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News Disneyland Resort To Be A Major OC Vaccination Site-OCR

TP2000

Well-Known Member
If the very good news about vaccine distribution for the United States as a whole makes some folks upset, I have a topic about the Anaheim Supersite specifically folks might want to weigh in on...

The Supersites logistics, its sprawling massiveness, and the fact it's outdoors. This weekend is sunny and unseasonably warm, but next weekend the forecast shows a return of cold and rainy weather. The Supersite is outdoors and requires large amounts of walking across the parking lot setup and then a 180 degree turn with a long walk back to your car. This is not good for the elderly, even in warm and dry weather!

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-02-1.jpg


Add some rain, or temps down into the 50's, as is forecast later this week, and the Anaheim Supersite becomes an exercise in misery and discomfort for the elderly.

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-12-1.jpg


From a logistical perspective, when these Supersite were proposed via PowerPoint in a Sacramento office, I'm sure it looked like a fine idea. But logistically and realistically, the Supersites are prohibitive to many of the demographics that need the vaccine the most.

I am hoping that California can take a page from West Virginia and all the other states at the top of the rankings, and get vaccines out to local pharmacies and doctor's offices ASAP. Going to CVS or your doctor's office is infinitely easier, safer, and more accommodating than a Supersite.

CVS and your doctor also are indoors. It will keep raining off and on in SoCal for the next two months. :(
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
If the very good news about vaccine distribution for the United States as a whole makes some folks upset, I have a topic about the Anaheim Supersite specifically folks might want to weigh in on...

The Supersites logistics, its sprawling massiveness, and the fact it's outdoors. This weekend is sunny and unseasonably warm, but next weekend the forecast shows a return of cold and rainy weather. The Supersite is outdoors and requires large amounts of walking across the parking lot setup and then a 180 degree turn with a long walk back to your car. This is not good for the elderly, even in warm and dry weather!

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-02-1.jpg


Add some rain, or temps down into the 50's, as is forecast later this week, and the Anaheim Supersite becomes an exercise in misery and discomfort for the elderly.

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-12-1.jpg


From a logistical perspective, when these Supersite were proposed via PowerPoint in a Sacramento office, I'm sure it looked like a fine idea. But logistically and realistically, the Supersites are prohibitive to many of the demographics that need the vaccine the most.

I am hoping that California can take a page from West Virginia and all the other states at the top of the rankings, and get vaccines out to local pharmacies and doctor's offices ASAP. Going to CVS or your doctor's office is infinitely easier, safer, and more accommodating than a Supersite.

CVS and your doctor also are indoors. It will keep raining off and on in SoCal for the next two months. :(
Looks like the line for and exclusive AP popcorn bucket.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If the very good news about vaccine distribution for the United States as a whole makes some folks upset, I have a topic about the Anaheim Supersite specifically folks might want to weigh in on...

The Supersites logistics, its sprawling massiveness, and the fact it's outdoors. This weekend is sunny and unseasonably warm, but next weekend the forecast shows a return of cold and rainy weather. The Supersite is outdoors and requires large amounts of walking across the parking lot setup and then a 180 degree turn with a long walk back to your car. This is not good for the elderly, even in warm and dry weather!

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-02-1.jpg


Add some rain, or temps down into the 50's, as is forecast later this week, and the Anaheim Supersite becomes an exercise in misery and discomfort for the elderly.

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-12-1.jpg


From a logistical perspective, when these Supersite were proposed via PowerPoint in a Sacramento office, I'm sure it looked like a fine idea. But logistically and realistically, the Supersites are prohibitive to many of the demographics that need the vaccine the most.

I am hoping that California can take a page from West Virginia and all the other states at the top of the rankings, and get vaccines out to local pharmacies and doctor's offices ASAP. Going to CVS or your doctor's office is infinitely easier, safer, and more accommodating than a Supersite.

CVS and your doctor also are indoors. It will keep raining off and on in SoCal for the next two months. :(
It’s amazing how you still don’t understand the very basics of spread. But yes, let’s get lots of high risk individuals together into small indoor spaces and for good measure throw in some extra random people, including ones who are sick.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Just posting some very good news, and some very hard data from the CDC relevant to the topic at hand of vaccine distribution. :)

The USA is currently the fifth highest country when it comes to Covid vaccination rates. If California was up near Texas at #6 instead of down at the bottom at #49 as of yesterday, the USA might be able to nudge the UK out of the fourth place position.

