Disneyland and Disney World lay off 28,000 employees amid pandemic struggles - OCR/SCNG

[TheRustyScupper]

Disneyland and Disney World lay off 28,000 employees amid pandemic struggles

Disney parks boss Josh D’Amaro announced the layoffs on Tuesday, Sept. 29 in a statement and a letter to cast members, Disney parlance for employees.

www.ocregister.com

>>Disney will lay off 28,000 employees at Disneyland and Walt Disney World as the company continues to struggle with the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic and the six-month closure of its Anaheim theme parks.

1) The ONLY good thing about these layoffs is that many, many lousy mangers have been let go.
2) Hopefully WDW will see they were never required in such a quantity.
. . . WDW is so overloaded and bloated with inept managers and management.
. . . It would be nice if, after COVID, they cut the management roles significantly.
. . . No company needs ewmployee-to-manager ratios of 3:1 or 4:1.
3) WDW has not trained managers in at least fifteen (15) years.
4) They used to go through several 4-0day seminars on managing.
5) Now, there are two sessions
. . . One for company policies.
. . . One for union contract and rules.
6) NOTHING on how to actually be a manager of people.
7) Thirty-Five years ago, I sent many of my plan managers and senior managers to the Disney Institute's "The Disney Way".
. . . This was a cram-packed seminar on management technique and how to treat people, let alone guests/customers.
. . . I still had the student book and trainer's workbook.
. . . I gave it to a WDW Vice President and asked why they stopped such training.
. . . His reply wa that he was going to retire, because mismanagement had gotten to Critical Mass.
. . . It was impossible to go back and re-train managers how to manage.
. . . Yep, four months later there was a public announcement that he was retiring.
. . . He now runs a consulting company PROPERLY training personnel and managers.

 

[flutas]

7) Thirty-Five years ago, I sent many of my plan managers and senior managers to the Disney Institute's "The Disney Way".
. . . This was a cram-packed seminar on management technique and how to treat people, let alone guests/customers.
. . . I still had the student book and trainer's workbook.
. . . I gave it to a WDW Vice President and asked why they stopped such training.
. . . His reply wa that he was going to retire, because mismanagement had gotten to Critical Mass.
. . . It was impossible to go back and re-train managers how to manage.
. . . Yep, four months later there was a public announcement that he was retiring.
. . . He now runs a consulting company PROPERLY training personnel and managers.

I do know they still run these they've just been broken up into smaller lessons, even in the days of COVID (they've simply gone online).

Example names (since I've never looked into them further). I should note, that they all are still under the "Disney Institute" branding as well.

Disney's Approach to Brand Loyalty
Disney's Approach to Quality Service
Disney's Approach to Business Excellence
Disney's Approach to Leadership Excellence
Disney's Approach to People Management
Disney's Approach to Inspiring Creativity
Disney's Approach to Leadership Excellence
Disney's Approach to People Management
Disney's Approach to Leading Through Turbulent Times

 

[TP2000]

The dollar amount isn't the important part, and the fact that you're focusing so much on it, shows that you are not really committed to this idea of keeping talent and experience. Hence the reason I believe your concern was disingenuous.

If you look at this at a purely market driven perspective, as I would guess you would prefer, then nothing has changed: Disneyland still has to compete for labor and at some point when they reopen, they will be just as competitive as they were before. Those CMs who always had the option of working at Trader Joes, In-N-Out or the TSA, will also have the option of returning to Disneyland when it reopens. If the particulars of their decision making when they walked into casting originally, led them to believe Disneyland was the better choice, what exactly would be different the second time? What makes you so concerned for the lost of talent?

I offered a dollar amount for every entry-level department at Disneyland. You seem unable, or unwilling (but more likely unable) to do that. Which is interesting for someone who claims Disneyland should pay a Living Wage! to CM's, but then can't define what that wage is exactly.

If you can't put a dollar amount on it like I did with a few moments thought, why are you even mentioning it?

That said, when I speak of losing tenure and experience, I think not so much of the burger flippers at Tomorrowland Terrace or the 19 year old girl pulling down on the lap bar at Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, so much as I think of the more involved and complicated roles throughout the Disneyland Resort.

Let's take Fantasmic!, shall we?

Fantasmic! is the epitome of a Disneyland experience. It's involved, complicated, sophisticated, and very, very specific.

The 19 year old kids working as crowd control ushers are who most of us interact with.

