Don't wanna be angry, but I am...[Rant]

[NelsonRD]

I view Disney the same way as I view sports teams. I do not always agree with all the decisions that are made, some I do not understand at all, and others I cannot even begin to explain. The most damaging to me has been the hotels (in particular parking fees, and bland theming), but as long as it provides a level of entertainment and enjoyment that I value, I continue to support them.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I think my biggest complaint I have about the layoffs is that in comparison to construction and refurbishing, they could have held off on all of that and paid employees and routine maintenance on older rides. IMHO, it feels like the looks of the parks took precedence over paying its employees. I know I may be wrong but that was my take away.

Its not that one takes precedent over the other. The money to do the construction does not come from the same budget as employee costs. It isnt one big bag of money where everything is drawn from and given out. When projects are set up and money is allotted, loans are made, contracts are signed and cant be broken. The companies doing the work have their butts and their workers butts on the line as well. Projects cant be left partially built and left uncompleted long term, materials and unfinished areas can be affected by weather, cause a hazard or break down. What was set up for construction and refurb was planned out long before there was any inkling that covid would hit us so what was in the works had to be continued when construction could continue.

 

[DznyGrlSD]

Disney is going to need an Eisner/Wells-esque intervention to come out of this in the long run.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Its not that one takes precedent over the other. The money to do the construction does not come from the same budget as employee costs. It isnt one big bag of money where everything is drawn from and given out. When projects are set up and money is allotted, loans are made, contracts are signed and cant be broken. The companies doing the work have their butts and their workers butts on the line as well. Projects cant be left partially built and left uncompleted long term, materials and unfinished areas can be affected by weather, cause a hazard or break down. What was set up for construction and refurb was planned out long before there was any inkling that covid would hit us so what was in the works had to be continued when construction could continue.

That makes sense.

 

[ppete1975]

No worries. I can understand your view point.
Personally, like another poster said, my childhood was massively imprinted on by Disney World and with how they changed, it is like you have been with someone for many years and you thought you knew them and felt comfortable in their presence. And then time goes by and their appearance and personality start to change to something unrecognizable. This leaves a person like myself in confusion and sorrow. Does that make sense?

totally, but do you stay around that toxic person? To further the train of thought, you meet the person who is perfect for you. You get married have 5 great years. Then they change, you are no longer attracted to each other, you no longer say nice words to each other. You make every excuse not to go home, cause you know you will fight and be miserable. The person 5 years ago is gone, you hope and pray that they will change and be the same person you "thought they were" 5 years ago, but you know they wont.
Do you stay in the relationship, or end it? Someone better for you might be out there.. once again its a big beautiful world and theres alot to see, do and experience.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

No disrespect but i don’t understand these comments. If you dont like something dont go or support. If i go to a restaurant and it used to be great but the last 5 times tastes like cat food, dont go back. Find somewhere else to enjoy and spend your money. Lifes too short and theres a world to explore.

You are of course correct.

Personally, my old adage is that WDW is so phenomenal that even a WDW that is only half of what it was or ought to be still is great.
There have been moments in recent trips where I did, sadly, feel I didn't belong and wasn't welcome either.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Some years ago, a stranger pointed out that WDW often treats us like cattle. (or maybe more accurately, sheep). He said, "Treat people like animals all day, and they'll act like animals," said as we were walking through MK's monorail cattle shoot.

A kinda red flag for me was back when they added the no-show fee for dining. It was a slap in the face.

Used to be, that it was easy to eat almost anywhere at WDW for any meal. You maybe had to wait 20 min for a table to open.

The first negative change came when they changed 'reservations' into ADR's. Reservation = table held for your party. ADR = your sorta assigned a table, but no promise that you'll be able to sit down at a specific time.

So we make a reservation, and we show up at a prearranged time, AND THEN WE WAIT FOR 20+ minutes! Ugh!

WDW further devolved when they added the no-show fee. If my family's staying onsite, we're going to eat dinner. We just might change where we eat.

It is absurd to book dining 6 MONTHS out. I don't even know what I want to eat tonight. It is fine to have reservations available for those who want them, but WDW should easily accommodate those who prefer flexibility.

Universal has successfully kept a flexible system, and I appreciate that. I keep hoping WDW will improve, but they haven't. For me, it's meant more time visiting Universal. I just find Universal far less frustrating. Shuttle boats arrive promptly, park touring is easy, eating what I want when I want is easy, food quality is great, the rides and staff are super. The only thing Universal lacks is the size and same level of nostalgia.

 

[UNCgolf]

Personally, my old adage is that WDW is so phenomenal that even a WDW that is only half of what it was or ought to be still is great.