1. Israel = 25.3% Vaccinated
2. UAE = 16.8% Vaccinated
3. Bahrain = 6.4% Vaccinated
4. United Kingdom = 5.4% Vaccinated
5. United States = 3.7% Vaccinated
6. Italy = 1.6% Vaccinated
7. Spain = 1.5% Vaccinated
8. Germany = 1.1% Vaccinated
9. Sweden = 0.8% Vaccinated
10. France = 0.5% Vaccinated


Notice a country not on that list? It's Canada! Their vaccine rollout has been horrible, and makes California look like a model of efficiency in comparison. Canadians are flying to Florida to get a shot because it's impossible to get one in Canada. And Canada's big "goal" is to vaccinate all Canadians by "the end of September". The goal for Orange County is to vaccinate all 3.2 Million people in OC by July 4th. Three months earlier than Canada.

This will be an interesting topic to watch play out around the world in 2021, that's for sure!


This is actually a good faith reply.

Canada is not on that list because you didn't check it off, you need to go on the side bar and make sure it is added in. Canada is currently 1.35%.

Secondly, I am not actually the one at all being critical of California's vaccine rollout, you were. In all honesty I partly agree, but not because of my ideological bent. The US is very disorganized right now. The sheer fact that a snow bird can come down and randomly receive the vaccine in Florida says something. But the US does have one of the better supplies - even if it was a huge overpromise how quickly everyone would be vaccinated and Canada has delivered the pessimistic view. Neither of which will likely come to pass.

I am critical of Canada though. Canada is frustrating in that the supply has been relatively poor. For a variety of reasons (America First) - the US disproportionately has received the vaccine. Now the logistics up here are sound - the people who need it are the ones receiving it. You cannot call up a drug mart and schedule yourself, because it is strictly being administered through health authorities and people are invited based on their priority status to book. Which is frustrating, because there is no line jumping.

If you are healthy enough to snowbird in the US you are not actually the highest priority need and thus should not be receiving it first - here or in the US.



But if we were actually talking about who really did things better it would be Japan and they’ve not vaccinated anyone yet!
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
It’s amazing how you still don’t understand the very basics of spread. But yes, let’s get lots of high risk individuals together into small indoor spaces and for good measure throw in some extra random people, including ones who are sick.

You make your friendly neighborhood CVS sound like the streets of Calcutta.

So all Covid vaccination must take place outdoors? Even in New York, where it's currently 35 degrees? Or Minneapolis where it's 15 degrees? It's not safe to get vaccinated in a CVS?
 
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1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
You make your friendly neighborhood CVS sound like the streets of Calcutta.

So all Covid vaccination must take place outdoors? Even in New York, where it's currently 35 degrees? Or Minneapolis where it's 15 degrees? It's not safe to get vaccinated in a CVS?
Why does it matter if the LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE are in doors or outdoors? The problem I see is THERE IS LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN HOURS LONG LINES in close proximity to each other waiting for the vaccine. How is getting the vaccine going to help if someone gets it while in line to get the vaccine. Those huge tents outside Disneyland with a monster packed and steady line does not look safe at all. I can wait for it to come to CVS where I can get it and stay socially distanced at a time when the store is not so busy.
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
This is actually a good faith reply.

Canada is not on that list because you didn't check it off, you need to go on the side bar and make sure it is added in. Canada is currently 1.35%.

Ah, well that bumps France out of the top 10. I looked for Canada and I just didn't see it, but I see now what you mean about having to go down into the drop down menu and specifically check it. Which is interesting because Mexico was automatically checked, but Canada wasn't.

But if we were actually talking about who really did things better it would be Japan and they’ve not vaccinated anyone yet!

I get that, and yet there's a dark side to it. Japan has no plan to start vaccinations for months; and they have no vaccine yet anyway.

I just heard about this New Zealand thing at my barbershop this afternoon, and when the man in the next chair was talking about it I thought surely he was mistaken. I just checked, and he's not.

