Doors Fail to Open on Monorail Yellow

[Sir_Cliff]

The phone should be checked daily to verify that two way communication is working. There would be paperwork each day showing that this was done.

If monorail pilots said this was done and they did not actually complete it, then that would be falsifying a legal document and they deserve what ever repercussions they receive. But that is wild speculation and there is no reason to believe that was the case.

I'm asking this completely sincerely, but do you know any of this for certain or are you also speculating that the phone is checked daily and there's a paper trail to back this up?

 

[TrojanUSC]

I'm asking this completely sincerely, but do you know any of this for certain or are you also speculating that the phone is checked daily and there's a paper trail to back this up?

It’s part of SOP. There’s a whole host of safety protocols for all attractions. For example, all e-stop buttons are checked at least once per week with certain ones being tested daily. Ride and emergency phone testing is also part of this process.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't see anyway Disney gets a pass on this one.

The guests look like they might be teens. So what?

The guests are not sobbing hysterically. So what?

The guests were not in a *real* emergency. So what?

The phone (probably) worked. There was just no one to answer it. So what?

This is absolutely a clear failure on Disney's part. Yes real world stuff happens there, but they failed the real world response in every way possible - maintenance, training, operations, emergency planning, customer service, incident response. Everything. The situation around the monorails is textbook management failure. All it needs is a tragedy, and it will be a case study.

There is no excuse. I adore the monorails but operate them properly or don't do it at all.

I agree that if indeed they did try to get in touch via the phone, of all those things you listed that is the only thing they did wrong. However, it was a big wrong, but, again why falsely throw in maintenance when you have no idea what they do for maintenance, or training, operations, emergency planning, customer service and incident response. Not having the emergency phone monitored is the mistake made. The others don't come into affect until they know there is an incident. Big gap in the process, yes, of course. But, other then that blaming the rest of the stuff is just throwing out blame just to see where it sticks. It sticks at phone monitoring at all times.

 

[peter11435]

I'm asking this completely sincerely, but do you know any of this for certain or are you also speculating that the phone is checked daily and there's a paper trail to back this up?

I’m not speculating

 

[s8film40]

I'm asking this completely sincerely, but do you know any of this for certain or are you also speculating that the phone is checked daily and there's a paper trail to back this up?

I can also verify that the phones are checked any time a train comes into service and they have to be checked off on a checklist. It's also worth pointing out there are two phones in every car so even if one wasn't working there's another. It's also a pretty reliable system. I did this on an almost daily basis many times multiple trains per day over ten years and I can only think of maybe one or two times the phones weren't working.

 

[s8film40]

I don't see anyway Disney gets a pass on this one.

The guests look like they might be teens. So what?

The guests are not sobbing hysterically. So what?

The guests were not in a *real* emergency. So what?

The phone (probably) worked. There was just no one to answer it. So what?

This is absolutely a clear failure on Disney's part. Yes real world stuff happens there, but they failed the real world response in every way possible - maintenance, training, operations, emergency planning, customer service, incident response. Everything. The situation around the monorails is textbook management failure. All it needs is a tragedy, and it will be a case study.

There is no excuse. I adore the monorails but operate them properly or don't do it at all.

It's important to understand the context of what happened. It's not about making excuses. If were discussing in other threads the possible replacement of the trains due to their age then it's important to be fair and understand wether this is a maintenance issue or a CM who either intentionally did this or perhaps mistakenly thought the car was empty so didn't open the doors.

Personally I'll be among the first to say these trains are old and either need some heavy refurbishment or replacement, but at the same time I'll also acknowledge when something probably isn't part of that equation.

 

[peter11435]

I don't see anyway Disney gets a pass on this one.

The guests look like they might be teens. So what?

The guests are not sobbing hysterically. So what?

The guests were not in a *real* emergency. So what?

The phone (probably) worked. There was just no one to answer it. So what?

This is absolutely a clear failure on Disney's part. Yes real world stuff happens there, but they failed the real world response in every way possible - maintenance, training, operations, emergency planning, customer service, incident response. Everything. The situation around the monorails is textbook management failure. All it needs is a tragedy, and it will be a case study.

There is no excuse. I adore the monorails but operate them properly or don't do it at all.

I don’t think anyone is trying to give them a pass here. But it’s important to understand exactly what happened and why so that blame can be properly applied instead of just reacting by emotion and ignorance of the situation.

This is absolutely a failure. Like you say it was a failure of training, operations, emergency planning, customer service, incident response. Although there is no indication this particular incident was a failure of maintenance.

