Dream Disney Resort

[Pi on my Cake]

To Whom This Might Concern,

@DisneyManOne, @spacemt354, @S.P.E.W, @Pionmycake, @orlando678-, and to anyone else whom might have been following this thread.

I've been doing this wrong. All wrong.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-ms-rolly-crump-20180907-story.html
​

The article above, an interview with Disney Legend Rolly Crump, might just pinpoint the exact issue I have been having with this project. For over three years now (the original thread started in March of 2016), I have struggled and fought with my own imagination over the design and "Final Draft" of this Resort. We're now on Version 4.0 of a project that is, in hindsight, completely wrong. Innovative, yes. Unique, yes. But what my "Dream Resort" would actually entail? No. Not in the slightest. And I would like to think that this an underlying issue that some of my readers might have as well with the project.

You see, Mr. Crump puts it best. "Disneyland has charm. Disneyland freaking hugs and kisses you." "When you go to Disney World and see the castle, you want to genuflect ... and that disturbed me." "You can't have someone in charge that doesn't understand the look that Walt had - the art was done by people in animation, and animation background painters. The whole thing fell apart." "No one is trying to keep charm in the park, and I've had enough of it."

And that last sentence is exactly what my Magic Kingdom is missing: Charm. "No one is trying to keep charm in the park, and I've had enough of it."

At 1,200 Acres, my Magic Kingdom might have been the "Largest Theme Park in the World," but frankly, this is not something that Walt, let alone a corporate CEO hellbent on making money would even want. 1,200 Acres. Let that sink in. It's almost as if I've been trying to cram all the nostalgia of Disneyland and all the corporate synergy of California Adventure into one Mega-Mall that takes up the entirety of a small town. It doesn't feel right. Frankly, it never has, but this passion project has been such a ride of discovery and, at times, fun, that I kept trying new things and looking into different ideas. But Mr. Crump was the nail in the coffin. It was the wake-up call that made me realize what my issue is... The park is too big. Way. Too. Big. The charm and nostalgia are lost because there is too much for one park to feasibly handle.

That being said, the Land of Dreams will be on an indefinite hiatus. In the meantime, and yes, at my own pace, I will be re-designing and re-imagining the Magic Kingdom into a good old-fashioned Disneyland. No gargantuan size. No 100+ attractions. Just charm, nostalgia and detail, something that Walt and the Original Imagineers would be proud of. Until then, I would like to thank you all for following this infinite work in progress.

Space, I would definitely love to still have you on board for the map. If anything, it will be a lot easier to draw given its much smaller scale. I promise you all that this project will come into fruition. It's just going to take some time.

- MANEATINGWREATH

Interesting. Thoughtful. Well written. Inspiring. Much like nearly all your posts in this thread are.

I have always enjoyed your massive mega-parks. And for what it is worth, I thought you always found ways to put charm into a project that, due to its scale, was inherently difficult to fill with charm. That being said, I look forward to seeing what you are able to do with a smaller scale project and more focused/concentrated park.

 

[DisneyManOne]

To Whom This Might Concern,

@DisneyManOne, @spacemt354, @S.P.E.W, @Pionmycake, @orlando678-, and to anyone else whom might have been following this thread.

I've been doing this wrong. All wrong.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-ms-rolly-crump-20180907-story.html
​

The article above, an interview with Disney Legend Rolly Crump, might just pinpoint the exact issue I have been having with this project. For over three years now (the original thread started in March of 2016), I have struggled and fought with my own imagination over the design and "Final Draft" of this Resort. We're now on Version 4.0 of a project that is, in hindsight, completely wrong. Innovative, yes. Unique, yes. But what my "Dream Resort" would actually entail? No. Not in the slightest. And I would like to think that this an underlying issue that some of my readers might have as well with the project.

You see, Mr. Crump puts it best. "Disneyland has charm. Disneyland freaking hugs and kisses you." "When you go to Disney World and see the castle, you want to genuflect ... and that disturbed me." "You can't have someone in charge that doesn't understand the look that Walt had - the art was done by people in animation, and animation background painters. The whole thing fell apart." "No one is trying to keep charm in the park, and I've had enough of it."

