Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[lebeau]

For the 6 and under? Yes, it probably would be, but most people who visit MK are not. The ride's thrill based designed would also likely prohibit the youngest (and most frightended) guests from even riding it in the first place (likely a 40" height requirment like SM). As would the giant forebding wall outside the experience. Not to mention everyone and their children has a different reaction to what scares them. If 8 or 9 out of every 10 kids comes out fine, does the fact that 1 or 2 are scared make it wrong?

Alien Encounter. I rest my case.

I brought up Fantasmic because it is a largely villain based experience in WDW, that while frightening to some, is loved by most who see it. If a ride (or land) did the same, I'd consider it a success.

It's at DHS where I think a villains land would be more accpetable.

I thought MK was for eveyone? At least its best loved attractions have broad appeal.

Ideally, sure. But from a practical standpoint, it's aimed at kids these days. There's an upper limit to the level of thrills and scares you can put in there now. Wasn't always the case. Probably shouldn't be the case. But it is what it is.

I could say the same for you in this case.

It's true. You won't change my opinion. But I'm pretty upfront that this is just my opinion.

In the same way one opinion could be criticised by having a "fan boy" perspective, so could one from a parent with younger children who may have different tastes and reactions on certain subjects than others. Not one alone could (or should) be acurately used to justify this kind of expansion decision.

But one has a lot more weight with the PTB. If a new attraction or land is going to result in the kinds of complaints that got Snow White and AE shuttered, it's probably not a good idea to build it at MK.

Also (and this is pure conjecture on my part) I don't think the villains have anywhere near the appeal people around here think they do. Once you get outside of the fan base around here, most adults and teens don't know who the villains are and don't think they are cool.

At best, the average Joe might have a villain or two that they think is cool. But they aren't likely to get excited about Jafar, Maleficent and Ursula all under one roof. I suspect most people would think that was kind of lame. Could be totally wrong on that one. But I just don't see casual tourists gettinge excited because the Queen of Hearts and Hades are finally getting their time in the spotlight.

And as 74 pointed out, there's no sensible reason for them all to be hanging out together. It's just a weird idea.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Alien Encounter. I rest my case.

I, personally, found Alien Encounter terrifying at the age of 11, to the point of tears. I refused to experience it again until I was almost 18. At that point it was a more enjoyable experience for me.

Do I think Disney made the right decision in removing it? Not at all. Just because Disneyland was built on the premise of being a family park does not mean that literally every attraction HAS to be able to be experienced and enjoyed by the entire family. The fact that they have attractions with height requirements is, in fact, the antithesis of that ideal, and even for the attractions that do not have them, there are many that are not universally loved by everyone that experiences them. That doesn't mean they are placed on the chopping block (although, in the case of Imagination, it seems that if an attraction is universally loved, it provides grounds for them to tinker with something that doesn't need tweaking).

 

[GLaDOS]

AE is such a different beast than Disney villains.

AE was designed to be completely and utterly terrifying.

 

[lebeau]

I, personally, found Alien Encounter terrifying at the age of 11, to the point of tears. I refused to experience it again until I was almost 18. At that point it was a more enjoyable experience for me.

Do I think Disney made the right decision in removing it? Not at all. Just because Disneyland was built on the premise of being a family park does not mean that literally every attraction HAS to be able to be experienced and enjoyed by the entire family. The fact that they have attractions with height requirements is, in fact, the antithesis of that ideal, and even for the attractions that do not have them, there are many that are not universally loved by everyone that experiences them.

I don't disagree with anything you posted. I am not talking about how things should be. I'm talking about how they are. Realistically, Disney won't build something themed to villains in the MK because they know they will get complaints. I don't see that changing any time soon.

AE is such a different beast than Disney villains.

AE was designed to be completely and utterly terrifying.

That's a fair point. But a Villains ride would probably have a lot in common with Snow White's Scary Adventure. Or even the unintentionally scary Stitch's Great Escape.

Bottom line: If Disney built in in MK, they would get complaints. And they know that.

 

[alissafalco]

Alien Encounter. I rest my case.



It's at DHS where I think a villains land would be more accpetable.


And as 74 pointed out, there's no sensible reason for them all to be hanging out together. It's just a weird idea.

Exactly, it makes absolute no sense to have all the villains together when they are all from different stories, locations, and times in history. I really don't see the appeal at all. I'm sure the people who are pro VV are a very small minority.

 

[Lee]

Exactly, it makes absolute no sense to have all the villains together when they are all from different stories, locations, and times in history. I really don't see the appeal at all. I'm sure the people who are pro VV are a very small minority.

Doesn't stop them from having all the princesses hang out together.
Same thing, in my opinion.

 

[lebeau]

Doesn't stop them from having all the princesses hang out together.
Same thing, in my opinion.

It's similar. But there are differences.

