY?!?
It's just so... I don't know the word, it's just so... 20th century. Chain restaurants and chain stores surrounding chain motels amid a giant sea of surface parking lots connected to E-Z offramps. :hurl:
Sure, they had horrible timing trying to launch this thing at the start of the Great Recession. But I think it's a blessing in disguise that they couldn't get the ugly and outdated Flamingo Crossings development off the ground. Instead of creating more franchised suburban sprawl circa 1968, why not do some smart infill development around the open land and surface parking lots around Downtown Disney? Multi-level retail/hotel developments with hidden parking connected to DTD by an electric streetcar system, perhaps? Something just a tad more modern and 21st century in its thinking is needed at WDW.
It is called Downtown Disney, after all. Why not create a denser, urban fabric and layer lodging, dining and shopping in to the sprawling open space around DTD? These shots of Portland, Oregon and its famously healthy urban streetscape with extensive streetcar service come to mind. Imagine a Disneyfied version of this type of modern urban streetscape, with streetcars going through and under buildings like they do in Portland.
Methinks that TDO needs to join the 21st century and get some young new urban planners on staff, instead of the current fuddy-duddies who only have the number to Holiday Inn, International House of Pancakes, and Applebees in their Rolodex. And yeah, the guys behind Flamingo Crossings still have Rolodexes instead of iPhones. :lol:
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Dude, class envy went out of style about a year and a half ago. Perhaps you are the one who is out of touch. :lol:
The original aesthetics of the WDW Village can still be a foundation for the current Marketplace during the early part of the day and I think that is part of what will set the new DTD apart. Rather than theme park like kinetics and dynamics, the new DTD will reflect the relaxing atmosphere that the Village had in the morning and then as the day goes on the area will literally transform itself into the evening while not trying to duplicate that which would only alienate families from the area as PI habitually did. People craving the traditional club atmosphere will find City Walk and more and more Orlando filling that niche.
Guests want to have experiences at WDW that they can't get anywhere else. And the last thing most people want is the same old congested and polluted bussle every city in the country inflicts on them. WDW is about escapism not replicating the same ol' same ol' found everywhere else. :snore:
Hyperion Wharf is the solution. :sohappy:
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Well it is outside the gates so I guess Disney just wants the rent checks. There is much that they could do with the land west of the main property, this just seems like an afterthought by someone that wanted a promotion.
Again, outdoor dining and shopping? At third-party vendors and restaurants? Not exactly a unique (or bold) experience there......
flavious27
Well-Known Member
You are not alone. I also looked at that site plan and thought... REALLY?!?
It's just so... I don't know the word, it's just so... 20th century. Chain restaurants and chain stores surrounding chain motels amid a giant sea of surface parking lots connected to E-Z offramps. :hurl:
Sure, they had horrible timing trying to launch this thing at the start of the Great Recession. But I think it's a blessing in disguise that they couldn't get the ugly and outdated Flamingo Crossings development off the ground. Instead of creating more franchised suburban sprawl circa 1968, why not do some smart infill development around the open land and surface parking lots around Downtown Disney? Multi-level retail/hotel developments with hidden parking connected to DTD by an electric streetcar system, perhaps? Something just a tad more modern and 21st century in its thinking is needed at WDW.
It is called Downtown Disney, after all. Why not create a denser, urban fabric and layer lodging, dining and shopping in to the sprawling open space around DTD? These shots of Portland, Oregon and its famously healthy urban streetscape with extensive streetcar service come to mind. Imagine a Disneyfied version of this type of modern urban streetscape, with streetcars going through and under buildings like they do in Portland.
Methinks that TDO needs to join the 21st century and get some young new urban planners on staff, instead of the current fuddy-duddies who only have the number to Holiday Inn, International House of Pancakes, and Applebees in their Rolodex. And yeah, the guys behind Flamingo Crossings still have Rolodexes instead of iPhones. :lol:
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Agreed, I mentioned the Reston Town Center as a template for what disney should do. They have the land where FC is at, but a town center would make more sense at DTD because it is a better location.
Name another place like it? The original Village's purpose was to allow third parties on property. Same with the hotels nearby. I have figured out there are two camps here at least. Those that experienced the pre-Pleasure Island days and those that did not. I think those that experienced the complete transition of the area from the beginning have a better understanding of the potential that was lost when PI was dropped into the mix.
HW would allow the best of both of these offerings. The more WDW Village aspects during daytime hours and offerings in the evening that are more PI like especially as the evening passes. Done in a way as to not run families off just as they are leaving the parks. I think offerings such as ElecTRONica have proven that it is possible to please everyone.
It appears to me that with what we know about Hyperion Wharf, this is exactly what Disney is aiming for. Genius.
Name another one? Where people could converge for food, shopping, and entertainment? The Greeks called it an Agora. Start there and move forward a couple thousand years, you'll find one or two establishments along the lines of what DTD is hoping to accomplish. Nothing new, and certainly nothing exciting. Then again, the Greeks probably didn't have seed and mulch. Columns perhaps, but not seed and mulch (unless the former was for planting)....
And it appears that what we know about HW is nothing more than wrecking balls, artist's renditions and rumors. Again, not much different than your usual suburban outdoor shopping project.