 

[TP2000]

It’s part of SOP. There’s a whole host of safety protocols for all attractions. For example, all e-stop buttons are checked at least once per week with certain ones being tested daily. Ride and emergency phone testing is also part of this process.

Then clearly the repeated failures here are with the human CM’s staffing the WDW Monorail system.

The CM’s in this situation either don’t care, are not very bright, or have been poorly trained and poorly managed by their bosses. The reality is that it’s likely a mixed combination of those factors.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Why isn't there a central operator somewhere in maintenance that could monitor "phone" traffic. Sort of a lilly tomlin type of "one ringy dingy, two ringy dingy". Dispatch could then alert all stations.

 

[s8film40]

Why isn't there a central operator somewhere in maintenance that could monitor "phone" traffic. Sort of a lilly tomlin type of "one ringy dingy, two ringy dingy". Dispatch could then alert all stations.

You have to keep in mind these trains were designed and built in the late 80’s. They’re out driving along the track. Wireless technology wasn’t exactly as big of a thing back then, especially considering they needed 14 phones per train. It probably would be smart if they get new trains or refurbish these to put in some sort of wireless phones that could contact some central place as you suggest. As it is now these are very basic hard wired intercom phones.

 

[JoeCamel]

You have to keep in mind these trains were designed and build in the late 80’s. They’re out driving along the track. Wireless technology wasn’t exactly as big of a thing back then, especially considering they needed 14 phones per train. It probably would be smart if they get new trains or refurbish these to put in some sort of wireless phones that could contact some central place as you suggest. As it is now these are very basic hard wired intercom phones.

You have first hand knowledge. Some posters suggested that the driver (pilot) would be outside at the station and controlling the buttons for the doors.
Would the pilot not see the end car doors did not open? Would the pilot not be within earshot or eyesight of the notification for the emergency phone as they are outside operating the door controls?
Last is there a spot for another CM to do those functions while the pilot remains in place? I wonder if this position was eliminated forcing the pilot to assume their duties.

 

[s8film40]

You have first hand knowledge. Some posters suggested that the driver (pilot) would be outside at the station and controlling the buttons for the doors.
Would the pilot not see the end car doors did not open? Would the pilot not be within earshot or eyesight of the notification for the emergency phone as they are outside operating the door controls?
Last is there a spot for another CM to do those functions while the pilot remains in place? I wonder if this position was eliminated forcing the pilot to assume their duties.

I can't speak to any changes that might have occurred recently, but my understanding is the doors still operate the same way. Yes the control for the doors is on the outside. The doors can be opened by pressing one button combination that opens all doors. If the pilot needs to keep a set of doors closed they would need to press a button combination for each individual car to open. In other words it's either all or each car one by one. So not opening doors is a very intentional act. If the pilot is standing outside the cab by the door controls they should still be able to hear the phone, maybe not if they closed the cab door. It should be plainly obvious to any pilot what doors were open, they can all be seen very easily from the cab. Additionally there is a signaling system in place the platform CM has to signal to the driver to close the doors when the guests are clear and the driver should also be looking for this, so both CM's are looking at the doors. I don't believe the driver would've not known the doors were not opening. I think it must have been intentional or accidental. Here's a hypothetical example: the AC was out in that car so they were not loading it. So the driver was making sure to open all five of the other cars at every stop. The train pulls into the MK and another CM who isn't aware opens all the unload doors. The pilot assumes it's not an issue because the cars are empty and guests are loading on the other side. Meanwhile the crowds from the MK start piling into the other cars. These teens see that the last car is empty, they enter the second to last car, the unload doors are still open and they see that they could exit and re-enter in the last car. They switch cars without notice. As the train enters each subsequent station the pilot continues to follow through with only opening the first five cars. The first few stops they don't think much of it, then as they get closer to their stop they begin to realize it's going to be an issue. They finally get the attention of the platform CM who simply walks over and opens the door, indicating the doors were functioning just fine. Now that's all completely hypothetical and I could probably come up with a dozen or more scenarios like that that would fit what we know. I would be interested to know what really happened, but I have a feeling once we heard it would be "oh well that makes sense" type of thing.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just wondering.... would the exit doors, which have to be what we are talking about here be on the opposite side of the train from the pilot and his buttons? And if there was no crowd there to enter that particular cabin, not draw attention to that spot at all? Therefore, CM's assumed that the cabin had emptied out!

 

[s8film40]

Just wondering.... would the exit doors, which have to be what we are talking about here be on the opposite side of the train from the pilot and his buttons? And if there was no crowd there to enter that particular cabin, not draw attention to that spot at all? Therefore, CM's assumed that the cabin had emptied out!

