News Disney World Cast Member unions to begin week of negotiations for wage increases, healthcare costs and more

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
You’re not getting it. Have a nice day.
I get it. Costs get passed on to the consumer. But you don’t get to play that card if you’ve been running the parks like a bottomless money pit with no discernible connection between spending and prices. After 20 years, to suddenly pretend there’s some connection… it’s dishonesty. Disney can and will say it. And it should be rejected out of hand.
 

jlhwdw

Well-Known Member
A pay increase doesn’t make people less rude.

Wonderful CMs have offered great service for less money.
Many wonderful CMs have left for better pay and a work life balance elsewhere. Which means you get folks that aren't able to do that filling some of the roles.
We don’t teach a work ethic anymore. We teach entitlement.

But enough about the park guests.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Many wonderful CMs have left for better pay and a work life balance elsewhere. Which means you get folks that aren't able to do that filling some of the roles.


But enough about the park guests.
That’s what they’re supposed to do - gain some experience at pay commensurate with (little) experience, and then either move up within the company, or parlay that experience into a better paying job elsewhere, or hang out in the same position with incremental increases over the years. That’s how it’s designed to work. It’s a merit-based system.

Re: guests: I agree.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
That’s what they’re supposed to do - gain some experience at pay commensurate with (little) experience, and then either move up within the company, or parlay that experience into a better paying job elsewhere, or hang out in the same position with incremental increases over the years. That’s how it’s designed to work. It’s a merit-based system.
Exactly. This is something I have never understood about CM's. This is no different than when I worked there decades ago.

I was 19 and did a job any other teenager walking in off the street could do with minimal training. I got paid frankly more than what my skill set was worth when considering benefits.

It was a great gig, never a second of real stress, made friends, met girls, and had a great time. Then moved on to get a real job, learned marketable skills, and had a career.

Why someone who has been waking up Jose every 20 minutes for 30 years thinks they deserve a nickel more than the teenager who learned to do it yesterday is beyond me.

Even worse, in my experience the fresh faced teenager has energy and still is excited about the "magic", while the 30 year vet is often bitter and tired.

In this world, you get paid based on the value of your skills in the marketplace. Simple as that. If you're doing a job a teenager could do, you may want to reevaluate your career choices.
 

jlhwdw

Well-Known Member
But this also goes back to the debate that will never be solved. Should the unskilled laborer choosing to make a 30 year career working at the turnstiles at Walt Disney World not be paid a competitive and living wage?

It's not "No One Wants To Work". It's "No One Wants To Work For You", and Disney is right there in the middle of it.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Should the unskilled laborer choosing to make a 30 year career working at the turnstiles at Walt Disney World not be paid a competitive and living wage?
No, they should not. That's their choice or their skillset. They should get probably annual modest increases if they get decent annual reviews, so they will be making more than teenagers out of high school, but not as much as someone who went to college to become x. Then again, I know people who have worked in retail for so long at the same job that they have houses way nicer than mine and have lived very comfortably from those annual increases adding up. And that makes sense, because you are rewarded for your reliability and stability for the company.

This whole "living wage" thing is so arbitrary. A job is worth what the job is worth based on what it directly or indirectly produces, not what the employee's rent is. If a company is making $200 in profits per day, they can't pay more than $200 per day in rent, electricity and payroll no matter what any given employee's rent is. And some will have $1000 apartments while others will have $2000 mortgages and still others will have no monthly expenses at all. So the whole thing falls apart pretty quickly if you look at it practically instead of something that just sounds good.

If everyone is starting at $15 an hour, and then rents go up, why is it their employer's obligation to pay more for the same work? What stops rents from going up until the whole thing is unsustainable?

There is more wiggle room with large corporations, but not with Mom & Pop Main Street. (Additional tirade deleted LOL.)
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Exactly. This is something I have never understood about CM's. This is no different than when I worked there decades ago.

I was 19 and did a job any other teenager walking in off the street could do with minimal training. I got paid frankly more than what my skill set was worth when considering benefits.