This is what some people seem completely unable to grasp. I can go to WDW now and enjoy it while also recognizing it's a lesser experience than it was in the past.

That doesn't mean it's terrible now or that I think it's a waste of time/money to go there. It's just an observation that the experience used to be higher quality basically across the board (and was also significantly cheaper).

 

[UNCgolf]

It is absurd to book dining 6 MONTHS out. I don't even know what I want to eat tonight. It is fine to have reservations available for those who want them, but WDW should easily accommodate those who prefer flexibility.

This may be the worst thing about the entire experience now. Having to make dining plans 6 months out is completely insane -- it actually affects how you plan your entire trip, because once you have an ADR in a specific park, you've basically locked yourself in to that park for the day. Yes, you can have a park hopper (which I always do), but you will probably spend an hour getting from one park to another, not to mention the potential FastPass issues (which will hopefully no longer be a problem soon). It's a hassle to have an ADR in a park other than the one where you are planning to spend the day. Plus, as you mentioned, it's very easy to have a dining reservation at a place you no longer want to eat once you're actually there 6 months later, and you're basically out of luck at that point because the chances of you getting one elsewhere are incredibly small even if you didn't have to pay a fee for a day of cancellation.

And that's not even considering that the food quality has dropped precipitiously from 20-25 years ago.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

totally, but do you stay around that toxic person? To further the train of thought, you meet the person who is perfect for you. You get married have 5 great years. Then they change, you are no longer attracted to each other, you no longer say nice words to each other. You make every excuse not to go home, cause you know you will fight and be miserable. The person 5 years ago is gone, you hope and pray that they will change and be the same person you "thought they were" 5 years ago, but you know they wont.
Do you stay in the relationship, or end it? Someone better for you might be out there.. once again its a big beautiful world and theres alot to see, do and experience.

Wise and strong words that hit home.

 

[Shouldigo12]

This is what some people seem completely unable to grasp. I can go to WDW now and enjoy it while also recognizing it's a lesser experience than it used to be.

That doesn't mean it's terrible now or that I think it's a waste of time/money to go there. It's just an observation that the experience used to be higher quality basically across the board (and was also significantly cheaper).

I can understand some people still liking it while believing it's not quite as good as it was. But that's just not the opinion I usually see expressed on here. Most posts I read- and maybe I'm just not reading the right posts- take the stance that everything is way worse than it was and not worth the money anymore. Those are the people that confuse me, the ones who are very vocal about their dislike of the current WDW and still go year after year; sometimes even multiple times a year.

 

[Brer Panther]

I feel that Iger has done more and more harm for the company with each year.

 

[UNCgolf]

I can understand some people still liking it while believing it's not quite as good as it was. But that's just not the opinion I usually see expressed on here. Most posts I read- and maybe I'm just not reading the right posts- take the stance that everything is way worse than it was and not worth the money anymore. Those are the people that confuse me, the ones who are very vocal about their dislike of the current WDW and still go year after year; sometimes even multiple times a year.

Yeah, if you think it's absolutely trash and a complete waste of money now, I don't know why you would go. I think it's significantly worse than it used to be in essentially every way, but it's still good enough for me to enjoy it. It's like the difference between being an A+ experience 25 years ago and being maybe a B- one now. The B- is still okay, but it's a big step down from the A+.

Of course, I also only go once every few years rather than multiple times a year because there are too many other places/things to go do.

 

[DisneyNittany]

So dont even dare dream the consumer can run Disney and they know it.

But, the consumer does run Disney. Unfortunately, it's just not the direction that you or I or many on this board would like.

They aren't hurting for money, and despite price hikes and less offerings, more and more people continue to go. Hell, the stock was up ~5% today for the company as a whole. The consumer and the investor are both speaking.

 

[ppete1975]

For some of the people who feel some of it has lost its magic, im curious and would love to hear opinions.
1) do you live close? (maybe an AP)
2) do you go once a year min?

The reason i ask is i only get to go about every 4 years, (my first disneyland was supposed to be next year), sometimes its more sometimes its less frequent. Once i get to my home airport, i leave the real world behind and park my car. I fly into the the airport get on the magical express which takes me right to port orleans riverside. Im instantly hit by disney magic.. the bus ride im like a kid. Since its late i usually dont go to the park and take the boat to disney springs (i love this boat) listen to live music get a bite and shop.. and shop more music candy treats then more shopping lol. The next day i go to the quick service at the hotel and get some mickey waffles and watch the water wheel then get on a bus and i have my parks lined up and usually park hopping everywhere. When i go to the magic kingdom the first time on the trip (epcot is my fav) i slowly walk down mainstreet letting the sounds and smells hit my senses. Then i look up and see the castle... im now 8 years old again. eventually its time to go home i take the magical express to the hotel fly home and im back in the real world.

