Disney's Live Action The Little Mermaid

[MrPromey]

You also are not wrong, but you also need to take out the inherent value of what you've created and its resale value. Yes it's going to take 'a long time' for Disney to realize the value. Just like it takes Disney a long time for Disney to realize value out of their theme parks.

But in and of itself the 'dividend' is just a small component of the underlying 'stock'. What is D+ worth on the free market? Way in excess of what Disney has spent to realize it so far.

Same with parks. Sure I bet the totality of what Disney spent on WDW seems like a crazy amount at the time, but now WDW is probably resellable on the free market for, what... 50 billion?

This is the whole difference between building things up internally versus going out and just buying something. We all thought everyone wanted the former, but Disney+ has interestingly demonstrated most fans are against internal growth and expansion. Perhaps I am being slightly unfair since this is a component of the company some people have no faith in as ever being financially viable, unlike the parks which we have the benefit of hindsight.

Also, don't forget we're all salty and bitter because we're park fans watching them siphon money off our favorite part of the company to support this project while in many ways seeming to both neglect and hyper monetize them at least in part, for the apparent purpose of better offsetting these losses.

Maybe one day they'll cheap out on an episode of a D+ series to help fund a park expansion but something tells me that's not in the cards.

I get the value they're creating but it's more potential value, isn't it? Disney only realizes that if it sells and given the contract tie-ups that would seriously hinder their ability to do things with their own intellectual property, they're never going to do that without rewriting the content contract which would signifigantly reduce the value, right?

Same with the parks - might create a nice asset to leverage when looking to borrow money but the company, as we know it, I don't think would ever sell - not to say that if they were to get bought, someone else might not, though.

So these assets give them something to leverage for borrowing money I guess but otherwise, in practical terms, they're only really of value day-to-day on what they bring in, right?

Anyway, there's definitely a lot of bias here (including in me) that probably wouldn't be there for a family in Kansas who's never been to a Disney park and may never go to one but is enjoying their D+ subscription - that's for sure!

 

[Disney Irish]

Also, don't forget we're all salty and bitter because we're park fans watching them siphon money off our favorite part of the company to support this project while in many ways seeming to both neglect and hyper monetize them at least in part, for the apparent purpose of better offsetting these losses.

Maybe one day they'll cheap out on an episode of a D+ series to help fund a park expansion but something tells me that's not in the cards.

Anyway, there's definitely a lot of bias here (including in me) that probably wouldn't be there for a family in Kansas who's never been to a Disney park and may never go to one - that's for sure!

Lets be honest, Disney has been siphoning money from the Parks for other endeavors long before D+ was even a twinkle in Iger's eyes. So lets not play like this is some new thing because Iger had a new toy.

 

[donaldtoo]

Well I'm only a decade(ish) behind you, and I hope I'm gone if that day ever does come too. I pray for the future of this world sometimes.

I watch Idiocracy at least once a year, its funny.

Yes, our 3 children are grown, and we have 2 young granddaughters (2 and 5), and I pray every day for their future.
I’m 60, so I could go into great detail about the societal differences from when I was young (just in basic manners, for one small example) but, I won’t. There’s no point anymore.
We raised our children in a way that taught them our values, about God, Family, Country, etc., and they are all productive adults, even our special needs son.
But, at the same time, I remember my parents telling us about sitting on the front porch of their farmhouse with their grandparents and parents talkin’ about the world goin’ to hell in a flamin’ hand basket…rinse, repeat…!!!!!
But, depending on when we were brought up, it affects our view…so yes, the world is goin’ to hell in a flamin’ hand basket from my POV…!!!!!

 

[MrPromey]

Lets be honest, Disney has been siphoning money from the Parks for other endeavors long before D+ was even a twinkle in Iger's eyes. So lets not play like this is some new thing because Iger had a new toy.

I'm certainly not and I have the receipts to prove it.

I've been generally unhappy with the direction of the parks for the last 20 years* and I haven't been shy about saying that around here for at least 17 of them..

Of course, I've also not been shy of saying what I do like, either but there's less and less of the latter these days.

*Actually, starting with the original redo of JII if you want to search back far enough in my posts though I think that was a part of the old forum so longer than 20 years, really but I didn't see it as a trend at that point.

 

[celluloid]

Lets be honest, Disney has been siphoning money from the Parks for other endeavors long before D+ was even a twinkle in Iger's eyes. So lets not play like this is some new thing because Iger had a new toy.

