Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[Miss Bella]

Cast member “previews”.

So they are open.

 

[havoc315]

As far as the rest of your post, OF COURSE people are dying from Covid. But also, people are dying from the lockdown. These two things can both be true. Not every excess death is Covid.

Which state and county? Please provide their published guidelines for reporting of Covid cases. Otherwise, you're just repeating half-baked rumors.

Anyhoo, believe what you want. I’m telling you it’s happening, and we have no system in place to delineate between with and from Covid. The death certificate has the word Covid on it, it goes into the county Covid count. Which then gets reported to the state.

As far as the rest of your post, OF COURSE people are dying from Covid. But also, people are dying from the lockdown. These two things can both be true. Not every excess death is Covid.

Which state and county? Please provide their published guidelines for reporting of Covid cases. Otherwise, you're just repeating half-baked rumors.

As to non-Covid excess deaths: The evidence is that the lockdown has REDUCED the number of non-Covid deaths. Less driving=fewer car accidents. Social distancing= reduction of regular flu deaths, etc.

There likely are some categories of increased death due to lockdown (mental health, etc). But they are outweighed by all the categories of reduced death.
In fact, during the lockdowns, low viral areas had LESS death than would be expected.

 

[havoc315]

Might be some confusion by some on what actually constitutes a "hospitalization". Not just a visit to the an ER, but actual admission to the hospital floors for at least an overnight stay (havoc, I know you know this, but I'm not convinced everyone posting here does).

Correct. An ER presentation is not a hospitalization, it is not an admission.

 

[xdan0920]

Correct. An ER presentation is not a hospitalization, it is not an admission.

Source?

 

[TrojanUSC]

Them why was there no spike associated with opening indoor dining at 50% with distancing between tables? The people talking to each other loudly would be together if they were eating at somebody's house. The server taking the order is wearing a mask (which according to a lot of posters stops them from spreading it to customers) and the people giving the order are lower down. Droplets from talking don't rise a few feet to the server.

Numerous restaurants across the country have had to close due to COVID outbreaks.

 

[Surfin' Tuna]

So they are open.

Open is a stretch, but there are cast previews today with less than 10,000 in MK. It reminds me of the old days when we could walk w/o running into people. Now if we could just get some trees in the hub...

 

[xdan0920]

Which state and county? Please provide their published guidelines for reporting of Covid cases. Otherwise, you're just repeating half-baked rumors.


Which state and county? Please provide their published guidelines for reporting of Covid cases. Otherwise, you're just repeating half-baked rumors.

As to non-Covid excess deaths: The evidence is that the lockdown has REDUCED the number of non-Covid deaths. Less driving=fewer car accidents. Social distancing= reduction of regular flu deaths, etc.

There likely are some categories of increased death due to lockdown (mental health, etc). But they are outweighed by all the categories of reduced death.
In fact, during the lockdowns, low viral areas had LESS death than would be expected.

I’ll take my own experience over yours. You seem to shout louder though, so I’m sure you’ll sway some folks.

 

[Surfin' Tuna]

Fast pass is unlikely to come back as we knew it. As things stand.

I am not a fan of fastpass+ at all, but I was not a fan of the plan as of last year with regard to replacements either. If that's what we get moving forward, I think there might be some unhappy people. Maybe Martin as newer info than I do with regard to that, since I have not heard anything new. It does make sense that they would make the change now, though. When it comes back, we can enjoy the "new and improved" system.

 

[TrojanUSC]

The death fudging is going the other way. We aren't missing deaths, we are ascribing too many to Covid. And using excess deaths as a barometer is completely wrong headed. How many of those excess deaths are lockdown related, and not Covid related? That's a toll we may never know the reality of. To completely discount it undermines your entire position. We are miscounting these deaths, we don't have the system in place to really measure a pandemic, or report nationwide deaths daily. It's being done piecemeal.

As an aside, and you can label me however you like....