New Zealand won't even be able to begin vaccine distribution until the end of March. They have absolutely no supply of vaccine on that island nation, and their first shipment doesn't arrive for two more months. The official vaccine rollout for New Zealanders is now scheduled for early April.

New Zealand has a very low infection rate thank goodness, but they achieved that by completely cutting themselves off from the rest of the world. Air New Zealand no longer flies to foreign countries, no foreign carriers are allowed to fly in. All New Zealand citizens have been confined to that island for months, and it's nearly impossible for a foreigner to get in. They are an island, literally and figuratively. While it's not quite as sinister as East Berlin circa 1980, the effect is much the same. They're stuck there, and their economy is cratering because of it.

Can you imagine if the USA had no vaccine supply coming until late March??? And no one was allowed to leave their state, or travel to another state in the meantime??? Americans would be losing their minds over that.

Australia won't begin vaccinating their citizens until late March. Suddenly my frustration with the Othena App seems very minor and trivial. Although I am still worried about next week's cold and rain at the Supersites!

 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Why does it matter if the LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE are in doors or outdoors? The problem I see is THERE IS LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN HOURS LONG LINES in close proximity to each other waiting for the vaccine. How is getting the vaccine going to help if someone gets it while in line to get the vaccine. Those huge tents outside Disneyland with a monster packed and steady line does not look safe at all. I can wait for it to come to CVS where I can get it and stay socially distanced at a time when the store is not so busy.

The states that are the best at vaccine rates so far are the states that de-centralized their distribution plans. West Virginia, Texas, South Dakota, etc. are using local pharmacies and doctor's offices, sometimes exclusively in the case of West Virginia and the Dakotas. It's cheaper and faster that way, and is saving more elderly by the day.

Sacramento seems to have gone all in on these government run "Supersites", which look great on paper. But in reality the Supersites are daunting and inefficient for the elderly and infirm who need the vaccine first and fastest. The Dodger Stadium Supersite is the biggest in California and the nation, but at its peak it is designed to administer 12,000 doses per day. This week they are doing 2,000 doses per day as they ramp up their operation (which I understand and cut them slack for the first week or two).

There are currently 8,000 licensed pharmacies in the state of California. If each pharmacy gave out 50 shots a day, or 4 shots per hour, that would be 400,000 shots given per day in the state of California.

400,000 shots per day is about 33 (thirty three!) Dodger Stadium Supersites operating statewide. Except with easier parking and a safer environment for old folks.

I don't think the Supersites are a bad idea per se, I think they'll work fine for the Phase 2 and Phase 3 folks; the young and healthy who just want the shot. But for Phase 1A and 1B, the elderly and infirm, they don't work well. Going to your local Walgreens, CVS, or your doctor's office would be vastly easier and safer for the elderly in Phase 1A and 1B.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
You make your friendly neighborhood CVS sound like the streets of Calcutta.

So all Covid vaccination must take place outdoors? Even in New York, where it's currently 35 degrees? Or Minneapolis where it's 15 degrees? It's not safe to get vaccinated in a CVS?
I didn’t say everything must be outdoors, but there is a reason a large outdoor space next to a large indoor space was chosen as a preferred place for moving thousands of people.
Why does it matter if the LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE are in doors or outdoors? The problem I see is THERE IS LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN HOURS LONG LINES in close proximity to each other waiting for the vaccine. How is getting the vaccine going to help if someone gets it while in line to get the vaccine. Those huge tents outside Disneyland with a monster packed and steady line does not look safe at all. I can wait for it to come to CVS where I can get it and stay socially distanced at a time when the store is not so busy.
It does matter because outdoors provides more ventilation and dispersion of droplets. Large outdoor spaces provide more room for distancing. Without distancing, 10,000 SF of retail space can only hold 166 people at a time.
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
I didn’t say everything must be outdoors, but there is a reason a large outdoor space next to a large indoor space was chosen as a preferred place for moving thousands of people.

Would you perhaps allow that a CVS giving out 4 shots per hour, 12 hours per day, for a total of 50 shots per day is safe?

Because if California had followed the model the most successful states did, and just gave the vaccine out to pharmacies, the 8,000 licensed pharmacies in California could be providing 400,000 shots per day right now at 4 shots per hour. Not to mention private doctor's and dentist's offices.

