DisneylandForward

[Disney Irish]

Why does everyone hate the Red Car Trolley.

I like the Red Car and think its fine where it is, barn and all.

Anyways when everyone stops playing armchair imagineers, the attraction is supposed to be Pan and is also serving the needs of HKDL as a co-funded project. I for one hope to heaven they don't go back to the drawing board a fourth time...

Yep, whether King Thanos or some other Marvel theme this idea that it must be a coaster is just hoping for something that'll likely never be.

 

[TP2000]

Or you lump it into the budget of an already planned land budget for the surrounding area. That is how Disney budgets works. Ka-Chow!

No, I was familiar with budgeting and industrial supply in my career. That's not how budgeting works for a "Phase 2".

You pay for Phase 2 once Phase 2 actually gets approved. Until then, you wait.

 

[TP2000]

Why does everyone hate the Red Car Trolley.

WHO on earth could hate the Red Car Trolley? I love that little thing. It's adorable, and the ads in the cars are some of the best Disney Easter eggs they've ever come up with. They need another 2 or 3 trolleys plying the rails, with another stop or two going further into an expanded DCA.

But as the map shows, the current and very humble Red Car Trolley maintenance barn can be moved to several new locations if and when the full expansion of DCA into that 7+ acres of land gets approved.

 

[Disney Irish]

No, I was familiar with budgeting and industrial supply in my career. That's not how budgeting works for a "Phase 2".

You pay for Phase 2 once Phase 2 actually gets approved. Until then, you wait.

Except they were already paying for at least some partial retracking (and I believe a bit of rerouting) of the Trolley anyways. So they were already budgeting out the Trolley as part of that new land project anyways. Not much more to just build a new Trolley barn on the other side of M:BO and turn the track left backstage instead of right into the new land.

 

[TP2000]

Except they were already paying for at least some partial retracking (and I believe a bit of rerouting) of the Trolley anyways. So they were already budgeting out the Trolley as part of that new land project anyways. Not much more to just build a new Trolley barn on the other side of M:BO and turn the track left backstage instead of right into the new land.

How do you know that's where it would go? What if it continued deep south on new trackage into the new land? Or veered west into Cars Land on new trackage as a funny homage to Roger Rabbit and cars versus trolleys?

There's a bunch of options for where the future backstage trolley barn goes.

What you don't do, if you aren't actively building the ride that would take over this area, is just hope that Phase 2 gets approved a few years into the unknown future and spend a bunch of money you don't have to in order to move a trolley barn that doesn't need to be moved yet. Or perhaps ever.

Or, at least, you don't spend that money needlessly if you have at least an Associates Degree in Project Management.

 

[Disney Irish]

How do you know that's where it would go? What if it continued deep south into the new land? Or veered west into Cars Land on new trackage as a funny homage to Roger Rabbit and cars versus trolleys?

There's a bunch of options for where the future trolley barn goes.

What you don't do, if you aren't actively building the ride that would take over this area, is just hope that Phase 2 gets approved a few years into the unknown future and spend a bunch of money you don't have to in order to move a trolley barn that doesn't need to be moved yet. Or perhaps ever.

Or, at least, you don't spend that money needlessly if you have at least an Associates Degree in Project Management.

Or what you don’t do is move a building you have no intention of moving in the first place.

Just because it can be moved doesn’t mean they will move it whenever this attraction is built.

 

[TP2000]

Or what you don’t do is move a building you have no intention of moving in the first place.

Just because it can be moved doesn’t mean they will move it whenever this attraction is built.

And.... I rest my case.

 

[Disney Irish]

And.... I rest my case.

Not sure how that proves your point. But whatever, glad you’re now conceding the Trolley barn can stay where it is and the new attraction can still be built.

 

[Jiggsawpuzzle35]

This is silly. Galaxy's Edge proved that Disney can, and will, move cheap and non-essential "backstage" buildings and infrastructure whenever they need to. If they really want it. None of this stuff in the DCA backstage area can't be rebuilt elsewhere, including the cheap pre-fab trolley barn they built for the Red Car attraction. Who says the Red Car Trolley has to end just east of Guardians of the Galaxy? Why can't it continue onward, or end on the other side of the Guardians tower?

