DisneylandForward

[mickEblu]

You forget Gadgets in 1993.

Haha forgot to say “E ticket” themed coaster.

 

[Disney Irish]

Haha forgot to say “E ticket” themed coaster.

Then I guess if you want to get technical there is also Screamin' in 2001 since it was themed to an old school woodie.

 

[TheRealSkull]

The resort does not have enough current space in its existing boundaries to remove four surface lots and replace them with one single parking structure (Timon). In addition to fully utilizing western disneyland drive plots for theme park expansions (which will drive attendance and parking needs). In addition to having anywhere significant for more resorts and accommodations.

The resort would be in a massive parking deficit and would be unable to build the number of hotel keys they’d like to. It’s just not happening unless they acquire land.

Beyond the fact they’ve made it clear they want hotel rooms and retail for the conventioneers.

Basically Disneyland and DCA can majorly expand or you can have a third park. You can’t have both because they sure are never sacrificing hotels.

Gotta disagree with you here. They totally could fix all of that with the Eastern Gateway and build a parking structure big enough. Also would never fully admit this early in the process that a third park would be going in the Toy Story Lot. Brick and mortar retial is dying. People aren't going into the Anaheim Garden Walk right now. It is deserted. It would be disaterous to put a west coast Disney Springs in that area. They would have buldozed Downtown Disney if they were going to do this, but instead they are adding more to it. They would put zero money into Downtown Disney if this were true. The goal of Disneyland Forward is for expansion purposes for the theme parks, to get people to purchase more days for hotels and theme parks at the Disneyland Resort. You are not going to accomplish that by adding a hotel and retail area in what is Disneyland's last valuable piece of land they still have that could house another theme park easily. And no, it is not too small. It is actually one acre bigger than DCA. I don't see people walking all down that way to spend time at another shopping district because that sure as hell won't attract crowds and add capacity as much as a third park would. A new shopping district will not get people to book more nights at their Disney hotel.

Also they would not want to admit to putting a theme park in the Toy Story Lot before the city voted. If they had done that, the residents of Anaheim would have pushed back on this expansion twice as hard. It would have been a complete mess, putting Disneyland Forward at risk of getting approved.

 

[mickEblu]

Then I guess if you want to get technical there is also Screamin' in 2001 since it was themed to an old school woodie.

Haha no that’s why I said themed. An outdoor roller coaster themed to be an outdoor rollercoaster doesn’t count.

 

[Disney Irish]

Gotta disagree with you here. They totally could fix all of that with the Eastern Gateway and build a parking structure big enough. Also would never fully admit this early in the process that a third park would be going in the Toy Story Lot. Brick and mortar retial is dying. People aren't going into the Anaheim Garden Walk right now. It is deserted. It would be disaterous to put a west coast Disney Springs in that area. They would have buldozed Downtown Disney if they were going to do this, but instead they are adding more to it. They would put zero money into Downtown Disney if this were true. The goal of Disneyland Forward is for expansion purposes for the theme parks, to get people to purchase more days for hotels and theme parks at the Disneyland Resort. You are not going to accomplish that by adding a hotel and retail area in what is Disneyland's last valuable piece of land they still have that could house another theme park easily. And no, it is not too small. It is actually one acre bigger than DCA. I don't see people walking all down that way to spend time at another shopping district because that sure as hell won't attract crowds and add capacity as much as a third park would. A new shopping district will not get people to book more nights at their Disney hotel.

Also they would not want to admit to putting a theme park in the Toy Story Lot before the city voted. If they had done that, the residents of Anaheim would have pushed back on this expansion twice as hard. It would have been a complete mess, putting Disneyland Forward at risk of getting approved.

I know its just concept art and isn't definitive of anything. But if we take what they presented as some sort of plan we can see that there is a parking structure (red) and hotel (green) in that concept art for TSL -

It would make sense given the need for more parking, and their desire to add a premium diamond hotel (the previous hotel plan from the west side).

 

[BrianLo]

It is actually one acre bigger than DCA.

This is exactly what I am banging my head against the wall.

Where's the DCA's hotel, where's DCA's backstage, where's DCA's bus loops, where's DCA's parking? You can't have a satellite park and ignore all these things that actually contribute to the function of DCA.