It was a great gig, never a second of real stress, made friends, met girls, and had a great time. Then moved on to get a real job, learned marketable skills, and had a career.

Why someone who has been waking up Jose every 20 minutes for 30 years thinks they deserve a nickel more than the teenager who learned to do it yesterday is beyond me.

Even worse, in my experience the fresh faced teenager has energy and still is excited about the "magic", while the 30 year vet is often bitter and tired.

In this world, you get paid based on the value of your skills in the marketplace. Simple as that. If you're doing a job a teenager could do, you may want to reevaluate your career choices.
Good points but my experience is somewhat difference. Leading teams of various ages. I would take a senior over a young kid any day. A senior has better attendance , not distracted with social media , willing to listen and make improvements and more customer oriented . Working with the young ones, not so. Reminds me of the Anne Hathaway Robert DeNiro move “ The Intern “.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
But this also goes back to the debate that will never be solved. Should the unskilled laborer choosing to make a 30 year career working at the turnstiles at Walt Disney World not be paid a competitive and living wage?

It's not "No One Wants To Work". It's "No One Wants To Work For You", and Disney is right there in the middle of it.
I think if people want to work for Disney theme parks their whole lives and make a career out of it, they should go in with the intentions of working their way up. When I was an undergrad, I met a business student who told me she wanted to work for In-N-Out (a California-based burger chain, for those who don’t know). I was initially confused and asked her why she was studying business if she had plans to work at a fast food joint. She explained that she wanted to start from the bottom and work her way up into corporate. In-N-Out is, I believe, the highest-paying fast food chain, with managers making six figures. She informed me of this and everything made sense then.

As a previous CM, I think to go into working for the Mouse and expect to be paid a living wage without moving up the chain is unrealistic. With that being said, additionally, as a previous CM, I agree with your last sentence. Disney can be a toxic and unfriendly company to work for. Getting paid pennies and barely surviving is already a lot. Working with and for people who suck and treat you like crap on top of that? No, thank you.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I get it. Costs get passed on to the consumer. But you don’t get to play that card if you’ve been running the parks like a bottomless money pit with no discernible connection between spending and prices. After 20 years, to suddenly pretend there’s some connection… it’s dishonesty. Disney can and will say it. And it should be rejected out of hand.
Yes, I have to admit that I have to calm myself down every time I see people respond to pay increases for CMs by grumbling that it will make the cost of their vacation go up. The cost of the vacation is not so high because of greedy CMs, who in many cases are struggling to make ends meet. The prices keep rising skyward because investors don't demand that the parks are just profitable, but their profits have to grow higher and higher every quarter until the end of time. If you want to be mad at someone for price increases, that's where you should look instead of getting mad at the peasants at the other end of the totem pole who you expect to not just do their jobs but project magic at you while ringing up your purchase or loading you onto a ride.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
A pay increase doesn’t make people less rude.

Wonderful CMs have offered great service for less money.

We don’t teach a work ethic anymore. We teach entitlement.
'You should be thankful for that job! If you were any good, you'd do it for even cheaper!'

Just because corporations have gotten away with underpaying employees (Disney is just one of nearly all of them) for decades doesn't mean that should continue or that you should use 'well, people used to do better' as an excuse.

Yes, you should be nice no matter what the situation is - unless, of course, someone is already giving you reason not to be. What you're getting paid has little bearing on that, except that you might take a little more guff if you're getting paid more. I know personally its easier to deal with a client because I bill by the hour, and it makes dealing with stupidity a lot easier. But if I was getting paid what front line CMs do, my patience would wear very thin very quickly.