I have first hand knowledge of the overcounting of Covid deaths in my County and town. I have a friend who works in the county, and she has told me about death certificates that make no sense. Drug OD w/Covid. Heart Attack w/covid. Car accident w/covid. The chief of a local police department stormed into the county offices to demand an explanation for what the hell was going on. Why was every death being marked "Covid". Now, is there enough of this to make a meaningful dent in the overall numbers? I don't know.

It does make me tend to label the counting as "miscounted" more then anything else though.

That is factually untrue. It's been debunked here many times. You can do research on this but it's easily, easily debunked. The CDC has clear and concise guidelines of when things are to be labeled as a COVID death. Nearly every single expert agrees deaths are being undercounted.

Fact check: Is US coronavirus death toll inflated? Experts agree it's likely the opposite

Theories have circulated that the government’s system for counting COVID-19 deaths is resulting in an inflation of the totals. This is false.

www.usatoday.com

 

[havoc315]

I’ll take my own experience over yours. You seem to shout louder though, so I’m sure you’ll sway some folks.

It's not experience. It's stats, it's numbers, it's facts.

Each person is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

(Note the lag, June deaths aren't really showing up yet).

 

[mellyf]

I saw up-close the real-life problem, as my town made front page news in the region. I'm in New York. We largely have the virus under control. My high school held a graduation ceremony, which was supposed to be run like a drive-in movie. All families were suppose to stay in their cars, while graduation ceremony was carried out on a big screen, with fireworks, etc.
The high school seniors treated it like a tailgate.. getting out of their cars and socializing. 2 students had recently returned from Florida bringing infection with them -- they spread it to 19 students during the graduation events.

So yes, older students *should* have the maturity to understand social distancing. But it's going to be difficult in real world practice.
If 2 positive infections could lead to 19 positive infections in one night of outdoor school events -- it really makes me apprehensive about how you manage schools.

As a teacher, it makes me apprehensive as well. There are many articles in recent weeks about how there is very little risk to students. I read one such opinion article from Bloomberg a couple of days ago. At no point did the writer acknowledge that there are also adults in the building. It also seems as if most of the guidelines are being written by people with very little actual knowledge of what a classroom (especially an elementary classroom) is like. I read the suggestion that kindergarten students, for example, have carpet squares placed so they can socially distance, and then also be given verbal reminders. Good luck with that. I read another article written by an educator who stated (again, opinion) that most of these articles are being written by business publications from the standpoint of getting our economy going again, and the schools are convenient "storage units" for students of workers, so those workers, including those working from home, don't have to be distracted by their kids, and are consequently more productive. So teachers and other school staff are considered expendable.

 

[xdan0920]

It's not experience. It's stats, it's numbers, it's facts.

Each person is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

Provisional COVID-19 Mortality Surveillance

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

(Note the lag, June deaths aren't really showing up yet).

Ok

 

[mickeymiss]

Numerous restaurants across the country have had to close due to COVID outbreaks.

Can you please name one? This is not a gotcha trap. I'm looking for primarily dine in restaurants, not bars that serve food. I haven't found any infections associated with a restaurant along the lines of Olive Garden (for example).

 

[xdan0920]

As a teacher, it makes me apprehensive as well. There are many articles in recent weeks about how there is very little risk to students. I read one such opinion article from Bloomberg a couple of days ago. At no point did the writer acknowledge that there are also adults in the building. It also seems as if most of the guidelines are being written by people with very little actual knowledge of what a classroom (especially an elementary classroom) is like. I read the suggestion that kindergarten students, for example, have carpet squares placed so they can socially distance, and then also be given verbal reminders. Good luck with that. I read another article written by an educator who stated (again, opinion) that most of these articles are being written by business publications from the standpoint of getting our economy going again, and the schools are convenient "storage units" for students of workers, so those workers, including those working from home, don't have to be distracted by their kids, and are consequently more productive. So teachers and other school staff are considered expendable.

No. Teachers are essential. You are essential. You need to be at school teaching children. I get not wanting to, I get being scared, but you have a responsibility.