If California's 8,000 pharmacies had been given this task, instead of putting the government in charge, that's 8,000 highly regulated and safe environments to distribute at least 400,000 shots per day across the state. It would take 33 Dodger Stadium Supersites to be built to equal that distribution power available right now in the private sector.

Or is it still not okay because CVS is indoors?
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
I didn’t say everything must be outdoors, but there is a reason a large outdoor space next to a large indoor space was chosen as a preferred place for moving thousands of people.

It does matter because outdoors provides more ventilation and dispersion of droplets. Large outdoor spaces provide more room for distancing. Without distancing, 10,000 SF of retail space can only hold 166 people at a time.
There is hardly any distancing in that big line at Disneyland
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
There is hardly any distancing in that big line at Disneyland

I think it's hard to photograph because the photos always take in a long range view. I'm sure people were spaced out okay, and in California you don't go out in public anywhere without a mask on. But picture this six days from now when it's 58 degrees and raining.

GettyImages-1296234046.jpg


But I agree that it's basically a giant mob of people all waiting in long lines, traipsing hundreds of yards across vast parking lots, and then walking the same long distance from the last tent all the way back to your car. But for this sweet elderly lady, it would have been so much easier and manageable and safer for her daughter to push her into the local CVS or Walgreens or dentist's office, instead of this sprawling Supersite. And again, picture it in the rain. 🌧️

And don't forget, you need to do this twice, 28 days apart! :oops:

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-06-1-1.jpg
 
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1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
I think it's hard to photograph because the photos always take in a long range view. I'm sure people were spaced out okay, and in California you don't go out in public anywhere without a mask on. But picture this six days from now when it's 58 degrees and raining.

GettyImages-1296234046.jpg


But I agree that it's basically a giant mob of people all waiting in long lines, traipsing hundreds of yards across vast parking lots, and then walking the same long distance from the last tent all the way back to your car. But for this sweet elderly lady, it would have been so much easier and manageable and safer for her daughter to push her into the local CVS or Walgreens or dentist's office, instead of this sprawling Supersite. And again, picture it in the rain.

OCR-L-VACCSITE-0114-JG-06-1-1.jpg
No one can convince me waiting in a long line like that is safer than me going to my pharmacy when its less busy and getting the shot. I See hardly any distancing there. and what good is distancing when you have a steady line moving and in a few seconds i am standing in the exact same spot as the person i was trying to stay distanced from was standing?! Social distance means to be away from the other person not follow in their immediate footsteps. That hardly seems safe.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
No one can convince me waiting in a long line like that is safer than me going to my pharmacy when its less busy and getting the shot. I See hardly any distancing there. and what good is distancing when you have a steady line moving and in a few seconds i am standing in the exact same spot as the person i was trying to stay distanced from was standing?! Social distance means to be away from the other person not follow in their immediate footsteps. That hardly seems safe.

I'm just hung up on the horrible logistics of these massive supersites, particularly for the elderly.

I simply have yet to be convinced that making an appointment for a Covid shot in a CVS or local pharmacy, as pharmacists have been medically trained to do in a highly regulated industry, is any less safe than standing among a huge crowd in the Toy Story Parking Lot for an hour waiting to get into a tent.

I got my Flu shot and a Tdap Boostrix shot this past fall at a CVS. As per usual, the pharmacist had a great bedside manner and was very gentle and talented with her needles, and the whole thing took less than 5 minutes from parking to walking back out. Plus I got coupons for $2 off toothpaste!
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Would you perhaps allow that a CVS giving out 4 shots per hour, 12 hours per day, for a total of 50 shots per day is safe?

Because if California had followed the model the most successful states did, and just gave the vaccine out to pharmacies, the 8,000 licensed pharmacies in California could be providing 400,000 shots per day right now at 4 shots per hour. Not to mention private doctor's and dentist's offices.

If California's 8,000 pharmacies had been given this task, instead of putting the government in charge, that's 8,000 highly regulated and safe environments to distribute at least 400,000 shots per day across the state. It would take 33 Dodger Stadium Supersites to be built to equal that distribution power available right now in the private sector.

Or is it still not okay because CVS is indoors?
Demand is not uniformly distributed around CVS pharmacy locations.

