News Disney World Cast Member unions to begin week of negotiations for wage increases, healthcare costs and more

[TrainsOfDisney]

Do you even work? I'm not sure how these basic concepts have escaped you as an adult in the work force.

From your posts I assume you are either 12 and have never actually been in the workforce or your experience has been in a very sheltered union environment.

These are borderline personal attacks but yes, I work and I’ve never worked a Union job in my life.

 

[MR.Dis]

It's not really something to disagree about. The American economy has radically changed in the last 10-15 years. Employers are requiring college degrees for even low-level jobs these days; this didn't use to be the case. As such, an entire generation had to get college degrees, and were offered predatory loans to pay for the 200-400% tuition increases since the 1990s.

View attachment 701383

Median housing costs have skyrocketed, and greatly outpaced rises in employee pay. This has meant that the younger generation has gone even further into debt or struggled though less stable housing situations than previous generations.

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And since Baby Boomers didn't have as many children and are deciding to work into their later years, there are fewer people inheriting generational wealth and little room for younger generations to move up the food chain or even have a seat at the decision-making tables of business or government. Because they're being held in lower levels of employment for longer, they don't have time to accrue savings or retirement like previous generations did.

Is there still opportunity for anyone who is willing to work hard and make good choices? Maybe. But the odds are stacked against workers today more than they've ever been.

I have to chuckle at this. The same things were being said of my kids generation. Due to inflation, housing expense, off shoring jobs that the odds were stacked against them. You just do not want to take into consideration the individual's drive and ambitions. Let me tell you that todays economic situation is nothing like the early 1980. Prime rate was 20 percent, that is correct TWENTY, so you could just forget about buying a house. These times have their challenges, but every generation has their own specific challenges. To use that as an excuse that you cannot be successful is not factual.

 

[_caleb]

I have to chuckle at this. The same things were being said of my kids generation. Due to inflation, housing expense, off shoring jobs that the odds were stacked against them. You just do not want to take into consideration the individual's drive and ambitions. Let me tell you that todays economic situation is nothing like the early 1980. Prime rate was 20 percent, that is correct TWENTY, so you could just forget about buying a house. These times have their challenges, but every generation has their own specific challenges. To use that as an excuse that you cannot be successful is not factual.

Yes, I know people have always said "our generation has it harder than any previous generation!" And yes, I know interest rates used to be much higher than they are today. But you can't deny that a dollar went much farther back then than it does today. (I mean, I suppose you could deny it, but you'd be wrong). Here's a handy chart from CPI Inflation Calendar to illustrate my point:

Just so we're clear,

$1 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3.63 today, an increase of $2.63 over 43 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.04% per year between 1980 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 263.07%.​

​

This means that today's prices are 3.63 times as high as average prices since 1980, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index. A dollar today only buys 27.548% of what it could buy back then.​

Acknowledging that people today face different challenges than their parents and grandparents did isn't "making excuses." It's pointing to why the solutions offered by previous generations (especially, "just work harder and suffer though") are not the end-all today. Those solutions may have worked for some, but they also created some big messes that we're all still suffering consequences of.

Your "kids these days are lazy" mentality is the same one that current Disney execs seem to be operating under. Meanwhile, the "kids" (and we are talking about grown adults) will end up doing just fine, but outside the systems and structures set up by the stalwarts of a few generations back and run into the ground by members of your generation.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

You just do not want to take into consideration the individual's drive and ambitions.

It doesn’t take any drive or ambition to work at Disney?

Or by drive and ambition do you mean desire to get the most $$$ possible in life?

 

[MR.Dis]

Yes, I know people have always said "our generation has it harder than any previous generation!" And yes, I know interest rates used to be much higher than they are today. But you can't deny that a dollar went much farther back then than it does today. (I mean, I suppose you could deny it, but you'd be wrong). Here's a handy chart from CPI Inflation Calendar to illustrate my point:

View attachment 701504

Just so we're clear,

$1 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3.63 today, an increase of $2.63 over 43 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.04% per year between 1980 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 263.07%.​

​

This means that today's prices are 3.63 times as high as average prices since 1980, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index. A dollar today only buys 27.548% of what it could buy back then.​

Acknowledging that people today face different challenges than their parents and grandparents did isn't "making excuses." It's pointing to why the solutions offered by previous generations (especially, "just work harder and suffer though") are not the end-all today. Those solutions may have worked for some, but they also created some big messes that we're all still suffering consequences of.

