D
Deleted member 107043
Wow. Those MAGA fortune cookie messages you've been reading are getting wild.
On that note I'm out. This conversation is beyond stupid.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Disneyland and Disney World lay off 28,000 employees amid pandemic struggles - OCR/SCNG
- Thread starter Darkbeer1
- Start date
Wow. Those MAGA fortune cookie messages you've been reading are getting wild.
On that note I'm out. This conversation is beyond stupid.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Excess deaths have already been measured and reported on widely.You know 2.8 Million Americans drop dead every year, right? In 2018, it was more accurately 2,839,205 deaths of Americans per the CDC. I was on this board in 2018, and I don't remember anyone here demanding we mourn the thousands and thousands of Americans dropping dead every day in 2018.
Deaths are sad, funerals are emotional for the loved ones left behind. But we all die, especially when we get old. After about age 80? Humans start dropping like flies, even in the USA.
It will be interesting to see what the total death toll for America is for 2020, once the death stats are compiled and confirmed by the CDC a year or so from now. Will it jump by 300,000, or will it trend the same because the average age of death for Covid patients is over the average age of death of 78 anyway?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I'm genuinely sorry to hear that your 93-ish year old veteran grandfather passed away this year.
There was an old duffer I'd seen for years who always wore his USN WW2 hat to my local Ralph's, he served on the second USS Yorktown in the Pacific in '44-'45, and we'd often say hello and chat in the produce department or in line. I haven't seen him at Ralph's since the pandemic started even during Senior Shopping Hour, and I really hope he's still hanging in there somewhere.
And yet... he is in his mid 90's. So...
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Even before the year is over? The CDC doesn't release their mortality stats for a specific year until quite a few months after that year ended. The CDC's mortality report for calendar year 2018 was released in January, 2020 for example.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/d... 2018, a total of,at birth increased 0.1 year.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Yes, because deaths are counted as they occur. The final report doesn't preclude ongoing measurement.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I guess my point is, will the total death toll for 2020 suddenly jump up by 300,000? What will the grand total of American deaths look like for 2020?
Will the yearly tally of deaths look something like this...
2018 = 2.8 Million Deaths
2019 = 2.8 Million Deaths
2020 = 3.1 Million Deaths
Or will it not be such a dramatic bump of "an extra" 300,000 deaths? I don't know that we'll have that total info on 2020 from the CDC until early 2022.
Taking the example I used above about 95 year old World War II veterans, it's likely that a 95 year old man is going to die in a particular year. He is, after all, almost 20 years past the average age of American death of 78. So if he died of Covid in May, instead of dying of a stroke in August or passing away in his sleep in November, does the total tally of millions of American deaths every year actually change that much for 2020? It will be interesting to see how that works I think.
I mention this all not to be morbid, but just because the average age of Covid death is so high. If it was a disease that killed young people, instead of those over age 75, this very morbid conversation would be different.
Last edited:
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Excess deaths for 2020 have already exceeded 300,000.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm?s_cid=mm6942e2_w
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
My condolences to you and your family. I just lost my uncle last Thursday to COVID-19 complications. I’m thankful for the last time I spent with him.
I'm genuinely sorry to hear that your 93-ish year old veteran grandfather passed away this year.
There was an old duffer I'd seen for years who always wore his USN WW2 hat to my local Ralph's, he served on the second USS Yorktown in the Pacific in '44-'45, and we'd often say hello and chat in the produce department or in line. I haven't seen him at Ralph's since the pandemic started even during Senior Shopping Hour, and I really hope he's still hanging in there somewhere.
And yet... he is in his mid 90's. So...
Thank you, he was 102 when he passed last month. He "saw" both world wars in a sense. Lived through one pandemic, the great depression and saw the rise of technology. I will be the first to admit, he was old. But he was running competitive track up in his late 90s. Even being inducted into the Track & Field Hall of Fame in his 90s. He was smart as a whip, and perfectly fine...until 2 weeks before he died. The last week was so bad, he didn't get killed from a stroke, or anything quick. He lost his ability to swallow from the virus, and essentially died from dehydration over the course of a week.
My point through all this being, he had a great life and everything seemed to be going fine, but due to a contact at the grocery store he got it. They never traced who gave it to him (not that they even tried). We only know where he got it because he was trying to stay safe and only left his house for essentials once a week.
I can't wait until I can ride the Haunted Mansion, I'm honestly really missing the gingerbread scent being blasted in my face right about now (the NBC overlay is debatable). I'll admit, no one is infallible, including myself or Newsom. I just don't want anyone else to have to witness what I did and experience the loss I experienced.
2020 sucks (massive pay cuts (leading to me moving states), losing my dad to cancer and grandfather to covid less than 2 weeks apart) and I wish I could fast forward through the rest of it.
No, you.
