Disney's Live Action The Little Mermaid

[DisneyHead123]

Oh I'm aware, I was an investor in WebVan back in the dotcom era because I was sure that eventually everyone would want to have their groceries delivered. I just happen to be early to the party and back the wrong horse, but it did happen. Now look at Amazon, Safeway, and others that offer grocery delivery across the country.

In a way that really illustrates what I’m talking about. Food delivery services were a big part of the shift to the “gig economy”. So it wasn’t just a matter of opening a food delivery business that fit within the current model of the time - there was a whole paradigm shift in society and how many people work. I think by the time streaming and other forms of online entertainment sort themselves out we’ll see something similar. I think the entire landscape will shift, and it will probably look different than what any of us are expecting now. Maybe Disney and Netflix start their own version of YouTube. Maybe you bundle services that seem disparate to us now, like Netflix and a DoorDash subscription (I can’t help but think that as more and more “intangible” goods flood the world in the form of entertainment, the relative value of physical, tangible goods and labor will increase. You have so many people chasing advertising dollars and a finite number of tangible goods to be advertised.) Maybe the biggest internet stars on YouTube and Discord and TikTok and such get together and start small studios that, 70 years from now, have merged into the next huge global media companies. Maybe virtual reality theaters become a huge thing and revitalize the theater industry because the technology is too expensive for home theaters (in the way that, once upon a time, having a huge screen in your house was too expensive for everyone but the ultra rich.)

I don’t know, I just think the pattern of unpredictability has held with most new technology, all the way back to the printing press. It tends to cause large scale societal changes that don’t fit into our current predictive model. Even my attempts at making “wild guesses” above is really based on the model of society in place now, when in reality they’re probably off because “flooded with free entertainment” culture will probably shape the way the next generation lives their lives in a way that wouldn’t even occur to me.

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm saying "Disney considers Spaceship Earth to be offensive" as an independent claim.

Unless I’ve misunderstood, this is merely an assumption on your part.

When you change something to "correct" things that you perceive to be flaws, there's an implication that people who love the original are deficient in some way, and this alienates the audience. "We need to change X to Y because X is too white" is like you're accusing people who love X of racism.

People shouldn’t be so quick to take offence. I loved Splash Mountain and don’t feel the least bit insulted by Disney’s decision to retheme it.

Why, then, do people find it so hard to believe that a "10 second scene" in a movie might distract from the creative process?

Because it seems inordinately unlikely.

 

[DKampy]

I'm not saying they're the same.

I'm saying "Disney considers Spaceship Earth to be offensive" as an independent claim.

I'm NOT saying "Disney's desire to change Spaceship Earth is proof that they consider it offensive."

Regardless, I think this rigmarole illustrates two extremely important points:

1. When you change something to "correct" things that you perceive to be flaws, there's an implication that people who love the original are deficient in some way, and this alienates the audience. "We need to change X to Y because X is too white" is like you're accusing people who love X of racism.
2. We've spent months, if not years debating these issues around and around in circles. Have we made any progress? Not really, no. Why, then, do people find it so hard to believe that a "10 second scene" in a movie might distract from the creative process?

Are you an insider… because I have never seen it mentioned you were… have you heard Disney mention they believe Spaceship Earth is offensive…I believe it is about time Spaceship Earth was up for a refurb and I would suspect they may change it to fit better in the world we live today

 

[HauntedPirate]

TLM still has a long window overseas, including up to a year in Japan. This is gonna make $700 million. Stop moving to goalposts to call it a flop. That narrative has long been discredited. Elemental has moved up considerably and is going to make it. Indy is a license to print money. "Brand fatigue" is simply not that much of a real thing.

For a lot of so-called "fans", most of you do nothing but be negative. And when your kind says things like "I want Eisner back," I have to laugh, given you all thought he was taking the company on a bad road. Now you say, "He actually cared, he just lost his touch." So did you want him gone or did you want him to stay and have help? And now you say "Iger never should've been CEO in 2005." Excuse me, but were there ANY realistic alternatives? No, there weren't.

Quoting for posterity.

TLM's Japanese take so far.

It only has $140 million more to go before it hits $700 million worldwide. I'm sure a year-long run in Japan plus will do the trick. I mean, in 8 weeks (it was released Memorial weekend overseas except for a few markets) it's made $263 million internationally, I'm sure another 44 weeks will most assuredly pull in another 50% of it's overall international take...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Except he was in charge, he just didn’t consolidate his power and naively assumed the BOD would be behind him, all the while the opportunists looking to move up the chain within Disney knew the only way to cover themselves would be to bring Bob back “Temporarily”. McCarthy and her flunkies on the BOD thought they could manipulate and control Iger 2 for their own advantage…and now they’re gone too.