Your "kids these days are lazy" mentality is the same one that current Disney execs seem to be operating under. Meanwhile, the "kids" (and we are talking about grown adults) will end up doing just fine, but outside the systems and structures set up by the stalwarts of a few generations back and run into the ground by members of your generation.

Todays "kids" are no more lazy or ambitious that previous generations. Give the current generation more credit. There are success stories everywhere, but it seems negative news is what sells.

 

[MR.Dis]

It doesn’t take any drive or ambition to work at Disney?

Or by drive and ambition do you mean desire to get the most $$$ possible in life?

Not intended to be aimed at Disney employees only. But if someone works at Disney and wants more out of life, as I mentioned before Disney will reimburse for taking college coursed.

 

[Lilofan]

It doesn’t take any drive or ambition to work at Disney?

Or by drive and ambition do you mean desire to get the most $$$ possible in life?

Some people ( FIRE ) Financially Independent Retire Early who get ahead in life live below their means save , invest and take risks to accumulate assets. When at a point they get to their goals then liabilities is not much of a concern. Some want to live the lifestyle of their desires , up to their eyeballs in liabilities and accumulating assets is just a dream.

 

[flynnibus]

Acknowledging that people today face different challenges than their parents and grandparents did isn't "making excuses." It's pointing to why the solutions offered by previous generations (especially, "just work harder and suffer though") are not the end-all today. Those solutions may have worked for some, but they also created some big messes that we're all still suffering consequences of.

Wait... your argument is inflation has undermined buying power... but your answer is... push more inflationary pressure?

Difference in buying power is not 'face different challenges'. Nor are solutions like 'work harder' creating big messes. I really don't follow your line of thinking here at all. A story of "things are more expensive now and there is a greater divide between haves and have nots" are not really justification for pivoting away from self-responsibility.

Your "kids these days are lazy" mentality is the same one that current Disney execs seem to be operating under.

No, now you're just convoluting arguments to try to strength your case. Discussions about work ethics, engagement, etc are not tied to the things you just addressed. This is an attempt at pililng on to make the point look like it has more substance.

 

[flynnibus]

It doesn’t take any drive or ambition to work at Disney?

Or by drive and ambition do you mean desire to get the most $$$ possible in life?

Most $$$ in life? How about lower metrics... 'Enough money for you'. Yes, that does take drive and motivation. Life isn't a spa day.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I really don't follow your line of thinking here at all.

Nor do I follow yours. It seems to be “Disney is a bad place to work. If you work there you aren’t motivated in life.”

So what is your solution?

 

[RobWDW1971]

Yes, I know people have always said "our generation has it harder than any previous generation!" And yes, I know interest rates used to be much higher than they are today. But you can't deny that a dollar went much farther back then than it does today. (I mean, I suppose you could deny it, but you'd be wrong). Here's a handy chart from CPI Inflation Calendar to illustrate my point:

View attachment 701504

Just so we're clear,

$1 in 1980 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $3.63 today, an increase of $2.63 over 43 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.04% per year between 1980 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 263.07%.​

​

This means that today's prices are 3.63 times as high as average prices since 1980, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index. A dollar today only buys 27.548% of what it could buy back then.​

Acknowledging that people today face different challenges than their parents and grandparents did isn't "making excuses." It's pointing to why the solutions offered by previous generations (especially, "just work harder and suffer though") are not the end-all today. Those solutions may have worked for some, but they also created some big messes that we're all still suffering consequences of.

Your "kids these days are lazy" mentality is the same one that current Disney execs seem to be operating under. Meanwhile, the "kids" (and we are talking about grown adults) will end up doing just fine, but outside the systems and structures set up by the stalwarts of a few generations back and run into the ground by members of your generation.

OK, now I think you are just punking us.

Feel free to add what the Florida minimum wage was in 1980 and what it is in now in 2023. Oh, and add what home mortgage interest rates were during that five year period between 1976-1980 vs. 2019-2023.