There is a difference between siphoning money from other diversifying business areas,

and lowering capacity with less attractions, lacking upkeep and general disregard for services once offered(Parking Trams etc.)

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm not.

I've been generally unhappy with the direction of the parks for the last 20 years and I haven't been shy about saying that around here.

The Parks will always be the cash cow that keeps on giving until its not. That is just what has to be accepted by Parks Fans. Disney will use that money to fund other parts of the company, and hopefully the Parks at some point. And as has been repeated way too much, this is the same with most corporations around the world, divisions that make money fund other parts of the company.

But I'm not saying something you don't already know.

 

[Disney Irish]

There is a difference between siphoning money from other diversifying business areas,

and lowering capacity with less attractions, lacking upkeep and general disregard for services once offered(Parking Trams etc.)

Now you're talking specific operational decisions, lets leave that discussion for the Parks side of the site.

 

[celluloid]

Now you're talking specific operational decisions, lets leave that discussion for the Parks side of the site.

It was relevant to what was said. There is a difference between what was done before and now.

Directly related to budget health of the company siphoning you pointed out the other person had to accept. It was not like you were discussing the merits of The Little Mermaid live action remake.

 

[MrPromey]

The Parks will always be the cash cow that keeps on giving until its not. That is just what has to be accepted by Parks Fans. Disney will use that money to fund other parts of the company, and hopefully the Parks at some point. And as has been repeated way too much, this is the same with most corporations around the world, divisions that make money fund other parts of the company.

But I'm not saying something you don't already know.

No, you're not but there was once a time when they were far more interested in reinvesting in the parks... and that's when attendance and revenue from the parks were both less over the course of decades so it's not like things were somehow unsustainable the way they were doing it - not for that division of the company, anyway.

 

[Disney Irish]

No, you're not but there was once a time when they were far more interested in reinvesting in the parks... and that's when attendance and revenue from the parks were both less over the course of decades so it's not like things were somehow unsustainable the way they were doing it - not for that division of the company, anyway.

Everything ebbs and flows.

Park investments will happen again, whether they are what we wish would happen or not. And D+ will become profitable and hopefully self sufficient. I like this saying here, its always darkest before the dawn. And I believe that to be true here, Disney for all the negative things that are happening right now will come out of this dark period. This I believe with my Disney heart, and my business mind.

 

[BrianLo]

For the first time in his illustrious 20+ years Iger sees Parks as a growth opportunity - via investment and expansion.

Maybe nothing of this will ever come to be, but it is a long, long time coming for him to take that position.

I'll continue to be over here being optimistically delusional. I don't think that's considered Pixie Dust if there is self awareness, right? Or just the first step to recovery.

 

[celluloid]

For the first time in his illustrious 20+ years Iger sees Parks as a growth opportunity - via investment and expansion.

Maybe nothing of this will ever come to be, but it is a long, long time coming for him to take that position.

I'll continue to be over here being optimistically delusional. I don't think that's considered Pixie Dust if there is self awareness, right? Or just the first step to recovery.

Iger is too old and almost finished to be "the guy" who wakes sleeping beauty as this trend continues. He is stubborn and the one who caused it.

Hope the next person could be.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Well if that day comes when TikTok takes over as primary entertainment, well then we truly are moving toward the future shown in the Mike Judge film Idiocracy.

As much as I like Mike Judge, I hope that day never comes.....

I’m not saying TikTok will “take over”… I’m saying it’s a very diluted market. Streaming services can ask people to pay something for their content, but it’s difficult to ask them to pay much when people can shrug and get by on other offerings if need be. My toddler / now preschooler has taken my tv hostage for the past couple of years. While I wouldn’t mind binge watching some manner of streaming show like I hear so many talk about, it ain’t gonna happen. But I can attest to the fact that there is still a big difference in sighing and entertaining oneself on a smartphone, and just staring at the wall (or Blippi, which is more or less the same thing) for an hour. If people want to save a buck, they now have quite a few options in doing that. I think that limits the asking price of streaming services. At least for now - maybe in the future they’ll form a pseudo-monopoly with YouTube or something. People tend to find a way to monetize in the long run - like I said, though, I just think the specifics are a wild card at this point. In the dotcom era, who would have predicted AOL would flop and an unknown company named Google would reign supreme? Wild West territory means outcomes that are very difficult to predict.