Also, if you’re going to make things up, make sure it is about something that cannot be easily researched.

West Virginia is using centralized sites such as community centers and schools.

Texas is using “hubs“ to distribute vaccines.

South Dakota is, as they note, rural, and utilizing hospital systems (which are considered too centralized in many rural areas) not retail stores.

CVS is under the impression that vaccines have not been available in their stores and that this process is only just starting in New York.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Demand is not uniformly distributed around CVS pharmacy locations.

I use CVS as the example of a pharmacy. There are 8,000 pharmacies in the state of California. Only 1,100 of them are CVS. Many of them are small, privately owned businesses, right out of a Normal Rockwell painting. 8,000 locations distributed widely across the state serving local populations is a mighty force to be able to harness. It's a shame Sacramento didn't tap into that for the first phase of rollout.

You'd obviously use a reservation system and 2020's tech to manage this process, just like pharmacies have you make an appointment for a Flu shot. But if California's 8,000 pharmacies had been giving out one Covid shot every 15 minutes over a 12 hour operating day, that's 400,000 Covid shots given out every day in California. Right at your friendly, local pharmacy you have been familiar with for years. With convenient parking steps from the door.

You think the Supersite system is better than that? Dodger Stadium is the largest of them all, and at its peak will give out 12,000 doses per day. Dodger Stadium Supersite's daily capacity is the equivalent of 240 pharmacies giving out 50 shots per day, among California's 8,000 pharmacies.

Also, if you’re going to make things up, make sure it is about something that cannot be easily researched.

West Virginia is using centralized sites such as community centers and schools.
Yes, and also using local pharmacies and doctor's offices. West Virginia has no city bigger than 50,000 people, with many small towns in remote mountain locations, so they knew they had to get the local pharmacies involved.

"West Virginia chose to mobilize independent and chain pharmacies alike, rather than relying just on CVS and Walgreens. Over 250 pharmacies offered to help in vaccinating people at 214 nursing homes."
Texas is using “hubs“ to distribute vaccines.

Texas has 'Vaccination Hubs", and has also distributed vaccines to pharmacies and doctor's offices. It's obviously working very well for Texas, because they are ranked #6 in the nation and as a huge state with 30 Million people, is the nearest analogy to California with 40 Million people. California is currently #49.

Now, don't get too upset, but Texas has their Vaccination Hubs indoors! o_O

OOAJK3DF4ZHKXC5BODKO4ZT6KQ.jpg


South Dakota is, as they note, rural, and utilizing hospital systems (which are considered too centralized in many rural areas) not retail stores.

Both the Dakotas used this approach, tasking local private hospital systems. The pharmacists are trained to give the shots.
 
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1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
I use CVS as the example of a pharmacy. There are 8,000 pharmacies in the state of California. Only 1,100 of them are CVS. Many of them are small, privately owned businesses, right out of a Normal Rockwell painting. 8,000 locations distributed widely across the state serving local populations is a mighty force to be able to harness. It's a shame Sacramento didn't tap into that for the first phase of rollout.

You'd obviously use a reservation system and 2020's tech to manage this process, just like pharmacies have you make an appointment for a Flu shot. But if California's 8,000 pharmacies had been giving out one Covid shot every 15 minutes over a 12 hour operating day, that's 400,000 Covid shots given out every day in California. Right at your friendly, local pharmacy you have been familiar with for years.

You think the Supersite system is better than that? Dodger Stadium is the largest of them all, and at its peak will give out 12,000 doses per day. Dodger Stadium Supersite's daily capacity is the equivalent of 240 pharmacies giving out 50 shots per day, among California's 8,000 pharmacies.


Yes, and also using local pharmacies and doctor's offices. West Virginia has no city bigger than 50,000 people, with many small towns in remote mountain locations, so they knew they had to get the local pharmacies involved.


Texas has 'Vaccination Hubs", and has also distributed vaccines to pharmacies and doctor's offices. It's obviously working very well for Texas, because they are ranked #6 in the nation and as a huge state with 30 Million people, is the nearest analogy to California with 40 Million people. California is currently #49.



Both the Dakotas used this approach, tasking local private hospital systems. The pharmacists are trained to give the shots.
This is the power of math people
 

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