Bob made a huge ego mistake and I bet weasel knows it…
Instead of quitting on newsdump in 2/2020 and then self proclaiming himself “white knight” a month later…

He could have stayed and waited for the fed money to flow - which all these characters knew was coming if things shut down - and been a business and political hero.

He could have laid no one off and rode the wave as the people champion…and gotten every penny from DC. But in an ironic twist…would have had to let blowhard do publicity on it…which would have made his skin crawl.

Oh…what theater it could have been

Everything ebbs and flows.

Park investments will happen again, whether they are what we wish would happen or not. And D+ will become profitable and hopefully self sufficient. I like this saying here, its always darkest before the dawn. And I believe that to be true here, Disney for all the negative things that are happening right now will come out of this dark period. This I believe with my Disney heart, and my business mind.

The important part of that is recognizing that it is an ebb and they need new leadership…not make excuses and shouting “Disney plus!!!” For a decade before the reality of that excuse hits you in the face like a wet fish

For the first time in his illustrious 20+ years Iger sees Parks as a growth opportunity - via investment and expansion.

Maybe nothing of this will ever come to be, but it is a long, long time coming for him to take that position.

I'll continue to be over here being optimistically delusional. I don't think that's considered Pixie Dust if there is self awareness, right? Or just the first step to recovery.

Say WHAT?!?

Dude…charging more for old stuff is NOT park growth.
Growth is laying groundwork for new revenue streams. That is not what Halloween parties in august and 60 more days of food and wine booths does. It’s actually the opposite…devaluing the product/stability by putting too much strain on what you already have instead of lessoning the burden across more components.

Iger is not investing/expanding. He’s doing replacement of end of life span and calling it development. Not the same at all because it doesn’t allow for new markets/revenue streams. That frozen meet and greet is damn near empty most of the time.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Are you an insider… because I have never seen it mentioned you were… have you heard Disney mention they believe Spaceship Earth is offensive…I believe it is about time Spaceship Earth was up for a refurb and I would suspect they may change it to fit better in the world we live today

This is the only insider that is real

That has always been the way but NEVER more true than now…

Our “insider” sources…mid park management toiling and WDI…better be on hatchet watch now. They have other things to do in this environment.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This is the only insider that is real

View attachment 732951

That has always been the way but NEVER more true than now…

Our “insider” sources…mid park management toiling and WDI…better be on hatchet watch now. They have other things to do in this environment.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Are you an insider…

As it relates to the Company broadly, yes.

As it relates to Parks in particular, indirectly.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Spaceship Earth is offensive??????!!!!!!!????

It's offensively devoid of IP!!

And offensively being not current vis-a-vis "ooh.. the Internet is a brand new thing that might catch on!!"

And offensively full of Dame Dench, whom most people here dislike her presentation and script.

And offensively non-thematic considering its theme of the *history* of communication in *future* world.

OK, maybe not so much *offensive* as *eyebrow raising.*

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It's offensively devoid of IP!!

The refurb wasn't going to include any IP, believe it or not.

 

[Andrew C]

It's offensively devoid of IP!!

And offensively being not current vis-a-vis "ooh.. the Internet is a brand new thing that might catch on!!"

And offensively full of Dame Dench, whom most people here dislike her presentation and script.

And offensively non-thematic considering its theme of the *history* of communication in *future* world.

OK, maybe not so much *offensive* as *eyebrow raising.*

Such an offensive defense.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It's offensively devoid of IP!!

And offensively being not current vis-a-vis "ooh.. the Internet is a brand new thing that might catch on!!"

And offensively full of Dame Dench, whom most people here dislike her presentation and script.

And offensively non-thematic considering its theme of the *history* of communication in *future* world.

OK, maybe not so much *offensive* as *eyebrow raising.*

I have a bad feeling Disney will destroy Spaceship Earth.

It was good while it lasted anyway.

 

[Disney Irish]

Is it? in 2014, the top 10 movies sold 310,000,000 tickets. So far in 2023, the top 10 have sold almost 265,000,000 tickets (Oppenheimer is not even top 10 yet, and Barbie is like 9). NOW, I've only found domestic so take that into account, but as of yesterday, there have been 861 million tickets sold in 205 days. That's an average of around 3.5 million tickets a day. Extrapolate that out, and 2023 is on pace to sell 1,337,730,021 tickets this year, and that assumes no major spike in November/December. That would be the highest number of tickets sold since 2013.

NOW, the difference is every year, it was a DISNEY movie that was on top, and Disney/Fox combined for over half the top 10. That is definitely not the case this year (I'm not looking at 2020-2021 just because the pandemic). In fact, there is a very real possibility Disney does not make the top 3 or 4 (depending on how some of these recent releases and upcoming ones end up). So I think it FEELS like movies are dying off because Disney is having a ton of issues we haven't seen in well over a decade.