And that last sentence is exactly what my Magic Kingdom is missing: Charm. "No one is trying to keep charm in the park, and I've had enough of it."

At 1,200 Acres, my Magic Kingdom might have been the "Largest Theme Park in the World," but frankly, this is not something that Walt, let alone a corporate CEO hellbent on making money would even want. 1,200 Acres. Let that sink in. It's almost as if I've been trying to cram all the nostalgia of Disneyland and all the corporate synergy of California Adventure into one Mega-Mall that takes up the entirety of a small town. It doesn't feel right. Frankly, it never has, but this passion project has been such a ride of discovery and, at times, fun, that I kept trying new things and looking into different ideas. But Mr. Crump was the nail in the coffin. It was the wake-up call that made me realize what my issue is... The park is too big. Way. Too. Big. The charm and nostalgia are lost because there is too much for one park to feasibly handle.

That being said, the Land of Dreams will be on an indefinite hiatus. In the meantime, and yes, at my own pace, I will be re-designing and re-imagining the Magic Kingdom into a good old-fashioned Disneyland. No gargantuan size. No 100+ attractions. Just charm, nostalgia and detail, something that Walt and the Original Imagineers would be proud of. Until then, I would like to thank you all for following this infinite work in progress.

Space, I would definitely love to still have you on board for the map. If anything, it will be a lot easier to draw given its much smaller scale. I promise you all that this project will come into fruition. It's just going to take some time.

- MANEATINGWREATH

Take your time, my friend. I can't wait to see what you'll do next. Frankly, your new method is what I'm already doing with Disneyland Maine--an original, good old-fashioned Disneyland, complete with usage of only the OG five lands--plus Discoveryland, for good measure.

 

[MANEATINGWREATH]

Take your time, my friend. I can't wait to see what you'll do next. Frankly, your new method is what I'm already doing with Disneyland Maine--an original, good old-fashioned Disneyland, complete with usage of only the OG five lands--plus Discoveryland, for good measure.

Same here. I've already begun work on Version 5 (the final version, methinks). I'm taking it down to World Bazaar (the new entry land), Hollywoodland, Discoveryland, Tomorrowland, Fantasyland, Westernland, and Adventureland. Seven lands. It will still be a large park, but nowhere near the size of what was before. I might even make a new thread for good measure.

Castle Disney itself will be sized down significantly, mostly to the size of Paris' Castle. Disneyland Paris itself is a good basis for the park's size, perhaps 175 - 200 Acres, about 100 Acres short of Epcot.

Fear not, most of the original sub-lands and whatnot will make their way into the resort. The hidden Congo "Forgotten Kingdom" will still reside in Adventureland, Buzzard Gulch (or whatever my Westernland is called) will remain, and Marvel City and Mos Eisley Spaceport have been nixed entirely. It doesn't feel right using them anymore, so Marvel will subsequently make its way into a Second Gate. The Second Gate won't be a Studio Park, however, more than likely a thematic variation on DisneySea or Animal Kingdom... Most likely the prior. DisneySky perhaps? Although a variation on Animal Kingdom is something that hasn't been done before... Star Wars on the other hand will more than likely be in an immersive sub-land of Discoveryland, a la DLP.

Anyhow, as always, if any ideas are borrowed from this thread, please provide credit. This applies to all users. It might be a month or two before anything is posted again. Until then, adieu. I'll poke in this thread from time to time.

 

[DisneyManOne]

Same here. I've already begun work on Version 5 (the final version, methinks). I'm taking it down to World Bazaar (the new entry land), Hollywoodland, Discoveryland, Tomorrowland, Fantasyland, Westernland, and Adventureland. Seven lands. It will still be a large park, but nowhere near the size of what was before. I might even make a new thread for good measure.

Castle Disney itself will be sized down significantly, mostly to the size of Paris' Castle. Disneyland Paris itself is a good basis for the park's size, perhaps 175 - 200 Acres, about 100 Acres short of Epcot.