For one thing, the Princess franchise is everywhere. While the concept of Cinderella and Snow White is a bit weird when you think about the fact they are from different countries and different time periods, most people don't think about that. They are used to seeing these princesses side by side so it doesn't feel weird at all.

On the other hand, most people aren't used to seeing Disney villains outside of the context of the movie they appear in. And the villains aren't all the same thing. Having Captain Hook hang out with Scar is more of a disconnect than having two human princesses from different fairy tales socialize together. (And before anyone brings up the mermaid, she's human most of the time in the princess franchise.)

Also, princesses socializing or working together makes sense once you get past the different locations, time frames, languages etc. It's harder to see these villains putting their differences aside for the common goal of fighting a mouse they have never encountered before.

It's a leap. But a much, much smaller one. I can accept that Tiana invites the other princesses over for tea more easily than a pirate and a lion teaming up to take on Mickey Mouse.

 

[lebeau]

Also, it's probably worth asking where (outside of meet and greets, character meals and parades) the princesses appear together in the park. In all of their attractions and shows, they are treated as individual properties.

 

[Lee]

Not to continue this massive thread drift, but Scar and other non-human characters were not part of the VV E-tic. Only the human ones.

Putting animals in there would never work, except for Mickey....I guess. (Not sure if the final version of the ride would have had the mouse in there or not. From what I hear, I doubt it. )

 

[lebeau]

Not to continue this massive thread drift, but Scar and other non-human characters were not part of the VV E-tic. Only the human ones.

Putting animals in there would never work, except for Mickey....I guess. (Not sure if the final version of the ride would have had the mouse in there or not. From what I hear, I doubt it. )

That makes for less of a leap. But still a much larger leap than the princesses being packaged together.

When they base an entire land around the idea that the Princesses have banded together to catch Stitch, then it will come a lot closer to the weirdness of the VV concept. Even then, it's still more palatable as it would not have the scare factor.

 

[misterID]

The only one of those that I see as close to a direct comparisson is the Mansion. Pirates isn't really scary. Space and Thunder have height restrictions. Mr. Toad is gone now and really wasn't scary.

The Mansion is really only scary in the stretching room. Once kids get past that, they are fine. But the Mansion appeals to the whole family. A ride featuring cartoon characters is going to be seen as a kiddie ride by most people. Same as Snow White or Stitch. There is a very high chance it would scare little kids and have limited appeal to the general public who does not share the passion some people around here feel for the villains.

Go ask a non-Disney fan who or what a Chernabog is. Be prepared for funny looks.

That is so paper thin. Every bit of the HM is scary to a kid.

Every kid I knew was just as afraid of Pirates as HM. And yes, Toad was scary and POPULAR. Saying a scary attraction won't work just isn't true.

And I'm sure it would appeal to a WIDE variety of people. And I seriously doubt they would make it a scary ride. People have grown up with these villains and they're just as endearing as "the heros" to Disney fans.

 

[lebeau]

That is so paper thin. Every bit of the HM is scary to a kid.

Every kid I knew was just as afraid of Pirates as HM. And yes, Toad was scary and POPULAR. Saying a scary attraction won't work just isn't true.

And I'm sure it would appeal to a WIDE variety of people. And I seriously doubt they would make it a scary ride. People have grown up with these villains and they're just as endearing as "the heros" to Disney fans.

I can agree to disagree.

I will restate my opinion that you are vastly over-estimating the appeal of the villains to all be a relatively small few here on the boards. But I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to back it up. So there's no point debating it.

I'm fairly confident that Disney will never take a chance on the VV idea. So neither of us is likely to ever be proven right or wrong.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Didn't Disney already try to franchise out the villains??? They released a direct to DVD movie House of Villains, correct?? And didn't they try to get a line of villains merchandise into the public eye??? And I thought there was a Disney memorabilia convention dedicated solely to Disney villains at one point... And I thought it coincided with Disney trying to get a dragon line going too... And then suddenly stopped... Unless I am imagining things...

 

[ScoutN]

I can agree to disagree.

I will restate my opinion that you are vastly over-estimating the appeal of the villains to all be a relatively small few here on the boards. But I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to back it up. So there's no point debating it.

I'm fairly confident that Disney will never take a chance on the VV idea. So neither of us is likely to ever be proven right or wrong.

It is all relative. One kid might find it scary while 2 do not and vice versa. Same goes for adults and teens on that note. Being 30 minutes from a Howl O Scream and attending nearly every weekend you really see that some/a lot of kids just do not scare. With things on tv, commercials, internet, music, and everything else in media items that used to be considered scary just are not anymore. My six year old cousin goes through the mazes with me and does not flinch a bit. That has nothing to do with bad parenting as he is the smartest most well behaved kid I know. Things have changed.