Just because it is theoretically big enough to support an on stage park, does not mean Disneyland Resort owns enough property to fully support it and all the other things they want/need to do. The existing infrastructure barely supports DLR as is and you are getting rid of your massive Toy Story lot.

The new parking structure fixes the deficit and add parking to support future crowds that a massively upscaled Disneyland and DCA will bring in. It allows them to develop Toy Story Lot. It does not provide parking for the Toy Story lot development.

Your "third park" is already being grafted onto the other two. Disneyland Resort does not have enough space for a 'fourth' park. Without significantly scaling back future hotel plans and sending the resort into a massive transit and parking hole. I'm going to level with you, this current company does not put parks above hotels.

Even if they acquired more land, that new land is not zoned and approved for hotel keys. So where are those going? The answer to that is cancelling Disneyland Forward and shifting back to more retail and dining in that space.

You can have a third park or you can expand the existing two. You are not getting both, unless the company buys significantly more land. Which if you actually wanted to get your hopes up, I think would be the Angel Stadium.

 

[BrianLo]

I know its just concept art and isn't definitive of anything. But if we take what they presented as some sort of plan we can see that there is a parking structure (red) and hotel (green) in that concept art for TSL -

View attachment 788107

It would make sense given the need for more parking, and their desire to add a premium diamond hotel (the previous hotel plan from the west side).

Thanks. Even the Blue Sky hotel has a parking garage attached to it. I think this image perfectly encapsulates how that site is big, but it is not actually big enough to fully support an independent park as a satellite disconnected from the rest of the complex. They need another good 30 acres.

Or they need to not have a hotel and parking. Which is kind of a non-starter.

 

[TheRealSkull]

I know its just concept art and isn't definitive of anything. But if we take what they presented as some sort of plan we can see that there is a parking structure (red) and hotel (green) in that concept art for TSL -

View attachment 788107

It would make sense given the need for more parking, and their desire to add a premium diamond hotel (the previous hotel plan from the west side).

They are already fixing it with the Eastern Gateway though. Sorry, I just don't see more of this shopping and dining nonsense coming to such valuable land.

 

[Disney Irish]

This is exactly what I am banging my head against the wall.

Where's the DCA's hotel, where's DCA's backstage, where's DCA's bus loops, where's DCA's parking? You can't have a satellite park and ignore all these things that actually contribute to the function of DCA.

Just because it is theoretically big enough to support an on stage park, does not mean Disneyland Resort owns enough property to fully support it and all the other things they want/need to do. The existing infrastructure barely supports DLR as is and you are getting rid of your massive Toy Story lot.

The new parking structure fixes the deficit and add parking to support future crowds that a massively upscaled Disneyland and DCA will bring in. It allows them to develop Toy Story Lot. It does not provide parking for the Toy Story lot development.

Your "third park" is already being grafted onto the other two. Disneyland Resort does not have enough space for a 'fourth' park. Without significantly scaling back future hotel plans and sending the resort into a massive transit and parking hole. I'm going to level with you, this current company does not put parks above hotels.

Even if they acquired more land, that new land is not zoned and approved for hotel keys. So where are those going? The answer to that is cancelling Disneyland Forward and shifting back to more retail and dining in that space.

You can have a third park or you can expand the existing two. You are not getting both, unless the company buys significantly more land.

This is also what I don't get, fans complain about Disney ticket prices being too high as it is but then want to turn around and say "Hey I want a 3rd gate". If ticket prices are too high then why are you willing to fork over for another ticket. Why not just accept you're essentially getting better bang for your buck by expanding the current two parks and getting a 3rd gate without forking over for a 3rd gate ticket.

 

[Disney Irish]

They are already fixing it with the Eastern Gateway though. Sorry, I just don't see more of this shopping and dining nonsense coming to such valuable land.

How many parking spaces is Pumbaa structure getting?
How many parking spaces is being lost with TSL, DTDL, DLHL, etc?
Now do they add up to be the same plus enough for expansion in the future or are they still at a deficit?

 

[BrianLo]

They are already fixing it with the Eastern Gateway though. Sorry, I just don't see more of this shopping and dining nonsense coming to such valuable land.

A fully built out Pumbaa structure adds 17600 spaces.

