News Disneyland Cancels Its Annual Pass Program - Theme Park Insider & OC Register

[mickEblu]

I think people happy about this news may be sadly disappointed, I don’t see this resulting in shorter lines, they may even get worse. Currently half the people in the park are APs, many not caring to do more than a couple rides, eat, hang out with friends, and see the fireworks, if those 35,000 APs are replaced by even 20,000 day guests who are trying to do every ride in the park the end result is going to be longer lines, and ultimately a higher percentage of frustrated guests because they paid $150 and aren’t getting to do everything they wanted.

The loss of the AP program will definitely make the restaurants and pathways less crowded but I’m worried we’ll see longer lines and more frustrated guests, even with fewer people.

That’s a good point. It may just shuffle people around a bit. Thing is they want those restaurants full. They want those stores full. I think we have to distinguish the short term response to Covid and the lower capacity they HAVE to open the parks with from the more long term solution. Long term there will absolutely be some sort of AP program again and we will likely have just as many busy days again. They ll just be better prepared to staff throughout the year as they ll know how many guests are going to the parks on a given day. We may come to find out that all days , crowded and uncrowded will feel the same to us as the parks will be staffed accordingly. Yeah the park may feel less crowded but we may have the same waits for rides, food and security during the holidays as we do on “off season” days.

I do think that they may try to avoid those insane, not good for Sacramento’s perception of them, disgustingly packed park days though.

 

[CaptinEO]

Multiple things can be true at once...

For example, I think it's true that the AP program brought in a lot of revenue and served a valuable purpose.

...and I think it's ALSO true that the AP program had problems.

Frankly, it was just too big. Free monthly financing made the barrier to entry too low, and DLR couldn't raise prices fast enough to balance demand. They did a lot of things to shift the pressure points, but the core problem remained.

I think history will show that the final nail in the AP coffin was the summer of 2019 when Star Wars flopped. A lot of things were blamed for that fiasco, most of them deservingly, but I think the most clear message was the most obvious one: People didn't come see Star Wars because they were afraid of and/or sick of the crowds.

Fairly or not, APs always got most of the blame for the crowds. So, when the expected tsunami of guests turned out to be an embarrassing trickle, the writing was on the wall. The AP program couldn't just be jostled and casually remodeled anymore. It had to be rebuilt from the ground up.

I don't know how they would've gone about it had the pandemic not happened, but I'm confident they still would have.

As someone who's experienced the parks as both a local AP and an out-of-state irregular, I'm not sad to see APs go. The issues have been obvious for a long time, and I think the resort will probably be better off with a replacement.

I agree. 2019 was the true failure of the AP tier system. It was already flawed years before, but this was the true showcase that people don't care about paying extra to visit Disneyland in summer or to see their new land and don't mind waiting.

All the SoCal, SoCal Select, and Deluxe APs had no issue whatsoever waiting til September to see the land, even when Disney offered 100 bucks to get in for AP holders, they didn't bite.

Even when Soaring Over California and Electrical Parade came back, the crowds never showed up. Was an amazing time. I used the heck out of my Flexpass and went on all sorts of weekends with zero crowds.

Heres to hoping Disney simplifies admission and stops confusing guests in the future.

 

[mickEblu]

I agree. 2019 was the true failure of the AP tier system. It was already flawed years before, but this was the true showcase that people don't care about paying extra to visit Disneyland in summer or to see their new land and don't mind waiting.

All the SoCal, SoCal Select, and Deluxe APs had no issue whatsoever waiting til September to see the land, even when Disney offered 100 bucks to get in for AP holders, they didn't bite.

Right so the question is are the ready to abandon APs and fill in the parks with vacationers / tourists? I feel that if this was possible they would have done it a long time ago. DLR is never going to be WDW. It’s not set up that way. There’s a reason they turned to and grew and the AP program in the first place. APs will be back in some form. They probably want even more APs or are at least ok with the amount they had. They just want to distribute them more evenly thought out the year. That way revenue is the same and guest experience doesn’t go to hell.

 

[CaptinEO]

Right so the question is are the ready to abandon APs and fill in the parks with vacationers / tourists? I feel that if this was possible they would have done it a long time ago. DLR is never going to be WDW. It’s not set up that way. There’s a reason they turned to and grew and the AP program in the first place. APs will be back in some form. They probably want even more APs or are at least ok with the amount they had. They just want to distribute them more evenly thought out the year. That way revenue is the same and guest experience doesn’t go to hell.

