News Disneyland Cancels Its Annual Pass Program - Theme Park Insider & OC Register

[unmitigated disaster]

I wandered over to a different Disney board and they were all melting down and "how DARE they say APs don't spend money/go too much/etc."

I agree, the AP problems were only getting worse each year, not better.

The Covid closure gives them plenty of cover, and prevents them from having to buy the Guest Relations CM's bulletproof plaid vests when TDA broke the news.

Seriously, can you imagine the human drama that would be playing out daily inside City Hall's Guest Relations office every day had the parks been open when they announced this? There'd be a line out the door with thousands of Karens demanding to speak to "the manager!".

Because the Dockers-clad manager making 70K a year as a customer service supervisor is the one who decides and designs major financial and business decisions for a $10 Billion per year business.

I wonder when they would have announced it had not Covid happened.

As to your last sentence, I once got yelled at by a guest because of the weather. " We came here for the sun and it's raining. What are you going to do about it!?" (I stared, then said "nothing. I can't control the weather, ma'am". She stomped off to complain to management who basically gave her the same answer.) A Karen's gonna Karen. I bet the Disneyland/AP 800 number has angry Karens melting the phone lines.

 

[el_super]

I agree. 2019 was the true failure of the AP tier system. It was already flawed years before, but this was the true showcase that people don't care about paying extra to visit Disneyland in summer or to see their new land and don't mind waiting.

But people did pay extra to go see it... attendance was flat, but revenue was WAY up. They made more money with fewer people in the park. That's the big red flag here: they were systemically undervaluing their product, based on models justifying the creation of a product (the Annual Passes) that is 30+ years old.

What the pandemic has really done, is given everyone a year long break from Disneyland. That means the value of a visit has skyrocketed. People will be willing to pay a lot more for a single visit now, then they would have coming off a year of having an Annual Pass. It makes sense to capitalize on that. I would assume that no form of discount program will be in effect when the park finally does reopen, and everyone will be willing to pay $100+ to finally go spend a few hours in their "happy place."

 

[el_super]

I wonder when they would have announced it had not Covid happened.

To be honest, I don't think they would have. I think the best case for "changes" in a non-COVID world would have been a slow burn off over years. Making certain passes unavailable for new purchases, like they did with the So Cal Pass. Offering to allow current passholders the option to keep renewing with their current benefits over the course of 5 to 10 years. Slowing introducing more options to the Flex passes.

 

[CaptinEO]

But people did pay extra to go see it... attendance was flat, but revenue was WAY up. They made more money with fewer people in the park. That's the big red flag here: they were systemically undervaluing their product, based on models justifying the creation of a product (the Annual Passes) that is 30+ years old.

What the pandemic has really done, is given everyone a year long break from Disneyland. That means the value of a visit has skyrocketed. People will be willing to pay a lot more for a single visit now, then they would have coming off a year of having an Annual Pass. It makes sense to capitalize on that. I would assume that no form of discount program will be in effect when the park finally does reopen, and everyone will be willing to pay $100+ to finally go spend a few hours in their "happy place."

Their revenue did increase due to merchandise sales. But it was supposed to be way higher. The parks were supposed to be packed with people dying to get into the new land. Boarding groups were implemented, etc.

The whole handling of Galaxy's Edge was botched. The results were not even close to the years of expectations and talk of bathroom passes, 8 hour lines etc.

Everything was a walk on the entire summer and it was amazing.

 

[el_super]

Their revenue did increase due to merchandise sales. But it was supposed to be way higher. The parks were supposed to be packed with people dying to get into the new land. Boarding groups were implemented, etc.

Yeah but... Don't confuse the fear of overcrowding with the success criteria. They were absolutely afraid it would be packed and took a lot of actions to make sure it wasn't, like the boarding passes and reservations you noted. The crowding situation isn't a fair way to gauge the success of Star Wars Land, since it was overly complicated by the AP situation here at DLR.

That we are, 12 months past the opening of Rise of the Resistance, and discussing the discontinuation of Annual Passes, proves that they are still pretty confident in their product.

So is it fair to say that the park being empty in 2019 was the result of the complexities of the AP program and not Star Wars? Absolutely.

 

[CaptinEO]

Yeah but... Don't confuse the fear of overcrowding with the success criteria. They were absolutely afraid it would be packed and took a lot of actions to make sure it wasn't, like the boarding passes and reservations you noted. The crowding situation isn't a fair way to gauge the success of Star Wars Land, since it was overly complicated by the AP situation here at DLR.