Seniors are dying alone across this country because you are selfish. If I wanted to I could flood this place with links to stories from senior homes across the country, the world, of seniors dying alone, committing suicide, seniors that would trade their solitary confinement for the risk of getting the flu. The stories are all over local papers from Alaska to Florida, US to Australia. If you haven't seen those I suggest you open your eyes and extend the your news gathering beyond CNN, ABC, New York Times and their ilk.
Your grandfather died? Hey, so did mine. He was 102 as well. Fell off a ladder cleaning his gutter, broke his hip, and spent his last 2 years in care. Strong as an ox, skinny as a rail, then suffered in a wheel chair. He said he'd wish he had broken his neck and gotten it over with. He talked stock market, financial markets all the way to the end. So he was smart as a whip too. Death doesn't care about IQ.
All of my grandparents are dead now, they all went through the various real wars. Died of covid? No. How about heart disease, cancer, etc. I guess those deaths were what, easier?? My dad is dying of cancer, my mother already did. I see him all the time. He says "screw the covid thing, I'm dying one way or the other, come see me. so I go." I guess he doesn't count? He's not smart? Wanna bet? I'll stack their life experiences up against your grandfathers any day if you want to play that game. Their deaths were as difficult on their families as another.
Perhaps you want to hear how I watched my brother die? My mother? No, not of covid, this was long ago. I can tell you the story if you want. I didn't think so. You have no corner on death, experiencing the death of loved ones.
Janet Dean's in-laws died in a NY city senior home because Coumo directed infected seniors be taken back into those homes. She is ignored or ridiculed by your side, who have made Coumo, Newsome, Whitmer, etc and their thugs into Gods who must never be questioned or made to answer for their errors.
You've come to a Disney board to condemn all of those fighting for freedom and liberty - like you say your grandfather did, my grandfather did, my parents did. How dare you come here and assume you are the only one who has suffered loss to covid or anything else. You have no moral authority over anyone else.
You want to get personal? We can get personal.
No one here has been advocating zero mitigation, zero effort. There are some easy obvious things to do, and most of the country has done them, and beyond.
But destroying the future of our country, our children and grandchildren to save the lives of 102 year old people is a price too high for such actions does not contribute to The Good. Despite all measures our local senior center has become totally infected. Few deaths. Despite all those controls the old folks are getting sick. But people like you just pour on the gas and would like to see everyone just cower in their homes forever, for you cry really is Not One Death. And that my friend, is simply irrational, impossible, and destructive of mind, body, and soul.
Have a magical day.
Last edited:
Thank you. But everyone around the world is also strong to be going through the pandemic.
I don't want anyone to think I'm posting this for sympathy, or as an "emotional" argument for my side. I just want to present my personal experience with the virus and some of the reasoning I think the way I do now. I understand both sides, I really do. I also personally have had COVID and recovered fine (mostly, a little bit of brain fog here and there), where I got it is unknown since the state seems to not actually be trying to do any contact tracing. In the end my grandfather and father are nothing but blips in data to almost everyone world wide just like all of us will be eventually. I just think that if we can all sacrifice a little, that would prevent others from having to sacrifice a lot I can do that.
I'm looking forward to the day I can go back to DLR and get on Rise Before Dawn
(even though my first experience with it was a break down...and 6am was way too early to wake up), as well as seeing what the Grim Grinning Ghosts have done with the place while we've been locked out since last January. It will have to be a while due to me having to move out of state, but I'm looking forward to it still.Talk about wild delusions, or should I be more accurate... wild strawmen.
Death is a part of life, this is clearly something we all know and experience. If someone is already dying (like my father from cancer and yours), I fully agree their family should be able to visit them. The thing is that person would then have to be quarantined from the rest of the population around them (nursing home, hospital, etc.)
I am sorry to hear of your personal experiences as well, death sucks for everyone around them. I'm not going to attack you for your stories, or deaths like you seem to be doing to me.
I think Coumo is a complete idiot for that, have I ever said anything in favor of sending sick people back to infect others? I'll wait for you to find me saying that, because it's completely against what I think is the right thing to do. I additionally have never said the people you listed are gods and should never be questioned. In fact above I literally said no one is infallible, including you or me.
Again, I never said I was the only one. In fact I stated above over 1.8 million people have.
THEN. WHY. ARE. CASES. RISING. One simple question.
My rally cry isn't "not one death" it's "minimize infection, until vaccines are readily available for those most at risk."
You claim that no one is advocating for zero mitigation, then what do you want?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Oh.... My.... Goodness. I can only imagine the stories this man must have had! The insight, the perspective. It's stunning to consider.
I'm a man of the 20th century myself, and often I miss it, especially when dealing with youngster employees who can't even grunt out a greeting any more because their language and inter-personal skills are so horribly stunted by the 21st century culture. But I can't even begin to approach that type of breadth that he had.
I am actually envious of his lifetime scope. 102 years. From 1918 to 2020. Just... wow.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
In my decades of posting online, I've never laughed at CM's who want to earn a little extra. I think almost all of them should be paid a little more than they have, although the very fast pay raises they got in 2017-2019 get them pretty close to where I think they should be for entry-level work in SoCal.