 

[havoc315]

Source?

Source?? My medical training for one.

But if you really need to know the definition:

Hospital admission Definition: 127 Samples | Law Insider

Sample Contracts and Business Agreements

www.lawinsider.com

Differences Between the Emergency Department, the Office, and the Inpatient Setting

www.saem.org

This isn't really a controversial issue. Anyone in the medical community will tell you the difference between a hospital admission (transferred to in-patient status for overnight stay), observation (kept in the hospital for under 24 hours), outpatient care, ambulatory, and emergency room presentation.

 

[TrojanUSC]

Can you please name one? This is not a gotcha trap. I'm looking for primarily dine in restaurants, not bars that serve food. I haven't found any infections associated with a restaurant along the lines of Olive Garden (for example).

3 Popular OC Restaurants Close Due to Employees Testing Positive for Coronavirus

Plus, more reopenings throughout LA, Kismet Falafel closes, and Mariscos Jalisco heads to the Westside

la.eater.com

Have friends that ate at Javier's, a very popular Mexican restaurant in Newport Beach mentioned here, only to be called by the health department to let them know they were exposed. The restaurant had since closed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2020/06/17/there-is-no-playbook-restaurants-are-closing-again-after-workers-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

 

[TeriofTerror]

I don't think there is anyway Disney is going delay the opening. There is too much money to be had and lost if they do delay it. You can't blame them though.

It's like if someone knowingly goes into the woods where a senile old coot with a shotgun lives. If they get shot, it isn't the old coot's fault. It's the fool that went into his woods.

What? No one should get shot for walking through the woods. If someone who is mentally unstable has a firearm, it should be removed from his possession. Your entire premise is an example of how the situation should not be handled.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Source?

You are seriously asking this? The words "admission" and "hospitalization" (which are more or less synonymous) have a specific meaning in the health care field, and they do not include visits to the ER or urgent care. Hospitalization means that after being evaluated in the ER, the patient has been determined to need a level of treatment or monitoring that can not occur in an outpatient setting. Care of the patient then passes officially from the ER staff to the hospital floor staff, either under a medical or surgical service.

Hospital admission, re-admissions, and hospitalization length of stay are commonly tracked metrics by government, insurance, and public health agencies. When they use this term, they do not lump in ER visits. This is a separate metric.

I have worked in health care for 20 years. This is what these terms mean almost universally, including the US, Canada and at least the six European countries whose health systems I have professionally interacted with. They are as well understood and defined among health care professionals as terms like "discharge", "COPD", "MI", "on-call" and "disposition". They are part of the common lingo that any third year medical student, physician, nurse, social worker or hospital administrator understands.

 

[xdan0920]

You are seriously asking this? The words "admission" and "hospitalization" (which are more or less synonymous) have a specific meaning in the health care field, and they do not include visits to the ER or urgent care. Hospitalization means that after being evaluated in the ER, the patient has been determined to need a level of treatment or monitoring that can not occur in an outpatient setting. Care of the patient then passes officially from the ER staff to the hospital floor staff, either under a medical or surgical service.

Hospital admission, re-admissions, and hospitalization length of stay are commonly tracked metrics by government, insurance, and public health agencies. When they use this term, they do not lump in ER visits. This is a separate metric.

I have worked in health care for 20 years. This is what these terms mean almost universally, including the US, Canada and at least the six European countries whose health systems I have professionally interacted with. They are as well understood and defined among health care professionals as terms like "discharge", "COPD", "MI", "on-call" and "disposition". They are part of the common lingo that any third year medical student, physician, nurse, social worker or hospital administrator understands.

I understand that. I was asking for a source that we aren’t counting ER visits on these state dashboards. The data is a mess.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I understand that. I was asking for a source that we aren’t counting ER visits on these state dashboards. The data is a mess.

Because the state dashboards specifically list "hospitalizations" and as explained, that term has as a distinct definition that excludes ER visits.