That we are, 12 months past the opening of Rise of the Resistance, and discussing the discontinuation of Annual Passes, proves that they are still pretty confident in their product.

So is it fair to say that the park being empty in 2019 was the result of the complexities of the AP program and not Star Wars? Absolutely.

The fear was definitely a huge part, you are right. Either way they bungled both the marketing and the pricing for the park that summer. What a great time to be a Disneyland fan.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

So is it fair to say that the park being empty in 2019 was the result of the complexities of the AP program and not Star Wars? Absolutely.

I’ve seen a few references to the summer of 2019 being a reason they chose to remove the APs but I don’t understand this logic, weren’t most APs blacked out because they were expecting massive crowds for Galaxy’s Edge?

I think the summer of 2019 showed that the parks need APs to pull in the crowds, even with the addition of a brand new land attendance struggled without APs.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The launch of Galaxy's Edge struck me as odd.

They were airing commercials the day of saying "now open", but neglecting to mention it was by reservation only and already sold out. I wondered how many non-locals booked or made a trip to see the new land only to find themselves shut out?

In any case, it goes to show why a flex passport approach makes sense for Disneyland. Encourage the out of town visitors who are hesitant to go knowing how crowded the parks have become, with a promise of manageable crowds, and then offer up discounted admission to the locals as crowd levels warrant.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I’ve seen a few references to the summer of 2019 being a reason they chose to remove the APs but I don’t understand this logic, weren’t most APs blacked out because they were expecting massive crowds for Galaxy’s Edge?

I think the summer of 2019 showed that the parks need APs to pull in the crowds, even with the addition of a brand new land attendance struggled without APs.

I think the basis of the 2019 hypothesis is the soft response to the launch of SWGE likely gave resort management a reality check that Disneyland was suffering from a reputation for constantly being overcrowded, and that perception was directly responsible for the negative impact on traffic that summer. And what was the root cause of the constant crowding at Disneyland? An out of control annual pass program.

I bet it was quite eye-opening for them to see spending rise that summer even though most APs were blocked and attendance was flat. Wow, people actually spend more in shops and restaurants when it's less crowded? Imagine that!

 

[chadwpalm]

I think the basis of the 2019 hypothesis is the soft response to the launch of SWGE likely gave resort management a reality check that Disneyland was suffering from a reputation for constantly being overcrowded, and that perception was directly responsible for the negative impact on traffic that summer. And what was the root cause of the constant crowding at Disneyland? An out of control annual pass program.

I bet it was quite eye-opening for them to see spending rise that summer even though most APs were blocked and attendance was flat. Wow, people actually spend more in shops and restaurants when it's less crowded? Imagine that!

Absolutely. I'd bet if you searched hard enough you'd find many people on this board just a couple of months before Galaxy's Edge opening state that they will probably wait at least a year to go because they expected the crowds to be so huge and the lines so long.

It was the stigma of overcrowding that Disney built up for 10 years that ultimately shot them in the foot that summer. A stigma that has given rise to businesses like Touring Plans where crowd calendars and pre-planning your visit starting to become the norm for vacationers.

Were APs to blame? Let me ask ya'll this. Have you ever tried to go to Disneyland during the first week passes opened back up at the end of summer? Or the first week Halloween or Christmas decorations were up? It had gotten to a point where I had to use a crowd calendar myself and plan my vacations during the summer (what USED to be the busy time) instead of Sept.-Dec. or during the Spring Break season. Either that or go in January or February.

I dunno if hard-core planning will be a thing of the past, but it definitely was getting more and more difficult as a vacationer to plan trips over the past 6 years.

 

[el_super]

It was the stigma of overcrowding that Disney built up for 10 years that ultimately shot them in the foot that summer.

I am going to go the opposite route here and say, it wasn't the stigma of overcrowding that changed. For all the complaints, OVER YEARS, that the park was overcrowded it was still crowded. It was never really a problem because it didn't result in any perceivable reduction in crowds. In fact, it seemed to act almost like a chain reaction, precipitating additional crowding.

So to Disney, there was no discernable reason to reduce the crowds. At least not from a guest service standpoint.

I also don't think the threat of crowds would have kept most of the AP crowd away. By 2019, they were accustomed to the crowds and continued to renew their passes. I think there was still a core group of APs that were just going to hang out (take up a whole section of Pizza Port) and they wouldn't have cared how long the lines were.