 

[MrPromey]

For the first time in his illustrious 20+ years Iger sees Parks as a growth opportunity - via investment and expansion.

Maybe nothing of this will ever come to be, but it is a long, long time coming for him to take that position.

I'll continue to be over here being optimistically delusional. I don't think that's considered Pixie Dust if there is self awareness, right? Or just the first step to recovery.

I wish I shared your optimism and I really mean that.

As for the dust, I'm not sure what step self awareness is and if being further along the path is a good or bad thing (it sure doesn't feel good) but we're all here because we have a problem we can't completely quit, right?

 

[TP2000]

You can’t blame people for being confused. We were told in the Strange World thread that racism hasn’t been a thing in this country for 60 years so there’s nothing to “correct” on that score. Now Disney has to wait longer to cast Halle Bailey in TLM because her casting may have alienated a large part of the audience.

It was actually a large part of the audience overseas that is directly to blame for Mermaid's unprofitability at the global box office.

The Little Mermaid did reasonably well in the USA. It was in overseas markets like Western Europe and East Asia where Mermaid fell well below expectations and box office projections by "experts".

If Mermaid had made its $300 Million in the USA but also had the same domestic/overseas percentage split as Barbie had this past weekend (which would have put Mermaid at $400+ overseas), Mermaid would have broken even much faster.

The overseas markets from Japan to Germany failed to show up for Mermaid, and thus it lost money at the global box office.

Try as you might, you can't (or at least shouldn't) blame audiences in the Midwest who did see Mermaid for the people in Frankfurt and Tokyo and Paris who chose not to see Mermaid.

 

[Chi84]

It was actually a large part of the audience overseas that is directly to blame for Mermaid's unprofitability at the global box office.

The Little Mermaid did reasonably well in the USA. It was in overseas markets like Western Europe and East Asia where Mermaid fell well below expectations and box office projections by "experts".

If Mermaid had made its $300 Million in the USA but also had the same domestic/overseas percentage split as Barbie had this past weekend (which would have put Mermaid at $400+ overseas), Mermaid would have broken even much faster.

The overseas markets from Japan to Germany failed to show up for Mermaid, and thus it lost money at the global box office.

Try as you might, you can't (or at least shouldn't) blame audiences in the Midwest who did see Mermaid for the people in Frankfurt and Tokyo and Paris who chose not to see Mermaid.

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But people here said that was just an excuse without any basis in fact.

 

[TP2000]

Let's use a Parks example.

Anyone with sense, left, right, or center, agrees that the depiction of Native Americans in Peter Pan's Flight is problematic at best. Nobody thought Splash Mountain, the ride, was racist, though its source material was certainly controversial. Yet the "red man" scene is here to stay for the foreseeable future while Br'er Rabbit has been sent packing. Why? Because Splash Mountain had noisier activists.

I'm not woke. Some Officially Good People here who are obviously morally superior to most of us consider me to be an official Deplorable.

But even I roll my eyes when I'm on Peter Pan's Flight and my pirate ship flies past the Indian Chief and he says "Ugh" on the audio track.

Seriously, WDI and TDA and TDO? None of you hadn't thought to edit that line out 25 years ago?

 

[TP2000]

But people here said that was just an excuse without any basis in fact.

Which part of all that was just an excuse without any basis in fact?

Because I've mainly stuck to the hard facts and actual data that the box office figures clearly show us.

 

[Disney Irish]

In the dotcom era, who would have predicted AOL would flop and an unknown company named Google would reign supreme? Wild West territory means outcomes that are very difficult to predict.

Oh I'm aware, I was an investor in WebVan back in the dotcom era because I was sure that eventually everyone would want to have their groceries delivered. I just happen to be early to the party and back the wrong horse, but it did happen. Now look at Amazon, Safeway, and others that offer grocery delivery across the country.

 

[TP2000]

Netflix licensing covered budgets. Selling a movie to yourself to put on YOUR OWN streaming service does not.

And PVOD is basically zero. It's been entirely cannibalized by D+.

But.... but... what about DVD and BluRay sales?

Lightyear sold $3,400,000 in DVD and BluRay sales in the last 12 months. That's gotta pay for at least the Crafts Services table.

Mermaid should sell at least $7 or $8 Million in DVD/BluRays by Christmas. That's gonna put 'em over the top and fund the next one, right?