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Disney's Live Action The Little Mermaid

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Yes, but the numbers, while disappointing, aren’t going to discourage them from making further remakes, because the film’s failure outside the US is clearly an aberration tied very much to the controversies surrounding this specific project.
I agree with this, I just don’t think they’re happy about it.

They had one chance (this generation) to make a fortune off this movie and it broke even. It’s a huge lost opportunity.

I have no doubt they’ll carry on with the remakes searching for the next billion dollar box office.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I agree with this, I just don’t think they’re happy about it.

They had one chance (this generation) to make a fortune off this movie and it broke even. It’s a huge lost opportunity.

I have no doubt they’ll carry on with the remakes searching for the next billion dollar box office.
I’m pretty much alone here in thinking that at least some of the Disney bigwigs knew this was a gamble that may not pay off. I agree they would be disappointed, but not necessarily surprised. (I actually expected the film to do much worse than it has.)
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Welcome to Hollywood, where exec's think stuff they make will bring in truckloads of money. This isn't just a Disney thing. :)
Cf...

 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I’m not looking forward to the live-action Moana either, but yesterday I discovered that a friend of mine who’s never seen any of the other remakes is beyond excited about it. She totally brushed off my objection that Moana was too recent to be remade; all that mattered to her was that she would be getting more of an IP she loves.

I have no idea whether others share her view, but it was interesting to hear nonetheless.
This is where I kind of throw up my hands when it comes to the remakes.

I don't like them or see the point, but a lot of other people obviously do and I don't have to see them. Honestly, if Iger turned up at my front door tomorrow and anointed me the new CEO of Disney in a move more head scratching than Chapek's sudden elevation, I would probably struggle to justify closing off that revenue stream!
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
This is where I kind of throw up my hands when it comes to the remakes.

I don't like them or see the point, but a lot of other people obviously do and I don't have to see them. Honestly, if Iger turned up at my front door tomorrow and anointed me the new CEO of Disney in a move more head scratching than Chapek's sudden elevation, I would probably struggle to justify closing off that revenue stream!
Same, I haven’t seen a single one of them in the theater but I’ve seen them all (I think) on video/streaming… I’m personally not a fan but it’s hard to argue against the revenue they bring in, they’re hit or miss but overall they make money.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
This is where I kind of throw up my hands when it comes to the remakes.

I don't like them or see the point, but a lot of other people obviously do and I don't have to see them. Honestly, if Iger turned up at my front door tomorrow and anointed me the new CEO of Disney in a move more head scratching than Chapek's sudden elevation, I would probably struggle to justify closing off that revenue stream!
I think anyone who is honest would have a hard time justifying turning off that revenue stream as well, creatively bankrupt as they maybe.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
This is where I kind of throw up my hands when it comes to the remakes.

I don't like them or see the point, but a lot of other people obviously do and I don't have to see them. Honestly, if Iger turned up at my front door tomorrow and anointed me the new CEO of Disney in a move more head scratching than Chapek's sudden elevation, I would probably struggle to justify closing off that revenue stream!
Revenue as in less revenue that it costs to make and market?

Or just keep making them and hope for the best in the long run?

I guess if you can keep getting that sweet ESG financing to make them, why not?

They do employ vast numbers of people.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Yes, but the numbers, while disappointing, aren’t going to discourage them from making further remakes, because the film’s failure outside the US is clearly an aberration tied very much to the controversies surrounding this specific project.
Which raises a question I’ve asked but which hasn’t really been answered - do the folks glorying in TLMs failure want authoritarian governments to have a veto over American entertainment products? I was livid when Transformers: Age of Extinction halted its “narrative” to present what amounted to an ad glorifying the Chinese government, and I’ve been highly critical of Disney’s relationship with that government. A lot of the anti-TLM posters are the same who constantly bring up China to try to divert from American political issues, so I ask again - should Disney base creative decisions on how they think China (or Russia, or Saudi Arabia, etc) will react?
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Which raises a question I’ve asked but which hasn’t really been answered - do the folks glorying in TLMs failure want authoritarian governments to have a veto over American entertainment products? I was livid when Transformers: Age of Extinction halted its “narrative” to present what amounted to an ad glorifying the Chinese government, and I’ve been highly critical of Disney’s relationship with that government. A lot of the anti-TLM posters are the same who constantly bring up China to try to divert from American political issues, so I ask again - should Disney base creative decisions on how they think China (or Russia, or Saudi Arabia, etc) will react?