Everything between Cars Land and Hollywood Land can be demolished and moved elsewhere, rebuilt, or replicated in a new location. And the abandoned tram route from 1998 that hasn't been used since 2009 is perfectly acceptable as a backstage access road, as it has been used as such for 15 years now.

This entire area is up for grabs and usable, and it measures about 7 and a half acres.

View attachment 787918

So you are saying there’s a chance they can knock down the parade float building and potentially have enough land to build a Big Hero 6 attraction on the outskirts of San Fransokyo?

 

[MistaDee]

Not saying you're wrong overall, as anything is possible, I do think your expansion map is a bit too generous though (just my opinion).

But for example if the Trolley barn was going to be moved for a future 3rd attraction behind M:BO they would have moved it when they were building the land, this is what many thought would happen. Its not like they didn't already have plans to place a 3rd attraction behind M:BO. So the fact they didn't sort of indicates they intent to keep it right where it is today.

Am I taking crazy pills? This logic makes negative sense to me:

Disney has already changed its plans for this Avengers attraction what, 3 times already now? The current location of the Trolley barn is in no way concrete proof of what they intend to, or ultimately will do with the space.

I'm sorry but you seem to have a very limited view of what's possible with an expansion pad. Remember this is the same company that literally moved a river for Galaxy's Edge....

 

[MistaDee]

So you are saying there’s a chance they can knock down the parade float building and potentially have enough land to build a Big Hero 6 attraction on the outskirts of San Fransokyo?

While they're at it can they also raze the Pixar Pier backstage area to build my CoCo Mystic Manor

 

[TP2000]

Am I taking crazy pills?

No. We are the sober ones, I promise.

 

[Disney Irish]

Am I taking crazy pills? This logic makes negative sense to me:

Disney has already changed its plans for this Avengers attraction what, 3 times already now? The current location of the Trolley barn is in no way concrete proof of what they intend to, or ultimately will do with the space.

I'm sorry but you seem to have a very limited view of what's possible with an expansion pad. Remember this is the same company that literally moved a river for Galaxy's Edge....

The whole park can be razed if that is what Disney wants to do. But we can put some logic into things to see the potential, especially based on recent actions surrounding said land. Does it mean its for sure going to happen, no of course not. So yes the Trolley barn, and everything around it could be razed to make more room. Heck even M:BO could be razed if Disney sees fit. Again does that means its going to happen, no. So my opinion, and others here, are just as valid as your opinion. I'm sorry if you don't agree.

No one here, no one, knows for sure what Disney is going to do, especially regarding this area.

 

[Disney Irish]

So since a bunch of posters think the Trolley barn may be moving to make more room for a potential Cosmic Rewind clone behind M:BO, where do you think Disney would put it?

 

[TP2000]

So you are saying there’s a chance they can knock down the parade float building and potentially have enough land to build a Big Hero 6 attraction on the outskirts of San Fransokyo?

Sure. That parade float building was never part of DCA's original plan. It was built reluctantly and fast in early 2002 to replace the tents they had been storing the MSEP floats in after they added that parade to DCA in July, 2001 in a huge panic. They built it in a slice of the then-existing Timon Parking Lot.

It doesn't need to be there, especially for a park that hasn't had a true parade since 2017 when Paint The Night left. And based on the Better Together thing they've got running, which is only half a parade, they aren't in any mood to change that. DCA doesn't need two separate parade float warehouses.

 

[MisterPenguin]

You don't need a whole building to house one's parade. A simple tent will do.

 

[TP2000]

So since a bunch of posters think the Trolley barn may be moving to make more room for a potential Cosmic Rewind clone behind M:BO, where do you think Disney would put it?

I don't think the trolley barn has to be moved for modest expansion; the type that would just add a single E Ticket ride warehouse south of the Avenger's Campus entry points. The trolley barn was simply placed where it is because at the time (2012) that was the southern perimeter of the park and the easiest and most obvious place to put it.

But if they really want/need to go with a major expansion for that remaining 7+ acres of land in the southeast corner of DCA, they'd likely need to move the trolley barn to the new perimeter of the park. It could go several places.

One place I don't think we've considered is to place the trolley barn on the north end of its route, behind Buena Vista Street.