 

[culturenthrills]

As awesome as a Villians land would have been it will just be another blue sky plan that is never gonna happen.
As great as it is that things are looking like it is gonna change Disney moves so slow. You would think that they would try to move up the opening of the Dwarves mine ride. You would think they could get that built faster. Hell, look how long it is taking them to build a few meet and greet and merchandise tents in Storybook circus. You look at how long the construction of FLE has dragged on and then you look at Universal that is going balls to the wall on construction of Transformers(which is in the middle of the park and look how fast they are moving) and HP 2.0 on top of construction probably starting on an additon to IOA next year. And maybe WDW will be announcing something by the time Transformers opens but will still be another 2 years from opening.

Also, Del Taco much better than Taco Bell. Chipolte wayyyy better than Moe's. The quality of the ingredients at Chipolte blows Moe's out of the water. I have always felt that Moe's is a ripoff for what you get. But that is just me.

 

[spacemt354]

That is so paper thin. Every bit of the HM is scary to a kid.

Every kid I knew was just as afraid of Pirates as HM. And yes, Toad was scary and POPULAR. Saying a scary attraction won't work just isn't true.

And I'm sure it would appeal to a WIDE variety of people. And I seriously doubt they would make it a scary ride. People have grown up with these villains and they're just as endearing as "the heros" to Disney fans.

An attraction/mini-land where the main characters are villians won't work though. There would be a lot of backlash. And as proof, neither toad nor alien encounter are rides in the magic kingdom anymore. People complained about the scare factor. Does it mean I didn't enjoy those rides? Of course not, but the fact that this idea was discarded indicates that Disney had an idea this concept would polarize some guests due to the scare factor.

HM is not that scary, IMO. There are a few moments (stretching room, maybe the doors) but other than that it's a fun family ride. But that is the key-- its only one ride, not an entire mini-land dedicated to antagonists. Not to get philosophical here, but for the kids who aren't scared by vv, should we really "like" the villains? I don't see the appeal. The only Villians I actually like aren't even Disney (darth vader and the joker) Other than those two, I dont see what is so great about Villians. They are sinply evil people, who have an agenda against the protagonist. Assembling a Villians "avengers" team in the magic kingdom for a second flume ride isn't as appealing to me. And that opinion is not going to change because I don't see what's so great about them in the first place. If anything Disney should promote Disney heroes, not Villians, because heroes are the characters kids and kids at heart should aspire to be.

 

[lebeau]

Didn't Disney already try to franchise out the villains??? They released a direct to DVD movie House of Villains, correct?? And didn't they try to get a line of villains merchandise into the public eye??? And I thought there was a Disney memorabilia convention dedicated solely to Disney villains at one point... And I thought it coincided with Disney trying to get a dragon line going too... And then suddenly stopped... Unless I am imagining things...

I don't remember all of that. But they did try to franchise the villains just like they tried to franchise the heroes. Neither one met with much success.

It is all relative. One kid might find it scary while 2 do not and vice versa. Same goes for adults and teens on that note. Being 30 minutes from a Howl O Scream and attending nearly every weekend you really see that some/a lot of kids just do not scare. With things on tv, commercials, internet, music, and everything else in media items that used to be considered scary just are not anymore. My six year old cousin goes through the mazes with me and does not flinch a bit. That has nothing to do with bad parenting as he is the smartest most well behaved kid I know. Things have changed.

Obviously, it's all relative. There are going to be kids who aren't afraid of anything and there are going to be kids who are scared of It's a Small World.

But that's really not the point.

If Disney puts something scary at MK, they will get complaints. Things like Pirates and HM are grandfathered in. They have been around so long, they are expected and not a lot of people will complain about them. But if you put in a land filled with villains in a park that is aimed at kids* Disney will almost certainly get complaints that will eventually lead to changes.

*Let's all be honest with ourselves and admit that MK is aimed at kids these days.

 

[ScoutN]

But that's really not the point.

If Disney puts something scary at MK, they will get complaints. Things like Pirates and HM are grandfathered in. They have been around so long, they are expected and not a lot of people will complain about them. But if you put in a land filled with villains in a park that is aimed at kids* Disney will almost certainly get complaints that will eventually lead to changes.

*Let's all be honest with ourselves and admit that MK is aimed at kids these days.

I feel far more would like it than complain. I mean really, we are talking about bus command central on the face of the planet. The complaint list is endless for those wretched things. Doesn't stop them there.

 

[lebeau]

I feel far more would like it than complain. I mean really, we are talking about bus command central on the face of the planet. The complaint list is endless for those wretched things. Doesn't stop them there.

Far more people probably liked AE than complained about it. Didn't matter in that case and it wouldn't matter here. Heck, far more people probably liked Snow White than complained about it. Same result.

The bus system is a completely different animal. Disney is stuck with the buses.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I don't remember all of that. But they did try to franchise the villains just like they tried to franchise the heroes. Neither one met with much success.

I just looked up Disney Dragons... They did release a bunch of pins and several statue figurines... But, yea, does seem like it was met with very little success... Maybe it has to do with the fact that Disney has no clue how to market something that can be slanted towards boys and adults and only knows how to market something geared to little girls and females in general...