The Toy Story Lots and Simba/Disneyland Hotel region/DtD surface lots removal reduces the resort's surface lot count by 12600.

5000 parking spaces temporarily "fixes" the deficit and gives the resort a small amount of headroom for future growth in attendance. It's laughably short for another gate.

 

[mickEblu]

Thanks. Even the Blue Sky hotel has a parking garage attached to it. I think this image perfectly encapsulates how that site is big, but it is not actually big enough to fully support an independent park as a satellite disconnected from the rest of the complex. They need another good 30 acres.

Or they need to not have a hotel and parking. Which is kind of a non-starter.

What if they acquired Garden Walk?

 

[Disney Irish]

A fully built out Pumbaa structure adds 17600 spaces.

The Toy Story Lots and Simba/Disneyland Hotel region/DtD surface lots removal reduces the resort's surface lot count by 12600.

5000 parking spaces temporarily "fixes" the deficit and gives the resort a small amount of headroom for future growth in attendance. It's laughably short for another gate.

Exactly, Darkbeer used to say the Resort was always short on parking, I don't remember the exact number but I want to say it was close to 5000 or more spaces. And that was after building out all the parking structures including Pumbaa. So that 5000 "gain" is really making up for the deficit that was already existing not future growth. Add on a 3rd gate, and bam you're back in a deficit. Not gonna happen.

 

[BrianLo]

What if they acquired Garden Walk?

I think it would be MUCH more on the table. Though we'd still need some erosion for another hotel complex somewhere on their existing property boundaries. Which would probably eat into some of the West of Disneyland Drive plans.

If they owned Gardenwalk for their retail desires and the Hester Street apartment complex though (to have a parking complex), ya that would probably make the whole thing way more feasible/palatable.

I don't know why they haven't bought Gardenwalk.


I kind of swing back to if they are going to send guests 'off site' to a satellite complex anyways, do it for Angel stadium, which has transit already. Convention guests are more apt to wander into a dining complex than a theme park.

I mean the model is Universal Orlando, truly. Toy Story is just their in between Endless Summer complex.

 

[Disney Irish]

Also has any one really thought about what would happen politically if Disney went ahead and built a 3rd gate after promising that the only theme park expansion would be going on the west side? I don't even want to think about the headlines of "Disney pulls wool over voters eyes" and others. Not to mention what it would do to the relationship with the City. Its not going to happen....

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it would be MUCH more on the table. Though we'd still need some erosion for another hotel complex somewhere on their existing property boundaries. Which would probably eat into some of the West of Disneyland Drive plans.

If they owned Gardenwalk for their retail desires and the Hester Street apartment complex though (to have a parking complex), ya that would probably make the whole thing way more feasible/palatable.

I don't know why they haven't bought Gardenwalk.


I kind of swing back to if they are going to send guests 'off site' to a satellite complex anyways, do it for Angel stadium, which has transit already. Convention guests are more apt to wander into a dining complex than a theme park.

I mean the model is Universal Orlando, truly. Toy Story is just their in between Endless Summer complex.

They passed on it 3-4 times already after bidding once, not sure why they would all of a sudden wake up and just think "Hey maybe we should buy Gardenwalk".

 

[BrianLo]

Also has any one really thought about what would happen politically if Disney went ahead and built a 3rd gate after promising that the only theme park expansion would be going on the west side? I don't even want to think about the headlines of "Disney pulls wool over voters eyes" and others. Not to mention what it would do to the relationship with the City. Its not going to happen....

Really, the whole banging my head against the wall comment comes from Disney has seemingly moved on, told everyone so and yet we keep re-litigating this.

I know it's disappointing. But given the options I actually prefer what Tokyo is currently doing rather than Universal.

 

[Disney Irish]

Really, the whole banging my head against the wall comment comes from Disney has seemingly moved on, told everyone so and yet we keep re-litigating this.

I know it's disappointing. But given the options I actually prefer what Tokyo is currently doing rather than Universal.

Agree, how many times do they have to say no before people start to believe its not happening.

 

[DLR92]

Disney buying Garden Walk will never happen. I wish people would just let it go.

 

[TheRealSkull]

I think people keep forgetting the Toy Story Lot is already zoned for a third gate