Although the rapid rise of pay scales wasn't only a Disneyland thing, the entire American economy was doing that in 2019 with only 3.5% unemployment.
But regardless, I thought of this thread just now when considering the funny-because-it's-sad discussion we are having over in another thread about the absolute disastrous way WDW management runs their guided tour programs out in the swamp. I'll post the thread below, but the point of it? This is EXACTLY what I am worried about with losing thousands and thousands of CM's at Disneyland after the place is shut down for a minimum of 15 months to up to 18 or 20 months, by not opening until much later in 2021.
WDW has clearly shown that the training and management of CM's, even in highly profitable departments like guided tours, can easily go very wrong. The training is bad, the management is bad, the holding CM's accountable to minimum standards of professionalism is non-existent. And so if you lose all that tenure and all that cultural group knowledge that exists in Disneyland, from busboys to Docker-clad managers, Disneyland is hosed.
You end up with an embarrassing and pathetic situation like WDW has with their highly profitable guided tours they ran into the ground even before Covid hit.
A tour guide telling customers for $100 per person that Walt had to close his tiki bird dinner show restaurant because Disneyland visitors in 1963 were too afraid that the robot birds were going to crap into their teriyaki chicken is exactly what happens when a culture like Disneyland comes apart at the seams. And that's what I'm afraid is already happening in Anaheim after a years-long full closure and a loss of thousands and thousands of CM's.
The funny part of this other thread discussing this, and more!, can be found here....
Micechat and the state of Fan Sites
That small world announcement seems so interesting looking back now that we've had the announcement of a different popular attraction's closure. As someone who's only been to Disneyland/DCA in Anaheim, and didn't start going until '97- Splash Mountain is just as integral to Disneyland as it's a...
Last edited:
MoonRakerSCM
Well-Known Member
There's a problem with putting people on ignore. When others quote ignored users, you still see context.
Oh well. I see the argument is still ongoing and blocked users accusing others of hating CMs and wishing death upon them... all while pushing political ideology on a Disney forum.
TP, I can't believe you actually spit in the faces of CMs when they bring your order at a restaurant or ask you to load into a ride vehicle. You monster. You should be crawling up to Sacramento and slitting your throat on the steps of the capitol in the name of paying bus boys $100 per hour. Agree to this, OR ELSE.
Oh well. I see the argument is still ongoing and blocked users accusing others of hating CMs and wishing death upon them... all while pushing political ideology on a Disney forum.
TP, I can't believe you actually spit in the faces of CMs when they bring your order at a restaurant or ask you to load into a ride vehicle. You monster. You should be crawling up to Sacramento and slitting your throat on the steps of the capitol in the name of paying bus boys $100 per hour. Agree to this, OR ELSE.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's why I never went to those Noon Meetups in the Hub on Sunday's. I was too busy hogging a table at the Plaza Inn yelling "You Suck!" at every busboy who walked by my table.
Cast Members.... yeesh. I just hate 'em!
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
Raven I am sorry for your loss.
truecoat
Well-Known Member
You know 2.8 Million Americans drop dead every year, right? In 2018, it was more accurately 2,839,205 deaths of Americans per the CDC.
I was on this message board in 2018, and I don't remember anyone here asking we mourn the thousands and thousands of Americans dropping dead every day in 2018.
Deaths are sad, funerals are emotional for the loved ones left behind. But we all die, especially when we get old. After about age 80? Humans start dropping like flies, even in the USA.
It will be interesting to see what the total death toll for America is for 2020, once the death stats are compiled and confirmed by the CDC a year or so from now. Will it jump by 300,000, or will it trend the same because the average age of death for Covid patients is over the average age of death of 78 anyway?
Here you go, Between March 1st and Nov 7th. Excess deaths, minus Corona Virus and you end up with 91 thousand unreported covid deaths according to the NYT. These are due to undiagnosed deaths at home. People who got sick and never went to the ER or DR.
| U.S. March 1 - Nov. 7 | 17% | 329,300 | − | 237,583 | = | 91,700 |
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
Personally I haven't seen anything of the sort and I don't have anyone on ignore. Yes, false information is being called out. However, I have not seen anyone accuse TP or anyone of wishing death on CM's or anything of the sort.
Despite things getting heated from time to time, discussion and debate is healthy. This is not an easy issue. It's unfortunate that having an opinion on one issue automatically places you in a political ideology. This is not something that should be politicized. We all want the same goal. There are differences of opinion on how to get there, but we all want to move past this.
One thing I would hope that all people do is try and take the extreme out of the discussion. Many people including myself disagree with much of what TP says. However you going to the extreme and saying posters are accusing TP of spitting in CM faces and wishing death upon them is not helpful, even if you are purposefully being over dramatic. As you said, you have some people on ignore so when you only see an over dramatic response you think they are being serious.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
You only see context of the ignored user when you request it, which is what you seem to be doing.