But then there is all of the highly trained and very talented people who actually create and perform the show for us.

The lighting techs up in the light towers. The sound technicians up in the control booth above the Disney Gallery. The dancers and performers on the island. The guys who drive the Columbia and the Mark Twain for the show. The guys who pilot the rafts and boats for the show, narrowly missing the shoreline yet absolutely nailing their landing on the island at the exact second it requires to get all the pirates off the Columbia to change and become Chimney Sweeps on the Mark Twain about 7 minutes later. The pyrotechnic technicians who load and monitor the twice-nightly ignition. The costume mistresses. The wig and makeup staff. The show directors. The stuntmen. Etc., etc.

All of those roles, and none of them are actually starring roles but they all add up to make a stellar show, are required to create the quintessentially Disneyland experience of Fantasmic!

And you think you can just snap your fingers next June and get them all back for twice-nightly performances next July? My hunch is that TDA can't, and won't, be able to recreate that decades-long talent pool after they put all those folks out of work for 15 or 18 months.

You can get a gaggle of crowd control ushers to shout "Stay To Your Right!" quite easily. But trying to remount a massive and complex show like Fantasmic! after most of the staff has been laid off and left the state? TDA is going to have a very tough road to travel in 2021 and 2022 to try and regain all of that Disneyland experience.

Do you think this sort of thing just takes a few keystrokes by some outsourced guy in Bangalore? Because I don't.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

I too am trying to figure out this supposed 'gotcha' that he is trying to stick to. It's obvious from his responses that he is upset about something you said, and is stuck on it without wanting to actually discuss anything meaningful. I think the only response he wants to hear is your undying pledge to support a universal income.

One thing I thought of TP while reading your posts is the concept of pool experience. That while entry level positions will always be just that, there is often a mutual inherent group experience that is garnered through the years that gets passed on. Entry level employees may not be trained for much, but for example may know that if so and so ride starts doing this more than twice, it's likely going to break down soon so be prepared etc... And will pass that along to their peers and so forth. Over time, little things like that add up.

 

[TP2000]

One thing I thought of TP while reading your posts is the concept of pool experience. That while entry level positions will always be just that, there is often a mutual inherent group experience that is garnered through the years that gets passed on. Entry level employees may not be trained for much, but for example may know that if so and so ride starts doing this more than twice, it's likely going to break down soon so be prepared etc... And will pass that along to their peers and so forth. Over time, little things like that add up.

Yes, exactly. There's nuance and expertise involved in all work.

Even the crummy food they serve at Tomorrowland Terrace requires talent and tenure to pull off. If they staffed that place entirely with 17 year old kids with only a few months of experience, it would be an even more miserable dining experience than it already is! There's got to be some CM's back in that kitchen who have been there for a couple years, who got knowledge passed down to them from previous experienced CM's, and so on.

Then you get to really involved stuff like the Fantasmic! example I used above. It's not going to be impossible to remount and bring back Fantasmic! next fall, but with so much tenure and experience likely erased from the talent pool in Anaheim, it's going to be very, very difficult for them.

I just think it's going to be costly and complicated to reopen Disneyland after a year of full closure, and the end result we get when the parks reopen in late 2021 or 2022 is going to be noticeably inferior to what we had in February, 2020.

 

[el_super]

If you can't put a dollar amount on it like I did with a few moments thought, why are you even mentioning it?

You're trying to make this a discussion about a living wage. That's not what this is. This is a discussion over the inconsistencies in your statements, between your appeal to sympathy for Cast Members, to you continued insistence that they aren't worth all that much. My statements regarding your position on a living wage have been confirmed by your later comments on the matter.

That said, when I speak of losing tenure and experience, I think not so much of the burger flippers at Tomorrowland Terrace or the 19 year old girl pulling down on the lap bar at Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, so much as I think of the more involved and complicated roles throughout the Disneyland Resort.

Parks and Resorts, prior to the layoffs, employed 155,000 people. The layoffs, to date, have impacted about 32,000 people. That's approximately 20%. Of that 20%, the majority of them at Disneyland, about 9,000, were in those low wage burger flipping jobs that you seem to not believe have much value.

And you think you can just snap your fingers next June and get them all back for twice-nightly performances next July? My hunch is that TDA can't, and won't, be able to recreate that decades-long talent pool after they put all those folks out of work for 15 or 18 months.