There's land there for a facility twice the size of the current barn that could house 3 or 4 trolleys, if they ever wanted to expand the system through the enlarged park. You'd have to move the trash dumpsters though, and I have it on good authority that the break room nearby is a sacred Judge Judy viewing location, so you might get some pushback from old timers.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think the trolley barn has to be moved for modest expansion; the type that would just add a single E Ticket ride warehouse south of the Avenger's Campus entry points.

This I agree, as was my original point when this whole thing started.

But if they really want/need to go with a major expansion for that remaining 7+ acres of land in the southeast corner of DCA, they'd likely need to move the trolley barn to the new perimeter of the park. It could go several places.

One place I don't think we've considered is to place the trolley barn on the north end of its route, behind Buena Vista Street.

There's land there for a facility twice the size of the current barn that could house 3 or 4 trolleys, if they ever wanted to expand the system through the enlarged park. You'd have to move the trash dumpsters though, and I have it on good authority that the break room nearby is a sacred Judge Judy viewing location, so you might get some pushback from old timers.

View attachment 788036

I don't think we're getting more than one single attraction in that space, so they don't need all of that ~7 acres (give or take an acre). But if they did want to move the Trolley barn for whatever reason, even if just to get it further out of the way, that space seems as good as any.

 

[MistaDee]

The whole park can be razed if that is what Disney wants to do. But we can put some logic into things to see the potential, especially based on recent actions surrounding said land. Does it mean its for sure going to happen, no of course not. So yes the Trolley barn, and everything around it could be razed to make more room. Heck even M:BO could be razed if Disney sees fit. Again does that means its going to happen, no. So my opinion, and others here, are just as valid as your opinion. I'm sorry if you don't agree.

No one here, no one, knows for sure what Disney is going to do, especially regarding this area.

bruh

this was the whole origin of this debate: "putting logic" or perhaps more aptly using logic to see where it would be most feasible to fit a story coaster into DCA or its part of the DisneylandForward expansion plot.

I've laid out why Avengers campus makes sense to me given the size of the showbuilding as well as the ride system/IP fit.

I don't know if it's productive to discuss this specific aspect further, so maybe we should turn to the ride system that we seem to be getting in that space: Disney's Universal's Scoop 3.0.

What are folks impressions of the Peter Pan ride so far? I was skeptical but after seeing a longer video I think it seems like a neat attraction. Not the "park defining kind of E-ticket" that Radiator Springs Racers was, and I think most on here agree DCA needs 1 (ideally 2) more of, but certainly a nice experience.

Here's the video if anyone is interested, spoilers beware:

 

[Disney Irish]

bruh

this was the whole origin of this debate: "putting logic" or perhaps more aptly using logic to see where it would be most feasible to fit a story coaster into DCA or its part of the DisneylandForward expansion plot.

I've laid out why Avengers campus makes sense to me given the size of the showbuilding as well as the ride system/IP fit.

Dude, several of us laid out why it wasn't the only feasible location. We even got a reasonable solution on how they can get around any height limitations that you believe would make it not be a good fit for any of the DisneylandForward plots. Its that we keep getting lost in the minute details and that is where the disagreements come from. Its why overall I'm not fond of the Armchair Imagineering, as its those minute details that gets things heated from time-to-time.

But I get and understand your points, I as well as others just don't agree with your assessments, and that is fine. I'm not an Imagineer, and I suspect you're not as well (if you are I applaud any work you do), so really this is all academic anyways. Its fun to talk about, but in the end we have no impact on anything.

I don't know if it's productive to discuss this specific aspect further, so maybe we should turn to the ride system that we seem to be getting in that space: Disney's Universal's Scoop 3.0.

What are folks impressions of the Peter Pan ride so far? I was skeptical but after seeing a longer video I think it seems like a neat attraction. Not the "park defining kind of E-ticket" that Radiator Springs Racers was, and I think most on here agree DCA needs 1 (ideally 2) more of, but certainly a nice experience.

Here's the video if anyone is interested, spoilers beware:

Personally I like the ride system, and think is has loads of potential for future use including a potential Avengers Campus attraction. Does it need to be a "park defining E-Ticket", no. But can it still be a worthy Marvel E-Ticket for Avengers Campus, yes I think it can.