The overall market trend of tickets sold has been downward since the peak in 2002, while the ticket price keeps rising. For example 2019 sold ~350M less tickets than that peak in 2002, yet brought in more then $2B more in box office, the reason higher ticket price.

Also I'm not sure where you get the 1.3B tickets sold by the end of the year, as most estimates put it at ~861M.

The Numbers - Movie Market Summary 1995 to 2025

Overall movie market summary for each year 1995 to 2025

www.the-numbers.com

Point is as ticket prices rise, the number of tickets sold continues to go down. This trend is not going to change, as we keep talking about the Parks becoming out of reach for families, the same is happening for movies.

 

[LSLS]

The overall market trend of tickets sold has been downward since the peak in 2002, while the ticket price keeps rising. For example 2019 sold ~350M less tickets than that peak in 2002, yet brought in more then $2B more in box office, the reason higher ticket price.

Also I'm not sure where you get the 1.3B tickets sold by the end of the year, as most estimates put it at ~861M.

The Numbers - Movie Market Summary 1995 to 2025

Overall movie market summary for each year 1995 to 2025

www.the-numbers.com

Point is as ticket prices rise, the number of tickets sold continues to go down. This trend is not going to change, as we keep talking about the Parks becoming out of reach for families, the same is happening for movies.

Ah, I missed the disclaimer at the top, didn't realize they were estimates, I thought that was the current total. Welp, nevermind.

 

[Disney Irish]

In a way that really illustrates what I’m talking about. Food delivery services were a big part of the shift to the “gig economy”. So it wasn’t just a matter of opening a food delivery business that fit within the current model of the time - there was a whole paradigm shift in society and how many people work. I think by the time streaming and other forms of online entertainment sort themselves out we’ll see something similar. I think the entire landscape will shift, and it will probably look different than what any of us are expecting now. Maybe Disney and Netflix start their own version of YouTube. Maybe you bundle services that seem disparate to us now, like Netflix and a DoorDash subscription (I can’t help but think that as more and more “intangible” goods flood the world in the form of entertainment, the relative value of physical, tangible goods and labor will increase. You have so many people chasing advertising dollars and a finite number of tangible goods to be advertised.) Maybe the biggest internet stars on YouTube and Discord and TikTok and such get together and start small studios that, 70 years from now, have merged into the next huge global media companies. Maybe virtual reality theaters become a huge thing and revitalize the theater industry because the technology is too expensive for home theaters (in the way that, once upon a time, having a huge screen in your house was too expensive for everyone but the ultra rich.)

I don’t know, I just think the pattern of unpredictability has held with most new technology, all the way back to the printing press. It tends to cause large scale societal changes that don’t fit into our current predictive model. Even my attempts at making “wild guesses” above is really based on the model of society in place now, when in reality they’re probably off because “flooded with free entertainment” culture will probably shape the way the next generation lives their lives in a way that wouldn’t even occur to me.

I don't disagree with you here. Technological shifts cause disruption in the marketplace. And that is just going to continue including with streaming. Maybe the "Great Streaming Purge of 2027" will see Disney rule all, or maybe crumble to the ground as Platform X takes the market by storm. Only time will tell.

BTW, you mention internet stars from the various platforms creating small studios. This has been done before with various stars creating content studios, and continues today. Some have gotten successful enough to be bought by other companies, for example when Disney bought Maker Studios in 2014.

Anyways we'll see how things go.

 

[Disney Irish]

Ah, I missed the disclaimer at the top, didn't realize they were estimates, I thought that was the current total. Welp, nevermind.

Yeah, current tickets are ~513M. So now you can see why I have my view that the box office landscape is only going to get worse not better. Heck I even think the estimates of $9B for box office totals for this year might be too high given how the year has been so far, but that is just my gut feeling.

Its just not a model that is sustainable, just like most things, as prices keep rising.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nope. I’ve shyed away from it. In short I don’t trust them with this park anymore.

I think “anti-trust” was invented to describe current Epcot “philosophy” these days

 

[LittleBuford]

And offensively full of Dame Dench, whom most people here dislike her presentation and script.

Really?! I know people yearn for the Irons narration, but I don’t recall anyone directly bashing Dame Judy. (“Dame” should never be followed by just the surname.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But people here said that was just an excuse without any basis in fact.

All reasons are “excuses” when it’s on day one of a failure…

…then when the big boys and girls show up and accept the failure…we can untangled the many reasons and judge what actually happened.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Really?! I know people yearn for the Irons narration, but I don’t recall anyone directly bashing Dame Judy. (“Dame” should never be followed by just the surname.)

I like Dench just as much as I liked Irons before her…