Fear not, most of the original sub-lands and whatnot will make their way into the resort. The hidden Congo "Forgotten Kingdom" will still reside in Adventureland, Buzzard Gulch (or whatever my Westernland is called) will remain, and Marvel City and Mos Eisley Spaceport have been nixed entirely. It doesn't feel right using them anymore, so Marvel will subsequently make its way into a Second Gate. The Second Gate won't be a Studio Park, however, more than likely a thematic variation on DisneySea or Animal Kingdom... Most likely the prior. DisneySky perhaps? Although a variation on Animal Kingdom is something that hasn't been done before... Star Wars on the other hand will more than likely be in an immersive sub-land of Discoveryland, a la DLP.

Anyhow, as always, if any ideas are borrowed from this thread, please provide credit. This applies to all users. It might be a month or two before anything is posted again. Until then, adieu. I'll poke in this thread from time to time.

If I can remember right, DisneySky had both Marvel and Star Wars--aptly set around Cloud City, of course. I'm even taking a few rides from DisneySky's Avengers Airfield to put in my Marvel area for Disney's Hollywoodland.

I think I said my Disneyland would be 500 acres. I'm not that good with estimates in size--I just said that to give an impression as to how big and immersive it would be. If I ever do a map in Paint, I'll just place everything where I'd place it, and see how big it would be. I think it would really be about 200-250 acres in size.

 

[Suchomimus]

Same here. I've already begun work on Version 5 (the final version, methinks). I'm taking it down to World Bazaar (the new entry land), Hollywoodland, Discoveryland, Tomorrowland, Fantasyland, Westernland, and Adventureland. Seven lands. It will still be a large park, but nowhere near the size of what was before. I might even make a new thread for good measure.

It’s too bad this means LW has to go.

 

[DisneyManOne]

It’s too bad this means LW has to go.

I was actually looking forward to Liberty Waterfront. I have interest in returning to my Port Disney concept in "To Infinity and Beyond", and I want to keep the American Waterfront area, but since its two biggest E-tickets--Tower of Terror and Toy Story Mania--are in another park in Florida, I was hoping I could get some inspiration from you, @MANEATINGWREATH--and of course, I'd give all due credit to you.

 

[Suchomimus]

I was actually looking forward to Liberty Waterfront. I have interest in returning to my Port Disney concept in "To Infinity and Beyond", and I want to keep the American Waterfront area, but since its two biggest E-tickets--Tower of Terror and Toy Story Mania--are in another park in Florida, I was hoping I could get some inspiration from you, @MANEATINGWREATH--and of course, I'd give all due credit to you.

Well here’s an idea for you. The Museum of the Weird as a trackless dark ride.

 

[spacemt354]

To Whom This Might Concern,

@DisneyManOne, @spacemt354, @S.P.E.W, @Pionmycake, @orlando678-, and to anyone else whom might have been following this thread.

I've been doing this wrong. All wrong.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-ms-rolly-crump-20180907-story.html
​

The article above, an interview with Disney Legend Rolly Crump, might just pinpoint the exact issue I have been having with this project. For over three years now (the original thread started in March of 2016), I have struggled and fought with my own imagination over the design and "Final Draft" of this Resort. We're now on Version 4.0 of a project that is, in hindsight, completely wrong. Innovative, yes. Unique, yes. But what my "Dream Resort" would actually entail? No. Not in the slightest. And I would like to think that this an underlying issue that some of my readers might have as well with the project.

You see, Mr. Crump puts it best. "Disneyland has charm. Disneyland freaking hugs and kisses you." "When you go to Disney World and see the castle, you want to genuflect ... and that disturbed me." "You can't have someone in charge that doesn't understand the look that Walt had - the art was done by people in animation, and animation background painters. The whole thing fell apart." "No one is trying to keep charm in the park, and I've had enough of it."

And that last sentence is exactly what my Magic Kingdom is missing: Charm. "No one is trying to keep charm in the park, and I've had enough of it."