Why would you think they couldn't? Maybe if some of them find different work, they may be hesitant to return to Disneyland, but Disney can (and should) offer higher wages to lure them back. If their talent and experience are so vital, Disney would be wise to offer them a competitive rate.

What you seem to be missing here is, Disneyland already existed in a competitive labor market, and will do so again when it reopens. Disneyland already had to offer a fair wage to entice potential workers, and will have to do so again. The rules of the game haven't changed. The only downside to Disney may be having to offer more in wages to reach the employment numbers they previously had.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Dude, you're just blabbing out veiled attacks at TP saying he doesn't value people. You keep saying he doesn't value them when he has constantly stated he does. Yet you keep insisting he doesn't and then saying disney should pay employees more because he hates people? I can't figure it why you're angy but it's sad.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

What differentiates a hotdog cart worker in Hollywood vs a hotdog cart Cast Member in Disneyland?

So the expectations for a hot dog cast member at Disneyland are no different than any random street vendor in the so-called real world? If the Disney Parks management team has this same point of view then its no wonder their experience standards are so low these days.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

If you expect a "magical" experience from a
hot dog salesman (yes even one in Disneyland) your expectations are too high.

And here I am expecting more because of the magical prices Disney charges for everything and the resort's legacy for experience excellence. Silly me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I mean the most bones they may throw is a GE hot dog salesman who invented his own Star Wars name and lore and can tell you all about it.

That’s not the only way a basic service can be distinguished. Compare a Chick-Fil-A or In-N-Out Burger to many other fast food chains. Part of what sets them apart is their higher and consistent service standards. A hot dog vendor is no different in being a position that could offer a good level of service and a higher level of service has long been considered a distinguishing characteristic of the Disney theme park experience.

 

[TP2000]

Why would you think they couldn't? Maybe if some of them find different work, they may be hesitant to return to Disneyland, but Disney can (and should) offer higher wages to lure them back. If their talent and experience are so vital, Disney would be wise to offer them a competitive rate.

Using my Fantasmic! analogy again, I think the problem with your thinking on this issue is that most of those roles were union. The payscales are locked into place via contracts that stretch for three to five years. If they want the boat drivers back to drive the Columbia for Fantasmic!, they can't lure them back by offering to pay them $21 an hour in 2021 when they were making $18 an hour in 2019 and their union contract still says they make $18 an hour, especially if they just lost the decade of seniority by being laid off a year ago.

The vast majority of hourly CM's at Disneyland belong to unions. You can't lure in people into a union job by offering to pay more money than their legal contract says they should get and that the union agreed to.

At least that's how I remember unions working from my early working days as a Teamster. I can't imagine the concept and legality of union contracts has changed that much. Has it?

Dude, you're just blabbing out veiled attacks at TP saying he doesn't value people. You keep saying he doesn't value them when he has constantly stated he does. Yet you keep insisting he doesn't and then saying disney should pay employees more because he hates people? I can't figure it why you're angy but it's sad.

I can't figure it out either. I seem to have entered into the crosshairs by daring to call the entry-level jobs like burger flipping and bathroom cleaning "entry-level". Or describing the work as "unskilled" because it does not require advance schooling or training; a 17 year old kid with a C+ average at Anaheim High can walk in off Ball Road to apply and a week later he's flipping burgers at Tomorrowland Terrace.

For the record, I think that type of kid is great! I'd rather that kid be working at Disneyland than loafing around his parents basement playing video games and vaping marijuana.

Using the phrase "entry-level" or "unskilled" is not demeaning, at least in my brain. It's simply calling the thing what it is; an entry-level job.

I suppose we could use all sorts of much more stylish HR words to describe what they do. But when you are a teenager flipping burgers at Tomorrowland Terrace, you are a burger flipper. Or do we not hurt someone's feelings by calling it a Food Service Technician instead?

 

[TP2000]

I mean I'm pretty sure everyone here has at one point worked an entry level job. We didn't need to be praised constantly that we were magical.

Ha! I love that!

But... every role is a starring role! I'm the star of the show when I sell churros in Pixar Pier! I'm a star! HR said so!

I think of the jobs I had when I was a young buck. I was a gardener at a college (glorified sprinkler operator and shrubbery hacker), a furniture mover, a burger flipper at two different burger stands, a cargo truck loader.

All those kind of entery-level jobs builds character and teaches important life lessons to teenagers, especially the teenage boys who need structure and supervision in their life or else they get into trouble quickly.

But do teenagers really have to be told that they are Magical Stars! every day on the job? I can't imagine they actually buy that bullcrap, do they?

