That's too much work. It'd be a lot easier just to get a job with the company and wreak your havoc from the inside.
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Disney World Law Enforcement Spending Increases
- Thread starter JohnD
- Start date
Scuttle
Well-Known Member
That would work too!
Scuttle
Well-Known Member
Nothing happened in 30 years without even a bag check. Even back then a shooting would have made the papers.
Sorry but you are factually incorrect as it relates to mass shootings. The worst possible thing that could happen at Disney World is to have someone pull out a gun then have multiple "good guys with guns" respond. It leads to mass panic, other "good guys" pull out their guns and fire at the first person they see with a gun - often the wrong person. The more bullets flying the less safe everyone is.
Add this to the fact that multiple people with guns would confuse legitimate law enforcement response, as they would not know where the shooting was coming from, how many people were involved or what kinds of weapons they were facing. Innocent civilians publicly toting guns would become immediate suspects.
Here is a good breakdown of past incidents of "good guys with guns" and why its not a good idea:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222
SoManyWasps
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of, frankly, bad speculation about Disney's Security operation going on in this thread, and as someone who works in the Security Industry, I wanted to throw my two cents in.
-Disney Parks are what are known as hardened targets. There are multiple layers of security between a potential perpetrator and potential victims. There is no such thing as immunity from attack, but Disney very clearly takes all the necessary steps to protect park guests.
-A lot of people have complained about the "security theater" at the parks. Security theater, while not always the best option for several reasons, offers a valuable deterrent effect by forcing every guest to have direct interaction with a member of the security team. Same goes for bag checks. Yes, there is value in searching people's property for illegal items and contraband, it also offers an opportunity for a face to face personal assessment by a security professional trained to observe people for unnatural or suspicious behavior. Interactions with Security Cast Members offer the opportunity to stop events from happening when they're in the planning stages, as opposed to when the shooting begins. It's much easier to deter an active shooter from choosing you as a target than it is to stop them as the incident is happening.
-Disney has a technological advantage over most police departments in the US. Not to mention the fact that they're not bound by pesky things like the 4th amendment. There are layers of security inside and around the parks that the average person will never know or care about. And WDW especially has a fantastic tool for tracking anyone inside their parks. Think your MyMagic+ is just there to offer you a seamless payment and ticketing experience? Guess again.
-Just because you can't see the metal detector doesn't mean there isn't one. Just because you didn't walk through one doesn't mean you weren't scanned. On my recent trip to DLR (September), everyone was going through traditional scanners, for what it's worth.
-It's easier to spot a security risk from inside your own walls than it is from the outside. If someone's actual plan was "go work for Dis, gain the trust of my coworkers for 3-5 years and then go nuts" they'd be found out in pretty short order. No legitimate psychopath is going to be able to mask their intentions for that long. Now, if you want to argue that disgruntled workers in general are a risk, I'm happy to agree with that. That's why Disney (and frankly every employer) needs to be more committed to providing safe and nurturing work environments that minimize psychological distress and offer opportunities to grant treatment to at risk individuals. America in general does a really bad job of this, but improving working conditions even slightly can have tremendous benefits in risk reduction.
I'm not stupid enough to pretend the risk is zero, or somehow negated entirely by the security operation on Disney property. But they do a much better job than a lot of the people in this thread are giving credit for. There's always risk, Vegas proved that beyond a doubt. But Disney does an excellent job. They're the industry standard, bar none. And if you're still concerned, I honestly have to recommend that you stay home, because if that's the case there's nothing Disney could ever do to make you feel safe.
-Disney Parks are what are known as hardened targets. There are multiple layers of security between a potential perpetrator and potential victims. There is no such thing as immunity from attack, but Disney very clearly takes all the necessary steps to protect park guests.
-A lot of people have complained about the "security theater" at the parks. Security theater, while not always the best option for several reasons, offers a valuable deterrent effect by forcing every guest to have direct interaction with a member of the security team. Same goes for bag checks. Yes, there is value in searching people's property for illegal items and contraband, it also offers an opportunity for a face to face personal assessment by a security professional trained to observe people for unnatural or suspicious behavior. Interactions with Security Cast Members offer the opportunity to stop events from happening when they're in the planning stages, as opposed to when the shooting begins. It's much easier to deter an active shooter from choosing you as a target than it is to stop them as the incident is happening.