At 1,200 Acres, my Magic Kingdom might have been the "Largest Theme Park in the World," but frankly, this is not something that Walt, let alone a corporate CEO hellbent on making money would even want. 1,200 Acres. Let that sink in. It's almost as if I've been trying to cram all the nostalgia of Disneyland and all the corporate synergy of California Adventure into one Mega-Mall that takes up the entirety of a small town. It doesn't feel right. Frankly, it never has, but this passion project has been such a ride of discovery and, at times, fun, that I kept trying new things and looking into different ideas. But Mr. Crump was the nail in the coffin. It was the wake-up call that made me realize what my issue is... The park is too big. Way. Too. Big. The charm and nostalgia are lost because there is too much for one park to feasibly handle.

That being said, the Land of Dreams will be on an indefinite hiatus. In the meantime, and yes, at my own pace, I will be re-designing and re-imagining the Magic Kingdom into a good old-fashioned Disneyland. No gargantuan size. No 100+ attractions. Just charm, nostalgia and detail, something that Walt and the Original Imagineers would be proud of. Until then, I would like to thank you all for following this infinite work in progress.

Space, I would definitely love to still have you on board for the map. If anything, it will be a lot easier to draw given its much smaller scale. I promise you all that this project will come into fruition. It's just going to take some time.

- MANEATINGWREATH

If I may MEW, after reading your piece here and the Crump article - I would be saddened to see your years of hard work in this thread be scrapped, or trimmed down to try and make it something else. And I feel like it would be scrapped for the wrong reasons.

As the article says:

When he expresses a frustration with the parks, it’s not due to a lack of desire to change. (And it needs to be noted that much in Disney’s parks today are very much handcrafted and full of personality — see Animal Kingdom in Florida, the massive, mountainous sculptures of Cars Land or the recently added evil beaver on the Disneyland Railroad.)

What Crump laments is the obviously personal touch — an attraction that clearly belongs to a specific artist more than it does a blockbuster film.

-----------------------------
Your Dream Disney Resort is the definition of a personal touch - it's your vision and it's your personal touch. It's not trying to replicate something from the 1950s, or copy the style of Disney parks of old. It's your creation and your idea for the largest theme park in the world.

Disney's Animal Kingdom (500ish acres) was noted as being one of the examples of a Disney park that still maintains that personal touch. Personal touch and park size are not correlated.

So with that said - I'd encourage you to continue on with what you have created, rather than try and fix something that isn't broken. Continue with your vision and personal touch as that is the missing piece in today's theme parks.

 

[DisneyManOne]

If I may MEW, after reading your piece here and the Crump article - I would be saddened to see your years of hard work in this thread be scrapped, or trimmed down to try and make it something else. And I feel like it would be scrapped for the wrong reasons.

As the article says:

When he expresses a frustration with the parks, it’s not due to a lack of desire to change. (And it needs to be noted that much in Disney’s parks today are very much handcrafted and full of personality — see Animal Kingdom in Florida, the massive, mountainous sculptures of Cars Land or the recently added evil beaver on the Disneyland Railroad.)

What Crump laments is the obviously personal touch — an attraction that clearly belongs to a specific artist more than it does a blockbuster film.

-----------------------------
Your Dream Disney Resort is the definition of a personal touch - it's your vision and it's your personal touch. It's not trying to replicate something from the 1950s, or copy the style of Disney parks of old. It's your creation and your idea for the largest theme park in the world.

Disney's Animal Kingdom (500ish acres) was noted as being one of the examples of a Disney park that still maintains that personal touch. Personal touch and park size are not correlated.

So with that said - I'd encourage you to continue on with what you have created, rather than try and fix something that isn't broken. Continue with your vision and personal touch as that is the missing piece in today's theme parks.

If I may add on to this, I must admit something: I was not a fan of Mr. Crump's statements at all. To me, Mr. Crump felt like one of those Disney park zealots who complain every time something changes at the parks, no matter how small--the "Walt-Right", as I call them. And as I have mentioned numerous times in the past, I cannot stand the Walt-Right mindset. Therefore, I am taking Mr. Crump's statements with a grain of salt.

I have to agree with Space here, my friend. Don't give up hope on this project. I'd love to see how things turn out here.

 

[Suchomimus]

To me, Mr. Crump felt like one of those Disney park zealots who complain every time something changes at the parks, no matter how small--the "Walt-Right", as I call them. And as I have mentioned numerous times in the past, I cannot stand the Walt-Right mindset.