I know i sound like a rose colored disney fan. But im really not. We went a few times when i was a kid and the last time was 1993 when i graduated high school and my sister college. IT was fun.. but then i entered the workforce in a job where it was grizzled men, no women and no magic (white collar not blue). I didnt watch a disney movie -wall-e which i loved for 20 years or care about disney. in 2013 my parents wanted to take my little nephews and i got to tag along. I didnt care, i just wanted to hang out with family id outgrown childishness.

I loved walking around port orleans and not having to drive.. the only thing i was excited about was the land the original jii and world of motion (clearly i didnt research or keep up) and was going to get to go to living seas for the first time (it was always closed each time i went. That was until i saw the castle.... i was suddenly 8 again... and i havent grown up sense.

The magic is still there, sometimes you need to take a break. And listen less to the politics of whats going on behind the scenes.. and if you listen really close you can still hear walt talking about how wonderful disneyland was going to be in the early 50s and cliff edwards singing "when you wish upon a star"

 

[Goofyernmost]

No worries. I can understand your view point.
Personally, like another poster said, my childhood was massively imprinted on by Disney World and with how they changed, it is like you have been with someone for many years and you thought you knew them and felt comfortable in their presence. And then time goes by and their appearance and personality start to change to something unrecognizable. This leaves a person like myself in confusion and sorrow. Does that make sense?

I had that very experience with my wife. It is not a fun way to go through life for them or for the people around them. And it certainly does cause sorrow, but eventually ends in understanding. But that's another story, I started going to WDW regularly in 1983 as a 35 year old adult with a wife and two children aged 7 and 9. I can tell you that it was a lot different then, it wasn't anymore fun, but it required a whole lot less planning and a lot more freedom to do whatever pleased you from attraction to meals.

No ADR's, no having to plan what park you were going to in what order, no FP's to worry about because if you got there first you were first. It required perhaps more time in a queue line for some rides but overall required no more time in one per trip. There wasn't any frustration because the line continued to move and no one was going to jump in front of you. It was a calmer, less frustrating and anger inducing experience that brought me back year after year.

Then they started to make changes. FP was established and along with it one experienced anger and frustration, and contrary to what PR tried to say not everyone could have one because logically if they could, there would be no reason to have FP and everyone would be in the FP line. It left me sad because the WDW that I experienced the first few years was gone forever and the enjoyment factor declined to the point where I now go for a couple of days about every two years. It's sad, but it is not crippling sad. Like everything else in life, change happens. Some of it good, some of it bad and some of it just takes getting used too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair, WE actually do have the say/power and could "control" the business operations, but WE aren't willing to sacrifice anything to force the company's hand. The consumer has all the power, but when we accept and pay for products/services we don't like or think are ****, then we're just bowing to the company.

When I say "we" I don't specifically mean this board, but society as a whole. But, yeah, us in this board (the one's that still go, but complain) are "complicit" in the company "taking away the magic" too.

I was gonna say this too...so I’ll just acknowledge yours - even if I have to support someone from penn state.

The consumers ALWAYS Have the power. Period. Reject crap...reward quality.

The problem with the consumers is they don’t have a SPINE. Too immature to deny themselves their fix even if it’s not of value.

There’s a code for it:

“Times change...gotta keep up with the competition...they don’t have a choice”

That translates to: “I need MY DISNEY...and I’m gonna have it and I can’t handle any questioning of it”
...more or less.

 

[_caleb]

For some of the people who feel some of it has lost its magic, im curious and would love to hear opinions.
1) do you live close? (maybe an AP)
2) do you go once a year min?

The reason i ask is i only get to go about every 4 years, (my first disneyland was supposed to be next year), sometimes its more sometimes its less frequent. Once i get to my home airport, i leave the real world behind and park my car. I fly into the the airport get on the magical express which takes me right to port orleans riverside. Im instantly hit by disney magic.. the bus ride im like a kid. Since its late i usually dont go to the park and take the boat to disney springs (i love this boat) listen to live music get a bite and shop.. and shop more music candy treats then more shopping lol. The next day i go to the quick service at the hotel and get some mickey waffles and watch the water wheel then get on a bus and i have my parks lined up and usually park hopping everywhere. When i go to the magic kingdom the first time on the trip (epcot is my fav) i slowly walk down mainstreet letting the sounds and smells hit my senses. Then i look up and see the castle... im now 8 years old again. eventually its time to go home i take the magical express to the hotel fly home and im back in the real world.