But to say 'CMs used to get paid less and be happy about it' is putting a corporation first - one that has never made more money, lets not forget - and basically saying 'those CMs are replaceable, we can find ones to do it for less'. Lets not get into how some of these corporations (not really Disney in this case, thankfully), have been trying to engineer a recession so that they can reset wages to pre-COVID levels. Paying people what is being given now is not acceptable to them. Disney - with this contract offer - is showing that they are comfortable with this wage scale, because they'll be locked in.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
That’s what they’re supposed to do - gain some experience at pay commensurate with (little) experience, and then either move up within the company, or parlay that experience into a better paying job elsewhere, or hang out in the same position with incremental increases over the years. That’s how it’s designed to work. It’s a merit-based system.
So you obviously disagree with the sentiment that all (full time) jobs should pay a living wage. Which is exactly what was intended for the minimum wage when it was enacted.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
So you obviously disagree with the sentiment that all (full time) jobs should pay a living wage. Which is exactly what was intended for the minimum wage when it was enacted.
Well, it hasn't been the case in my lifetime of over 50 years. And I've worked 2-3 jobs at the same time most of my life just to keep the lights on.

So if we are to make that the case going forward, then it has to be done with intention and purpose, not just willy-nilly, "Hey, let's give everyone a raise, consequences be damned."

The minimum wage should have been raised responsibly over the last two decades. It wasn't. That's the fault of politicians and/or the huge companies that paid those politicians to keep the status quo.

That does not make it OK to now make up for that time on the backs of small businesses today.

Most of those businesses didn't even exist in the 80's or 90's. So businesses that were around then, "get away with it" and pocket the profits, and businesses existing now have to make up for it? Where is that money coming from? Can you guarantee increased sales to cover the cost? Of course you can't.

If we as a society decide wages have to take a huge jump to meet the latest decade, then the government should subsidize small businesses for the difference over a period of years. Otherwise, you're penalizing people who ought not be penalized.

Big businesses are a different story, but it still should be phased in gradually.

You can't lump in the corner store with Walmart or Disney. It's just as irresponsible. Most Main Street shop owners make about what they would make in a regular career, they just have no boss. And most have their homes on the line vs. their business at any given moment. Please disabuse any notion that as soon as you hang your shingle, you're "rich." Most businesses fail. The rest skim a little off the top while pushing other peoples' money around and paying taxes.

And try hiring someone in or just out of high school right now. Most can't spell but get offended when you tell them they can't text their friends at work. But they're worth a living wage still living with parents, while the business owner basically continues their education at no charge. Often, that investment on the part of the business owner is wasted on people who fail after 1-2 months.

You can't just think about what "sounds good." You need to take the whole picture into consideration.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I would never call anyone who works for those parks in any capacity having to deal with millions of people a day, regardless at what level, "unskilled" under any circumstances.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
And try hiring someone in or just out of high school right now. Most can't spell but get offended when you tell them they can't text their friends at work. But they're worth a living wage still living with parents, while the business owner basically continues their education at no charge. Often, that investment on the part of the business owner is wasted on people who fail after 1-2 months.
OMG the spelling and math skills are the worst. DD14 since 1st grade has been given the reinforcement from school that spelling just needs to be recognizable or use spell check on the chromebook. Since 5th grade math isn't the old do it on paper or in your head and remember what say 8×3=, they're told to use calculators and "as long as they know how to do the problem" is good enough. It drives me batty going back and forth with the system.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member

Good response, but not unexpected. No actual substance, just a pithy 'comeback'.

The largest employer near me has been understaffed for ten years. They hire people with no skills and no experience to a 6 month training program with a $60,000 salary, plus opportunities for additional overtime. At the end of the six months, they move to a permanent position with a $90,000 salary, plus opportunities for additional overtime. The only requirements are that you show up on time, pass a drug test, and don't fall asleep or endanger anyone on your shift. The place can't stay staffed.
Maybe its just a crappy place to work?
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
OMG the spelling and math skills are the worst. DD14 since 1st grade has been given the reinforcement from school that spelling just needs to be recognizable or use spell check on the chromebook. Since 5th grade math isn't the old do it on paper or in your head and remember what say 8×3=, they're told to use calculators and "as long as they know how to do the problem" is good enough. It drives me batty going back and forth with the system.
Wow.

But when the business lives and dies by social media posts, and people can't spell...

no one can find #Dizney
 

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