I think they will continue to have local ticket deals and discounts, but the "all you can visit mentality" practically forced people to visit 10 times or more a year to get their value, especially as prices rose.

I used to have a signature pass and until the Flex Pass was announced I was ready to let ours go because the 1000 dollar price point meant we had to visit too many times to make it worthwhile.

I've said this a million times, if Disney prices their tickets accordingly, there's no need to have to sell admission in bulk.

On Christmas they can sell tickets for 150 bucks all day. On a random wednesday in October? It should be 80 dollars.

They shot themselves in the foot by relying on bulk admission to make money.

 

[mickEblu]

I think they will continue to have local ticket deals and discounts, but the "all you can visit mentality" practically forced people to visit 10 times or more a year to get their value, especially as prices rose.

I used to have a signature pass and until the Flex Pass was announced I was ready to let ours go because the 1000 dollar price point meant we had to visit too many times to make it worthwhile.

There you have it. The Flex pass kept you around. They ll have a pass that seems just about right for everyone’s needs. They ll probably end up even having more APs due to the pent up demand.

 

[CaptinEO]

There you have it. The Flex pass kept you around. They ll have a pass that seems just about right for everyone’s needs. They ll probably end up even having more APs due to the pent up demand.

It did in my case but it was really silly as my friends who kept their deluxe ( which cost 200 more than my Flex ) had to wait 3 months to see Star Wars Land.

The whole tier system was confusing.

 

[CaptinEO]

There you have it. The Flex pass kept you around. They ll have a pass that seems just about right for everyone’s needs. They ll probably end up even having more APs due to the pent up demand.

I think they don't need to take away APs, but they have to entirely redo the program.

How were they supposed to tell Signature Plus owners who paid 1200 for their pass that they have to reserve admission days (post covid), just like the Flex Pass that cost half the price?

 

[mickEblu]

It did in my case but it was really silly as my friends who kept their deluxe ( which cost 200 more than my Flex ) had to wait 3 months to see Star Wars Land.

The whole tier system was confusing.

The value on the FLEX was incredible. I knew that I happened to get in on a pilot year and it wasn’t going to be a long term thing. They were baiting everyone in with that value until virtually everyone but vloggers or people gung ho on not having restrictions moved over to FLEX. Then they were just going to break the Flex down into further tiers, of course decreasing the value of the original flex since but since everyone would have bought into the system by then it wouldn’t be an issue for them. I’m guessing when new flex pass with similar blackouts and advanced reservations is unveiled it will be at least $300 more.

 

[mickEblu]

I think they don't need to take away APs, but they have to entirely redo the program.

How were they supposed to tell Signature Plus owners who paid 1200 for their pass that they have to reserve admission days (post covid), just like the Flex Pass that cost half the price?

They had to do this and it’s the perfect excuse to bail on all those grandfathered perks people have.


In regards to my last few posts, I’m not talking about the short term solution I’m speaking of what the AP program will look like when it comes back

 

[Figments Friend]

It's a 'clean slate' now.

Let's see what Disney writes on the chalkboard.


-

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

If the goal is actually to cut down the AP program to a more manageable yet $productive$ size, while encouraging tourists due to the reduction of AP's, it seems to me the simplest method is to have two passes - paid in full, no monthly payments - $750 Flex Pass (reservations, no parking) and $1500 Signature Pass (2 week Christmas blockouts only, no reservations, with parking). Anyone who wants to come during the busiest two weeks of the holidays pays for a regular ticket.

This cuts down the number of people with passes, controls reservations more, and/or bumps people to higher pass levels than they were previously paying. The elimination of some passholders as a result benefits the tourists, while the raising to higher pass levels benefits Disney.

And while higher priced, if you go at least 10 days in the year, you've still earned out the passes. And plenty/most AP's go a lot more often than that.

Win win.

 

[waltography]

The value on the FLEX was incredible. I knew that I happened to get in on a pilot year and it wasn’t going to be a long term thing. They were baiting everyone in with that value until virtually everyone but vloggers or people gung ho on not having restrictions moved over to FLEX. Then they were just going to break the Flex down into further tiers, of course decreasing the value of the original flex since but since everyone would have bought into the system by then it wouldn’t be an issue for them. I’m guessing when new flex pass with similar blackouts and advanced reservations is unveiled it will be at least $300 more.