I think the more likely scenario is, that with the reduction in crowds over the summer of 2019, their guest satisfaction numbers started to climb, and they started to see a positive trend toward that all so important "intent to return" number among some of their top spending demographics. The park wasn't crowded, the offerings were strong and people LOVED the experience. It wasn't reinforcement from the negative "it's too crowded" but from the positive "wow this place is great" that really swayed their opinion here.

Disneyland could have continued on for years at the crowd levels we saw in 2018 and made a lot of money for doing so. Ditching the AP program is incredibly risky for them, since it could potentially be a pretty public embarrassment. In fact, if this poll is any indication, they may have some work still to go to convince people it was the right call. They would only take on the risk, if they felt that the reward was worth it. They have the potential to make more money, and expand their revenue this way.

 

[CaptinEO]

I think the basis of the 2019 hypothesis is the soft response to the launch of SWGE likely gave resort management a reality check that Disneyland was suffering from a reputation for constantly being overcrowded, and that perception was directly responsible for the negative impact on traffic that summer. And what was the root cause of the constant crowding at Disneyland? An out of control annual pass program.

I bet it was quite eye-opening for them to see spending rise that summer even though most APs were blocked and attendance was flat. Wow, people actually spend more in shops and restaurants when it's less crowded? Imagine that!

This is the truth. I remember coworkers with children telling me they won't even visit Disneyland until a year after Star Wars due to how crowded it's gonna be.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I think the more likely scenario is, that with the reduction in crowds over the summer of 2019, their guest satisfaction numbers started to climb, and they started to see a positive trend toward that all so important "intent to return" number among some of their top spending demographics. The park wasn't crowded, the offerings were strong and people LOVED the experience. It wasn't reinforcement from the negative "it's too crowded" but from the positive "wow this place is great" that really swayed their opinion here.

I can see this being a factor in the decision, and it generally jives with how I would envision any reasonable management team overseeing what is largely a hospitality business.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that another bullet point on the list was the unbridled fanaticism that evolved from a segment of the AP audience. I just can't imagine a world where Disney allows its most influential fans to be unofficial online spokespeople forever.

 

[el_super]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that another bullet point on the list was the unbridled fanaticism that evolved from a segment of the AP audience. I just can't imagine a world where Disney allows its most influential fans to be unofficial online spokespeople forever.

I think there's a very very small subset of people who ever speak negatively about the park online.

Most of that unbridled fanaticism worked in their favor really. The AP crowd with the free advertising magnets plastered all over So Cal cars. The bloggers and vloggers uploading hours of content to YouTube. The whole Gay Days / Dapper Days / Star Wars Day events that got a lot of Facebook and Twitter coverage and of course Instagram. Disneyland was the most Instagram'd place on earth. Companies would pay for that kind of ground level marketing.

It may not feel like it, but Disney was making money on all of this. They sold convention space to the Dapper Days folks, they sold more food offerings to the Instagram crowd and they kept encouraging more and more people to sign up for/renew their Annual Passes. Yeah the culture started to get a little weird with the pin traders and the social clubs, but even then, it added to the mystique of it. People wanted to take part in, or at least gawk at, the weird sub cultures of Disneyland. I just don't see how any of these were really a negative for them. They could have kept on with this model for many more years to come.

The biggest downside though is, once the park hit max capacity, they wouldn't be able to show year over year growth. They hit the glass ceiling. They spent money on expanding the park and making it accommodate more crowds, and only then seemingly realized that the model itself wasn't sustainable any longer.

But everything outlined above: Disneyland still needs those things to happen. They still need the free marketing, the convention crowds, the weird sub cultures. I would guess that whatever ends up replacing the AP program, will still have all those goals in mind. Much to our disappointment.

 

[TP2000]

Let's be honest and also acknowledge the actual product contained in Star Wars Land was not a huge draw. Certainly not the draw they had planned and hoped for.

Target Run was cute, but also a tad underwhelming. Rise Before Dawn was technically impressive, but could never live up to the immense hype that Disney has no one but themselves to blame for. The rest of the land felt dead and lifeless, and poor Ky'le From Tustin couldn't carry that dead weight no matter how hard he tried to get into character at his snack bar shifts.

If Star Wars Land had the comparable draw that Cars Land did seven years earlier, it would have overcome whatever messy marketing message (Is it by reservations only??? Or should we go there Ahora!???) they saddled it with.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I think there's a very very small subset of people who ever speak negatively about the park online.