I know i sound like a rose colored disney fan. But im really not. We went a few times when i was a kid and the last time was 1993 when i graduated high school and my sister college. IT was fun.. but then i entered the workforce in a job where it was grizzled men, no women and no magic (white collar not blue). I didnt watch a disney movie -wall-e which i loved for 20 years or care about disney. in 2013 my parents wanted to take my little nephews and i got to tag along. I didnt care, i just wanted to hang out with family id outgrown childishness.

I loved walking around port orleans and not having to drive.. the only thing i was excited about was the land the original jii and world of motion (clearly i didnt research or keep up) and was going to get to go to living seas for the first time (it was always closed each time i went. That was until i saw the castle.... i was suddenly 8 again... and i havent grown up sense.

The magic is still there, sometimes you need to take a break. And listen less to the politics of whats going on behind the scenes.. and if you listen really close you can still hear walt talking about how wonderful disneyland was going to be in the early 50s and cliff edwards singing "when you wish upon a star"

LOVE this post. It describes my sentiments, exactly. I grew up going to Disneyland, but these days I go to WDW every two or three years. Port Orleans Riverside was my first Disney resort, and it has the same effect on me.

I think people who go all the time can sometimes lose sight of the privilege it is to get to go to the parks.

 

[UNCgolf]

I also love Port Orleans Riverside; it's where I stayed my last two trips.

I actually don't remember my first Disney resort. I know we stayed at the Disney Inn (now Shades of Green) when I was 4 or 5, but I don't have any memories of it. I have no idea where we stayed on trips when I was roughly 8 and 12; have literally no memory of the hotel whatsoever. We stayed at Old Key West when I was a teenager -- that's the first one that I actually remember.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I can understand some people still liking it while believing it's not quite as good as it was. But that's just not the opinion I usually see expressed on here. Most posts I read- and maybe I'm just not reading the right posts- take the stance that everything is way worse than it was and not worth the money anymore. Those are the people that confuse me, the ones who are very vocal about their dislike of the current WDW and still go year after year; sometimes even multiple times a year.

Some folks like to talk in hyperbole. It is a little like baby birds in a nest, or why bears scratch high on trees. They grew up with the notion that louder/higher/bigger = effective. And well...just read any newspaper in 2020 for prime examples. Sadly, it often starts in childhood. The loudest tweeter sometimes gets the most regurgitated worm; so they keep at it.

For me, the classic rides are a big part of the appeal, and those are still there, but the style of my touring has changed dramatically. My trips have always varied: short/long, time of year, hotel, hopping/not hopping, Just WDW/Just US/both/other FL places.

WDW used to be very flexible. If we missed a paper FP, no big deal. We often picked our park by hopping on the first bus that arrived. I booked same-day dining on the way to the park, or we'd just wait for a table. Getting dressed for dinner was relaxing and fun, because we could take our time over a snack and pre-dinner beverage.

With more restrictions, trips got progressively more restricted and less fun. A buzzkill was the trips where getting to an ADR= yelling at everyone that it was time to go NOW! Then we'd arrive and WAIT. A full hour. PAST our ADR time. You know those Snicker's commercials? Multiple times the youngest members of our extended family completely fell asleep. So much for pictures and autographs. The live music helped at many venues, but not always enough. Rushing, just to wait gets progressively more insulting each time it happens.

Some CM's came close to making up for it. The step sisters are especially great at making us laugh. After dinner, the GF pianists sprinkled pixie dust on little girls in taffeta dresses. Live piano music is magic! Storytellers at AKL wove amazing African fairytales around blazing campfires, or else CM's invited all the kids to parade around the lobby playing assorted instruments.

Many WDW magic moments feel spontaneous. It was like winning the lottery, so even after many faded away...it long seemed like they could return at any time. Some bus drivers told jokes, but not all. Some boat captains gave out little trading cards, some didn't. Some trips you got invited to ride in the front of the monorail, some you didn't. That was the magic of it. Every trip some special thing happened, but not the SAME little thing each visit. If you know WDW, you know this about WDW, and wouldn't need to ask. Long time visitors just keep hoping they see Chip frolicking with Dale...

So sure, I still go to WDW, but not at all the way we used to go. To be fair, I've always varied my visits - season, length, where I stay. And to be fair, last summer, we had an amazing housekeeper! I hope she isn't among those who were laid off. Just a super sweet person doing a fantastic job making little bits of WDW magic.