-Disney has a technological advantage over most police departments in the US. Not to mention the fact that they're not bound by pesky things like the 4th amendment. There are layers of security inside and around the parks that the average person will never know or care about. And WDW especially has a fantastic tool for tracking anyone inside their parks. Think your MyMagic+ is just there to offer you a seamless payment and ticketing experience? Guess again.
-Just because you can't see the metal detector doesn't mean there isn't one. Just because you didn't walk through one doesn't mean you weren't scanned. On my recent trip to DLR (September), everyone was going through traditional scanners, for what it's worth.
-It's easier to spot a security risk from inside your own walls than it is from the outside. If someone's actual plan was "go work for Dis, gain the trust of my coworkers for 3-5 years and then go nuts" they'd be found out in pretty short order. No legitimate psychopath is going to be able to mask their intentions for that long. Now, if you want to argue that disgruntled workers in general are a risk, I'm happy to agree with that. That's why Disney (and frankly every employer) needs to be more committed to providing safe and nurturing work environments that minimize psychological distress and offer opportunities to grant treatment to at risk individuals. America in general does a really bad job of this, but improving working conditions even slightly can have tremendous benefits in risk reduction.
I'm not stupid enough to pretend the risk is zero, or somehow negated entirely by the security operation on Disney property. But they do a much better job than a lot of the people in this thread are giving credit for. There's always risk, Vegas proved that beyond a doubt. But Disney does an excellent job. They're the industry standard, bar none. And if you're still concerned, I honestly have to recommend that you stay home, because if that's the case there's nothing Disney could ever do to make you feel safe.
I don't know where you work in the security industry, but the ideologically motivated "bad guy" can, indeed, plan to gain inside access then conduct his/her operation, and I'd bet s/he could do so without detection until it happened.
SoManyWasps
Well-Known Member
I mean, yeah, there's lots of things that can happen, but that doesn't make them likely. Ideologically motivated "bad guys" are usually focused in the near term, seeking out targets that are both high volume and easy to access. Much more likely is 1) disgruntled employee with a personal dispute and some sort of emotional or phycological trigger or 2l marginalized individual who is self radicalized in some way after becoming employed. You're talking about a Homeland style sleeper agent, which is a real thing sure, but not the most likely type of individual to pose an internal risk to any organization. Standard "preparing for the unlikely is the job of any good security operation" disclaimer not withstanding.
SoManyWasps
Well-Known Member
People forget that increasing the scale attracts attention. One guy hops a fence? Maybe he makes the front door. Twenty guys hop a fence? Every SWAT unit in a ten mile radius is in route.
And that's why I asked for clarification mass shooting vs "other situations"
Ideologically motivated is not the same thing as crazy.
Thank you for your service and you folks are just nuts! I did my time and always had mad respect for you guys. Someone has to do it, but glad its not me.
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Call me naive but I trust WDW has a security presence in the park that I am unaware of and frankly don't want to know (if I know the bad guys know). I have never felt unsafe In WDW, never gave it a thought. It's a sad commentary on the state of society that we (world) has to be concerned about this
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Ismael Flores
Well-Known Member
It would be great if they added a global entry/TSA pre-check line. I find it funny that I could go thru airports easily but I go to Disneyland and have to wait long lines to get checked
EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
While the park may not be entirely secure, no place really is. I'm sure if you coordinate enough planes to crash, you could overload the defenses and destroy your target. The point that I think we can all agree on, I think, is that it's better that Disney has more first responders on the scene, prepared for any emergency rather than having less. There is no way to prepare for every single scenario. However there are common sense things that you can do to help out.
Cake
Member
draybook
Well-Known Member
If you're "pleased by their presence", you must not pay attention in your normal day to day. Police are all over the place and it doesn't stop crime outside of the bubble. It won't stop a determined adversary. Sure, it might stop the idiot who "forgot" they had their firearm on them, but they're not the ones who you're worried about, are they? The only thing I disliked about the bag check during our trip a couple of weeks ago was having to wrestle out every single item in our strollers and then having to put them back in WITH the kids sitting in them. That's easier said than done with the way we pack for the MNSSHP.
Anyhow, tl;dr: Theater security/safety. The end.
Anyhow, tl;dr: Theater security/safety. The end.
Bad guys don't forget this.
SoManyWasps
Well-Known Member
Quit saying "bad guys" like it's some sort of catch all phrase that encompasses all legitimate security threats to the United States. It's lazy and disingenuous. The point I was trying to make is that the response to incidents like this tend to be proportionate to the force used in the incident itself. A guy running around with a knife and a elite 20 man attack unit would require, and receive, different threat responses.