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I think of the jobs I had when I was a young buck. I was a gardener at a college (glorified sprinkler operator and shrubbery hacker),

You will bring me a Shrubbery! NI!!!!!

 

[TP2000]

You will bring me a Shrubbery! NI!!!!!

I tell ya, that job was a beast. It was the summer I turned 15. This was before they had invented all sorts of electric gardening gizmos and weed whackers, or even a Workers Comp department.

I had a wheelbarrow, a pair of canvas gloves, and pruning shears; and giant Rhododendron shrubs from one side of campus to the other to hack apart all summer. By September I went back to high school, and I used that summer's money to buy a Bell & Howell movie camera and a folding movie screen at Jafco. Fabulous memories!

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I tell ya, that job was a beast. This was before they had invented all sorts of electric gizmos and weed whackers, or even a Workers Comp department.

I had a wheelbarrow, a pair of canvas gloves, and pruning shears; and giant Rhododendron shrubs from one side of campus to the other to hack apart all summer. By September I went back to high school, and I used that summer's money to buy a Bell & Howell movie camera and a folding movie screen at Jafco. Fabulous memories!

And I thought I had it rough when I worked the McDonald's drive thru

 

[el_super]

At least that's how I remember unions working from my early working days as a Teamster. I can't imagine the concept and legality of union contracts has changed that much. Has it?

Wow... are you new at this?

Contracts can be amended if both parties agree to the terms. That's what happened when Disney had to raise wages to $15 an hour. It's what literally just happened when they came to agreements over the terms of the furloughs/layoffs. If Disney decides to raise wages, the union will not disagree.

I can't figure it out either. I seem to have entered into the crosshairs by daring to call the entry-level jobs like burger flipping and bathroom cleaning "entry-level".

How is it so difficult to comprehend the issue here, when I have posted it so many times? It isn't about the living wages or what you consider unskilled labor, it's that you are feigning concern over these jobs being lost and the harm to the Disneyland experience being done in a rather obvious assault on the public health closures.

It's pretty obvious you have absolutely no concern over those Cast Members, and your continued dismissal of the one action that would prevent such a lost of talent (raising wages) proves it.

 

[drew81]

I doubt it. Most of these CM's were making less than $20 an hour, with rent to worry about. And for the salaried Dockers managers, they were in lower management making less than $100K a year, with mortgages and car payments and kids to worry about. And droopy Dockers to iron.

These are not jobs you sit around waiting for 15 months hoping to be recalled. The vast majority of these CM's will have moved on with their lives and careers elsewhere, if they are even still living within 50 miles of Disneyland.



Agreed, and good point on the furlough vs. laid off thing.

But honestly, once you get to the six month mark of not working you could call the tens of thousands of unemployed Astronauts if you wanted to and they still wouldn't have a job. Disneyland is still closed and they still don't have jobs.

If this closure was only for a month or two last spring, that would be one thing. But now, realistically, it's going to be at least 13 or 14 months of closure before Disneyland reopens in Spring, 2021. And that's best case scenario.

It's entirely possible that Disneyland doesn't open until July-September timeframe of 2021. That will have been 15 months of full closure before CM's are recalled next June for a July '21 reopening.

They may get some CM's to return to their old jobs after over a year of unemployment, but I think the vast majority of those furloughed/laid-off/Astronaut CM's will be hard to pop back into sudden existence next summer. I doubt Disneyland will ever be the same again, so much talent and experience will have been permanently lost.

Basically the entire Entertainment Dept is just gone?

 

[SuddenStorm]

Basically the entire Entertainment Dept is just gone?

From what I've heard, yes. With live theater illegal in California for the foreseeable future, it doesn't make sense for Disneyland to keep that department fully staffed. I know a few are still there- since someone has to dress up as Mickey when the park reopens, but basically everyone lost their jobs.

 

[lazyboy97o]

From what I've heard, yes. With live theater illegal in California for the foreseeable future, it doesn't make sense for Disneyland to keep that department fully staffed. I know a few are still there- since someone has to dress up as Mickey when the park reopens, but basically everyone lost their jobs.

Entertainment was also decimated at Walt Disney World.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Entertainment was also decimated at Walt Disney World.

No one's saying it wasn't. But in a Disneyland thread talking about Disneyland entertainment in Orange County, California not Orange County, Florida- what Disney World does or doesn't do is largely irrelevant in Anaheim.