They’re never satisfied. Not even when it involves guest comfort.

 

[MANEATINGWREATH]

If I may MEW, after reading your piece here and the Crump article - I would be saddened to see your years of hard work in this thread be scrapped, or trimmed down to try and make it something else. And I feel like it would be scrapped for the wrong reasons.

As the article says:

When he expresses a frustration with the parks, it’s not due to a lack of desire to change. (And it needs to be noted that much in Disney’s parks today are very much handcrafted and full of personality — see Animal Kingdom in Florida, the massive, mountainous sculptures of Cars Land or the recently added evil beaver on the Disneyland Railroad.)

What Crump laments is the obviously personal touch — an attraction that clearly belongs to a specific artist more than it does a blockbuster film.

-----------------------------
Your Dream Disney Resort is the definition of a personal touch - it's your vision and it's your personal touch. It's not trying to replicate something from the 1950s, or copy the style of Disney parks of old. It's your creation and your idea for the largest theme park in the world.

Disney's Animal Kingdom (500ish acres) was noted as being one of the examples of a Disney park that still maintains that personal touch. Personal touch and park size are not correlated.

So with that said - I'd encourage you to continue on with what you have created, rather than try and fix something that isn't broken. Continue with your vision and personal touch as that is the missing piece in today's theme parks.

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. To everyone, of course.

The difficulty I'm mainly having is a killer instinct for perfectionism. My personal OCD and anxiety isn't necessarily the biggest fan of trying to do something considered "Final." While I would agree that Rolly is sounding like one of the hardcore zealots known at a certain other fan site, I still have to agree that the charm is lacking in many areas in my park. And I think that what I might have been missing here all along is that same charm that made Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom so flippin special.

My anxiety disorder (not to point fingers or complain) is a big factor in wanting everything to be just right. I'll go through my writing after an entire day and delete everything just because I don't think it's good enough. My brain mentally won't let me accept praise or criticism. As much as I love to hear good feedback, I can't help but always assume the worst when I post something. It's the same thing with my acting. It doesn't matter how great people tell me I am when I perform, I can't see what they're talking about. It doesn't register in my head. It sucks, but sadly, that's how my entire life has been.

That being said, I can promise that the sized down Magic Kingdom will still be of a unique design and of my own personal touch. Much of the original idea has remained (sans Marvel City, Mos Eisley Spaceport and Liberty Waterfront) and will translate well into a significantly smaller park. I think that, if anything, 500 Acres would do for the park. It would still be the largest Magic Kingdom ever, but would still retain the intimacy I so desire for this multi-year dream of mine.

The Dream Resort isn't dead. The years of work haven't been wasted. It's just going through yet another change. I think that, once and for all, after this version, I will finally be content and be able to rest a spell.

 

[DisneyManOne]

While I would agree that Rolly is sounding like one of the hardcore zealots known at a certain other fan site,

I'm not sure about the Walt-Right being exclusive to that other fan site. This site itself is home to some prominent Walt-Right voices as well.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

I'm not sure about the Walt-Right being exclusive to that other fan site. This site itself is home to some prominent Walt-Right voices as well.

The entire Disneyland board is a Walt-right Wonderland

 

[Suchomimus]

While I would agree that Rolly is sounding like one of the hardcore zealots known at a certain other fan site

Micechat?

 

[MANEATINGWREATH]

Micechat?

Bingo! Of course, I don't go past the "Imagineer" section of WDWMagic. So I wouldn't know what's going on in that regard.

There is one user, in particular, not to name drop, who literally will enter any thread on the other site, doesn't matter what the topic is, and will somehow make it about himself and about how self-righteous and superior his opinion is to anyone else. It doesn't matter how good or bad the subject is, if he disagrees, the world will know. My favorite is his negative opinion on the new Rivers of America at Disneyland. I mean, what we have at DL now is far superior to what was there before. Just saying. It feels as classic Disney as can be.