In a station that has two sides like the MK the pilot usually shifts from opening the unload doors then crossing through the cab to open the load doors. CM’s on either side will often assist when they can to speed things up.

 

[DisneyGentlemanV2.0]

TWhile there are Walt Disney World Cast Members who do all of the above, many look blankly off into the distance or don’t jump to help. Why? Because corporate views them as expendable labor capital. Cast Member’s assignment is to make sure each guest maximizes spending by providing a good enough experience for guests to open wallets. And Cast Members may be replaced by interns, because did I mention, they’re expendable?

This!

On a very recent visit I noticed a definite change in crowd control (for example, while waiting for trains). It was not polite or enchanting. It was cattle-herding. Mildly mocking and derogatory. Not quite "you idiots have no clue", but a tone trending in that direction. I wasn't offended, but I wasn't happy to experience it.

The most disturbing part of it is that it was repeated at multiple locations. The cast member had been TRAINED to act that way. Not making me feel unique, nor relaxed, nor even like someone on a vacation. The "happiest place on earth" had fallen victim to the bottom line. I'm so done with that...

 

[TrojanUSC]

Then clearly the repeated failures here are with the human CM’s staffing the WDW Monorail system.

The CM’s in this situation either don’t care, are not very bright, or have been poorly trained and poorly managed by their bosses. The reality is that it’s likely a mixed combination of those factors.

This has nothing to do with the human CMs. We don’t know when the emergency phone was attempted but the likelihood is that the attempt was made while they were on the platform. If that was the case, the driver was likely outside of the cab, as per normal procedure, and wasn’t aware of the call.

The phones were designed under the assumption that such a call would only need to be made on the beam, either in transit or while stopped. Not while in the station.

 

[Gabe1]

This!

On a very recent visit I noticed a definite change in crowd control (for example, while waiting for trains). It was not polite or enchanting. It was cattle-herding. Mildly mocking and derogatory. Not quite "you idiots have no clue", but a tone trending in that direction. I wasn't offended, but I wasn't happy to experience it.

The most disturbing part of it is that it was repeated at multiple locations. The cast member had been TRAINED to act that way. Not making me feel unique, nor relaxed, nor even like someone on a vacation. The "happiest place on earth" had fallen victim to the bottom line. I'm so done with that...

A good example. We have duly noted over the last several years this on the train with the loading personnel and the conductors. It is pretty consistently rude. We have wondered what that is about also, trained to be obnoxious? Hopefully after the two groundings of the the train as Tomorrowland expands there will be better Supervisors assigned and some Cast that maybe are fresh out of Smile School (traditions)

 

[Goofyernmost]

A good example. We have duly noted over the last several years this on the train with the loading personnel and the conductors. It is pretty consistently rude. We have wondered what that is about also, trained to be obnoxious? Hopefully after the two groundings of the the train as Tomorrowland expands there will be better Supervisors assigned and some Cast that maybe are fresh out of Smile School (traditions)

I think that is a direct result of the fact that the public has turned into a pack of entitled jerks, that think the world rotates around them. They don't follow instructions that are designed for their own safety and ignore any "polite" effort to protect them from harm. So they resort to occasionally yelling at idiots that insist on just doing whatever they want to do, I mean after all they paid a lot of money to be there.

It takes a person with the patience of a saint to tolerate that before letting the internal explosion go off. I don't blame them a bit. They are Human Beings first and CM's second, or maybe 3rd, 4th or 5th depending on what is happening in their life. What a shame that once in a while a CM has to raise their voice to prevent someone from harm. This society has degenerated into a steaming heap of entitled marshmallows.

Based on some of the ways I have seen "the public" respond to CM's I can guarantee you that I would only be employed for around 15 minutes before I would scream out... "OK, idiots get yourself run over, hurt or killed and see if I give a damn!!!" I'm so tired of hearing about the "rude" CM's from people that do not have any idea of the kind of crap they have been taking all day long or the degree of dangers involved with ignoring instructions. There is a limit, and if the public pushes them across that line then I say they are getting what they deserve.

 

[ChrisFL]

I think overall they need more CM's at each station so they can better keep track of things.

 

[JoeCamel]

I think overall they need more CM's at each station so they can better keep track of things.

I'm wondering if there was a position to operate the doors so the pilot could remain in the cab? In the years I was going to the world I think it was always the pilot on the door buttons but that was after the accident for the most part. Didn't really pay attention during my earlier years. I was going to see Mickey after all, didn't care how I got there