Authoritarian governments DO NOT have a veto over American entertainment products. China will be China no matter what TWDC creates.

It bothers me more that the budgets of these movies are so bloated TWDC needs China's box office to make money on a movie.

I know Iger loves China, but still, he should not have to rely on their box office.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Authoritarian governments DO NOT have a veto over American entertainment products. China will be China no matter what TWDC creates.

It bothers me more that the budgets of these movies are so bloated TWDC needs China's box office to make money on a movie.

I know Iger loves China, but still, he should not have to rely on their box office.
It’s odd that the party line seems to have become “we want cheap films.” Maybe it’s just me, but one (or even several) underachieving films doesn’t make me want Pixar to become Illuminations - I enjoy some of their films on a very non-demanding level, but they aren’t what one might call “good.” And it’s funny to read legitimate grousing about the sometimes lackluster cgi in Marvel films and then have folks shouting to spend LESS money on them. It’s almost like folks want to complain about Disney regardless of what they actually do…
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
It’s odd that the party line seems to have become “we want cheap films.” Maybe it’s just me, but one (or even several) underachieving films doesn’t make me want Pixar to become Illuminations - I enjoy some of their films on a very non-demanding level, but they aren’t what one might call “good.” And it’s funny to read legitimate grousing about the sometimes lackluster cgi in Marvel films and then have folks shouting to spend LESS money on them. It’s almost like folks want to complain about Disney regardless of what they actually do…
Yes, I can imagine the protest outside Disney's Burbank headquarters with people chanting "make cheaper films!"

Kind of a strange cause for Disney fans to be championing!
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
It’s odd that the party line seems to have become “we want cheap films.” Maybe it’s just me, but one (or even several) underachieving films doesn’t make me want Pixar to become Illuminations - I enjoy some of their films on a very non-demanding level, but they aren’t what one might call “good.” And it’s funny to read legitimate grousing about the sometimes lackluster cgi in Marvel films and then have folks shouting to spend LESS money on them. It’s almost like folks want to complain about Disney regardless of what they actually do…
It's odd when folks discuss trying to control the budgets of any film, it translates to “we want cheap films.” Nobody wants cheap films.

It's hard for the average person to see these astronomical budgets, see that ticket sales do not cover the expense, and just doing math, if we know we are not going to sell enough tickets, lower the budgets.

We see budget cuts all of the time in the parks. I know, I know, there is a double standard and that's just the way it is.

Besides, it's more about the story. If movie has mass appeal and sells a lot of tickets, no one cares what it costs.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
It’s odd that the party line seems to have become “we want cheap films.” Maybe it’s just me, but one (or even several) underachieving films doesn’t make me want Pixar to become Illuminations - I enjoy some of their films on a very non-demanding level, but they aren’t what one might call “good.” And it’s funny to read legitimate grousing about the sometimes lackluster cgi in Marvel films and then have folks shouting to spend LESS money on them. It’s almost like folks want to complain about Disney regardless of what they actually do…
And here is the rub of it all, movies and tv shows are only going to get more expensive.

The WGA and now potentially SAG are striking for higher pay, hence budgets are only going to keep increasing.

So while I agree overall that Disney needs to rein in budgets, there is a lot of fixed costs in Hollywood that they cannot control.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I think anyone who is honest would have a hard time justifying turning off that revenue stream as well, creatively bankrupt as they maybe.
Anyone looking at it from a honest standpoint, wouldn't just look at the revenue. If it were me, I would definitely shut any live action remake down that has a crazy tent pole budget. 200/250mil is just too crazy for this kind of thing. $130mil tops, and that's for a top tier film like froen. If all the direct to home sequels from the 90s cost the same as the original lion king or beauty and the beast. How long do they continue to make them? Not long I would guess.