My favorite and latest complaint thread is in regard to the Haunted Mansion. To open the path for traffic more on the route to the Critter Country entrance of Galaxy's Edge, they removed the brick planters running along the perimeter gate of the Haunted Mansion. Granted, it is sad to see an opening day fixture go, but it is so minuscule and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, that lamenting its loss is borderline bizarre. If anything, the gate is now more imposing as it stands around ten feet in height without the planter. Here are some general responses to the removal.

"This takes the charm away from the Haunted Mansion."

"Won't be back on the Haunted Mansion again. This is outrageous."

"Walt would have never approved."

"Thanks Galaxy's Edge!"

Call me cynical, but the Disney Park fanbase is far more toxic than the Star Wars or Marvel fanbase. Just saying.

Anyhow, let's not make this Imagineering thread about what's wrong with the community. As it is, I feel negative just coming off typing this post. Nothing to see here, carry on.

 

[Suchomimus]

Call me cynical, but the Disney Park fanbase is far more toxic than the Star Wars or Marvel fanbase. Just saying.

I knew toxicity in every fan base was a given but I never knew that Marvel’s would be as bad as SW.

 

[spacemt354]

I knew toxicity in every fan base was a given but I never knew that Marvel’s would be as bad as SW.

I feel like fanbases only become toxic when the brand they like does something divisive.

Marvel tends to please the fanbase over and over so I'd say that's one of the most positive ones.

 

[Suchomimus]

I feel like fanbases only become toxic when the brand they like does something divisive.

You’re not wrong, but the toxicity doesn’t limit to fan-brand relations. If you look at other fandoms, like the T&F fandom, a good percentage of toxicity that is not directed at brands/brand creators can be attributed to fans themselves. This guy does a good job explaining that issue.

 

[DisneyManOne]

Bingo! Of course, I don't go past the "Imagineer" section of WDWMagic. So I wouldn't know what's going on in that regard.

There is one user, in particular, not to name drop, who literally will enter any thread on the other site, doesn't matter what the topic is, and will somehow make it about himself and about how self-righteous and superior his opinion is to anyone else. It doesn't matter how good or bad the subject is, if he disagrees, the world will know. My favorite is his negative opinion on the new Rivers of America at Disneyland. I mean, what we have at DL now is far superior to what was there before. Just saying. It feels as classic Disney as can be.

My favorite and latest complaint thread is in regard to the Haunted Mansion. To open the path for traffic more on the route to the Critter Country entrance of Galaxy's Edge, they removed the brick planters running along the perimeter gate of the Haunted Mansion. Granted, it is sad to see an opening day fixture go, but it is so minuscule and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, that lamenting its loss is borderline bizarre. If anything, the gate is now more imposing as it stands around ten feet in height without the planter. Here are some general responses to the removal.

"This takes the charm away from the Haunted Mansion."

"Won't be back on the Haunted Mansion again. This is outrageous."

"Walt would have never approved."

"Thanks Galaxy's Edge!"

I believe one of the most prominent WDWMagic Walt-Right voices was actually banned from MiceChat, because he viciously argued with anyone who liked whatever he was complaining about, even telling those who were excited about Mission: BREAKOUT! that they were "wrong and uneducated". I'm sure you can guess who it is just by that alone...

I follow an account on Twitter that's devoted to mocking some of the more vocal members of the Walt-Right, primarily those on Twitter, but also a few from WDWMagic. And when I first saw a few tweets mocking those bemoaning the loss of the planter, my first instinct was: "Really? You're getting all worked up over a planter? Man, you guys really don't like it when anything changes, do you?"

 

[mickeyfan5534]

I believe one of the most prominent WDWMagic Walt-Right voices was actually banned from MiceChat, because he viciously argued with anyone who liked whatever he was complaining about, even telling those who were excited about Mission: BREAKOUT! that they were "wrong and uneducated". I'm sure you can guess who it is just by that alone...

I follow an account on Twitter that's devoted to mocking some of the more vocal members of the Walt-Right, primarily those on Twitter, but also a few from WDWMagic. And when I first saw a few tweets mocking those bemoaning the loss of the planter, my first instinct was: "Really? You're getting all worked up over a planter? Man, you guys really don't like it when anything changes, do you?"

I follow the same person. And while I think a few have a point, the ones that don't like anything are just obnoxiously terrible.