I really couldn't sing my praises enough for the Flex AP. It worked for me since I still went to college up north but often would fly down for breaks and odd weekends, and I'm a huge Type A person that likes things planned ahead of time.

Same goes for MaxPass when it was first introduced for $10. It felt like a steal for the value it gave (especially since relatively few people were using it then, which meant we really never ran out of Fastpasses until 7pm).

 

[CaptinEO]

The value on the FLEX was incredible. I knew that I happened to get in on a pilot year and it wasn’t going to be a long term thing. They were baiting everyone in with that value until virtually everyone but vloggers or people gung ho on not having restrictions moved over to FLEX. Then they were just going to break the Flex down into further tiers, of course decreasing the value of the original flex since but since everyone would have bought into the system by then it wouldn’t be an issue for them. I’m guessing when new flex pass with similar blackouts and advanced reservations is unveiled it will be at least $300 more.

I agree too! We renewed right when it was introduced and it was a huge risk as we had no idea if we could even get reservations the days we wanted.

My feeling was the same as yours, during its initial adoption period, hopefully no one would be using it. Luckily it ended up being amazing as we could always get the days we wanted and the one weekend we stayed over the holiday period I just made sure I was on my phone first thing at 7am 2 weeks out.

 

[mickEblu]

I agree too! We renewed right when it was introduced and it was a huge risk as we had no idea if we could even get reservations the days we wanted.

My feeling was the same as yours, during its initial adoption period, hopefully no one would be using it. Luckily it ended up being amazing as we could always get the days we wanted and the one weekend we stayed over the holiday period I just made sure I was on my phone first thing at 7am 2 weeks out.

Yeah we got lucky the timing worked out the year we had it. We pretty much always got the reservations we wanted except for maybe once or twice where I dropped the ball and didn’t book a weekend day early enough. One time we got there on A Sunday morning only to realize I had forgotten to make the reservation. Luckily it wasn’t booked and I made the reservation on the spot outside the monorail station at DTD.

 

[CaptinEO]

They had to do this and it’s the perfect excuse to bail on all those grandfathered perks people have.


In regards to my last few posts, I’m not talking about the short term solution I’m speaking of what the AP program will look like when it comes back

It definitely is the perfect excuse. My Flex Pass plus parking add on will always live on in my heart.

 

[CaptinEO]

Yeah we got lucky the timing worked out the year we had it. We pretty much always got the reservations we wanted except for maybe once or twice where I dropped the ball and didn’t book a weekend day early enough. One time we got there on A Sunday morning only to realize I had forgotten to make the reservation. Luckily it wasn’t booked and I made the reservation on the spot outside the monorail station at DTD.

Glad it worked out for you most of the time! That's so scary about arriving without having made the reservation! Glad you were able to get one last minute.

 

[mickEblu]

Glad it worked out for you most of the time! That's so scary about arriving without having made the reservation! Glad you were able to get one last minute.

Thanks! The wife was definitely ed for about 30 seconds!

 

[Sailor310]

Thanks! The wife was definitely ****ed for about 30 seconds!

I did the same thing at least once.

 

[TP2000]

I don't know how they would've gone about it had the pandemic not happened, but I'm confident they still would have.

I agree, the AP problems were only getting worse each year, not better.

The Covid closure gives them plenty of cover, and prevents them from having to buy the Guest Relations CM's bulletproof plaid vests when TDA broke the news.

Seriously, can you imagine the human drama that would be playing out daily inside City Hall's Guest Relations office every day had the parks been open when they announced this? There'd be a line out the door with thousands of Karens demanding to speak to "the manager!".

Because the Dockers-clad manager making 70K a year as a customer service supervisor is the one who decides and designs major financial and business decisions for a $10 Billion per year business.

 

[Zorro]

I agree, the AP problems were only getting worse each year, not better.

The Covid closure gives them plenty of cover, and prevents them from having to buy the Guest Relations CM's bulletproof plaid vests when TDA broke the news.

Seriously, can you imagine the human drama that would be playing out daily inside City Hall's Guest Relations office every day had the parks been open when they announced this? There'd be a line out the door with thousands of Karens demanding to speak to "the manager!".

Because the Dockers-clad manager making 70K a year as a customer service supervisor is the one who decides and designs major financial and business decisions for a $10 Billion per year business.

Imagine? We should already know given how the Karens responded to the changes in the disability access and stroller/wagon policies. True, the reaction here would have been more intense. Instead of storming the Bastille it would have been the storming of the Main Street City Hall.