Overall I never saw this as a smart or sustainable business strategy. As a whole v-loggers and fan sites are extremely influential. It's a community that is amplifying Disneyland as a destination primarily for AP fans living in the region. I applaud the groups for filling the gap for online engagement that Disney has ignored, but it's past time for Disney to manage its most loyal customers for the sake of everyone else's enjoyment.

Most of that unbridled fanaticism worked in their favor really. The AP crowd with the free advertising magnets plastered all over So Cal cars. The bloggers and vloggers uploading hours of content to YouTube. The whole Gay Days / Dapper Days / Star Wars Day events that got a lot of Facebook and Twitter coverage and of course Instagram. Disneyland was the most Instagram'd place on earth. Companies would pay for that kind of ground level marketing.

Absolutely agree. I'm not saying most of these communities shouldn't exist and thrive. I'm also not suggesting that sharing on social media should be limited somehow. I'm saying Disneyland ought to put some controls in place and manage the communities better. Perhaps arranging official partnerships with those that are beneficial to the business and customers ( Touring Plans?) and distancing or limiting access to those that are not (organized gangs?). As I said before killing the AP program is a step in the right direction.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

It may not feel like it, but Disney was making money on all of this. They sold convention space to the Dapper Days folks, they sold more food offerings to the Instagram crowd and they kept encouraging more and more people to sign up for/renew their Annual Passes. Yeah the culture started to get a little weird with the pin traders and the social clubs, but even then, it added to the mystique of it. People wanted to take part in, or at least gawk at, the weird sub cultures of Disneyland. I just don't see how any of these were really a negative for them. They could have kept on with this model for many more years to come.

Except pin trading pre-dated social media by several years and the first Dapper Day by more than a decade and the first social clubs by more than that. It's been going on at the parks for over twenty years and really isn't comparable to the 'craze of the year' sub-cultures. Other than ear hats (which seem to have gone largely the way of the dodo in favor of headbands) and Disney dollars (also gone), I can't think of anything that has sustained the way pin trading has at the parks. It's not 'the culture getting a little weird' - it's just the culture. And fun for the tourists as well.

And Disney is very smart to sustain it since as noted, there is no other consistent money-maker like it that can count decades of popularity as a collectible and as an experience to be had in person at the parks.

Antenna toppers, vinylmations, tsum tsums (and soon: Wishables, Nuimo's and whatever the next craze of the year is) - all passed in their popularity. As will Dooneys, Harveys, Loungeflys, spirit jerseys and plastic popcorn buckets. They have their time and then they're gone. Pins remain - 21 years and counting.

Sub-cultures would be like the social clubs mentioned, Dapper and Bats and Tiki groups, and the various fandoms within the park for performers, shows, characters, etc. Those come and go and do provide a spectacle to tourists wondering why random girls are squealing at the third dancer on the left in the parade or getting extra attention from Rapunzel. lol

#partoftheculture and #partofthesubculture and #gratefulforitall

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I bet it was quite eye-opening for them to see spending rise that summer even though most APs were blocked and attendance was flat. Wow, people actually spend more in shops and restaurants when it's less crowded? Imagine that!

I wonder how eye opening it was? When admission to limited to only people who can afford $130+ for a day ticket and APs who can afford to spend over $1200 a year on their APs per person spending is bound to go up.

I enjoyed the lower crowds last summer with my signature pass but it kind of circles back to the ”is Disneyland meant only for the rich?” argument.

With how quickly passes were going up we were wondering how long before we reached our breaking point anyway, now we don’t have to wonder what that point is anymore. 2 APs was equal to a week at WDW, including hotel, airfare, and park tickets, or half the cost of a 2 week long trip to Europe including a few days in DL Paris... Disney will still get a good portion of our “fun” money, it’s just a matter of whether DL will get it, or whether it’ll go to WDW, DL Paris, or Tokyo DL (next on our park list).

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

For all the complaints, OVER YEARS, that the park was overcrowded it was still crowded. It was never really a problem because it didn't result in any perceivable reduction in crowds. In fact, it seemed to act almost like a chain reaction, precipitating additional crowding.

Similar to the outcry every time they raise prices, cut a show, or cancel a project... everyone claims it isn‘t worth it anymore yet the crowds keep going up. My first pass in 2013 was $450, the equivalent pass last year (2019) was $1150... for all the complaining about prices, quality, and how busy it is numbers keep going up.