And the other factor to look at is just lke the direct to home sequels, what effect does that have on the brand image? It wasn't great for the direct to home stuff. So I get when people see something like mermaid making 520mil, it seems great. And with a more reasonable budget it could be.

The other side, and none of us have the information. Is how do the live actions effect merchandise. Is it a one for the other wash? Did they see an increase in overall sales in that IP? Because that is a huge part of the Disney way. Are the live action remakes giving them that sweet merchandise lift that they so covet?
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
It's odd when folks discuss trying to control the budgets of any film, it translates to “we want cheap films.” Nobody wants cheap films.

It's hard for the average person to see these astronomical budgets, see that ticket sales do not cover the expense, and just doing math, if we know we are not going to sell enough tickets, lower the budgets.
Why do you care, though? Isn't that a problem for Disney and their accountants?

We see budget cuts all of the time in the parks. I know, I know, there is a double standard and that's just the way it is.
Well, are you happy when you see budget cuts at the parks? As a fan, do you react with satisfaction that the parks will be more profitable for the company?
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Anyone looking at it from a honest standpoint, wouldn't just look at the revenue. If it were me, I would definitely shut any live action remake down that has a crazy tent pole budget. 200/250mil is just too crazy for this kind of thing. $130mil tops, and that's for a top tier film like froen. If all the direct to home sequels from the 90s cost the same as the original lion king or beauty and the beast. How long do they continue to make them? Not long I would guess.

And the other factor to look at is just lke the direct to home sequels, what effect does that have on the brand image? It wasn't great for the direct to home stuff. So I get when people see something like mermaid making 520mil, it seems great. And with a more reasonable budget it could be.

The other side, and none of us have the information. Is how do the live actions effect merchandise. Is it a one for the other wash? Did they see an increase in overall sales in that IP? Because that is a huge part of the Disney way. Are the live action remakes giving them that sweet merchandise lift that they so covet?
You have to look at the entire revenue stream, not just box office. And given that its an easy money maker, even if not directly from the box office, it only makes sense to continue them. Again if we're looking at it honestly.

Also as I just mentioned, while I agree Disney needs to rein in the budgets there are a lot of fixed costs that are going to continue to only drive up budgets. So that $130M that you mentioned may not be enough after all the new contracts get signed post-strikes in Hollywood. Because its not going to be just the WGA and maybe SAG getting new contracts, it'll be all of Hollywood as its a domino effect once one contract is signed.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Why do you care, though? Isn't that a problem for Disney and their accountants?


Well, are you happy when you see budget cuts at the parks? As a fan, do you react with satisfaction that the parks will be more profitable for the company?
For point one, while I am sure the accounts are very creative about moving money around and fool shareholders into thinking all is well, but as a regular person sees a company, I am a fan of, losing money on movies, I wonder how long they can get away with it.

For point two, you took my post wrong, I dislike the double standard of the movie business allowed to hit and miss randomly and lose money and the theme park budgets are so tight, many times cuts are made.

The theme parks must make more and more money, take no chances, immediately shut down things that so not make "enough money".

I personally would put more money into the parks.

TWDC spends hundreds of millions of dollars on a movie, that loses money, that no one remembers in a month instead of building an attraction that can live for decades and folks can enjoy over and over again.
 
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Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
Sure, they make revenue.

Just not enough to recoup what it costs to make and market.

But they know this going in I presume.
This is where the timing of TLM production and budget decisions and the pandemic fall into play. I don’t think we can say they knew that going into TLM, as so much was planned pre-pandemic.

They should, however, know going into Snow White, coming out in 2024. It started in idea pre-pandemic, but casting doesn’t appear to have begun until 2021. So, theoretically, Disney should have adjusted budget considerations given the impact the pandemic had on movie going as they weren’t as far along in the process as TLM was. It should theoretically also be much less CGI heavy.
 

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