Hey, this is fun! Let's next compare today vs. the late 60's to see how many Intstagram models were drafted against their will to go die in Vietnam! Wow, these kids today have it so hard! #mentalhealth

Man, I wish I knew I had it so easy back in the 1970's living large working for minimum wage in multiple jobs and people just throwing money and free houses at me!

 

[flynnibus]

Nor do I follow yours. It seems to be “Disney is a bad place to work. If you work there you aren’t motivated in life.”

So what is your solution?

If your complaint is "my job sucks and my boss won't do anything about it"
Yes, my solution is "get a different job"

Eventually that employer will have to deal with the fact no one wants to work under their criteria or suffer the lack of employees.

If your solution is "But I don't want to get another job!" - Then I say BOO HOO and don't have the empathy for you because you don't have the self-responsibility to do something about your situation.

It's not your job to keep your employer in business until they get their act together.

 

[_caleb]

Wait... your argument is inflation has undermined buying power... but your answer is... push more inflationary pressure?

Difference in buying power is not 'face different challenges'. Nor are solutions like 'work harder' creating big messes. I really don't follow your line of thinking here at all. A story of "things are more expensive now and there is a greater divide between haves and have nots" are not really justification for pivoting away from self-responsibility.


No, now you're just convoluting arguments to try to strength your case. Discussions about work ethics, engagement, etc are not tied to the things you just addressed. This is an attempt at pililng on to make the point look like it has more substance.

Man, I typically enjoy your contributions on these boards, but when you go in to accusatory debate mode, it takes a lot of the fun out of the discussion for me.

My last few posts here were engaging about the related conversation of generational challenges. Differences in buying power are part of those challenges; previous generations of CMs were able to afford living closer to WDW than current CMs can afford. This results in many additional challenges, like transportation, working a second job, etc. The message of "work harder" in general is fine. I believe many people need to develop a stronger work ethic, and I'm all for self-responsibility. But when this message said in ignorance of the challenges people actually face, it's comes across as condescending and trite.

I'm not clear how my answer would "push more inflationary pressure." The only "haves and have-nots" I've intended to reference are Disney's frontline CMs and its extremely-well-compensated higher-ups.

I have no problem with others not sharing my opinions. I try to think rationally and logically, but I acknowledge that my opinions could very well be wrong. You're welcome to ask me to clarify if something I post sounds self-contradictory, but this isn't a competition to shoot holes in an argument, it's a discussion!

 

[_caleb]

OK, now I think you are just punking us.

Feel free to add what the Florida minimum wage was in 1980 and what it is in now in 2023. Oh, and add what home mortgage interest rates were during that five year period between 1976-1980 vs. 2019-2023.

Hey, this is fun! Let's next compare today vs. the late 60's to see how many Intstagram models were drafted against their will to go die in Vietnam! Wow, these kids today have it so hard! #mentalhealth

Man, I wish I knew I had it so easy back in the 1970's living large working for minimum wage in multiple jobs and people just throwing money and free houses at me!

Pointing out that adults today face different challenges than previous generations doesn't mean that those generations had it easy. I'm saying that the solutions that worked in the past aren't as relevant today.

It's not a competition, every generation faces some basic human challenges and some unique challenges. Home mortgage interest rates were indeed much higher in the 80s. Housing values were much cheaper, though and rent was cheaper compared today (and in Central Florida, innovations like AirBnB have made this even worse).

My point is that what worked to survive and thrive in previous generations does not necessarily work today. I believe this factors into the case of Disney's Cast Members and their union negotiations. Disney seems to be treating CMs like "unskilled labor," when the company aspires to something that isn't possible under that paradigm today.

 

[_caleb]

For an example that some get to a point In their life to accomplish goals accompanied by blood sweat and tears there is an excuse why it cannot be done.

Nope, you're still not understanding me. I'm not saying that "it cannot be done." I'm saying that the strategies and solutions for getting it done in the past are of limited use today. I think this is particularly relevant in the discussion about Disney CM pay.

 

[Lilofan]

Nope, you're still not understanding me. I'm not saying that "it cannot be done." I'm saying that the strategies and solutions for getting it done in the past are of limited use today. I think this is particularly relevant in the discussion about Disney CM pay.

Well that's the unions to fight for a higher wage for the cast but reality sets in when company and union compromise during negotiations and the unions convince the cast to approve the contract. Both parties will declare victory / Rinse and repeat every few years.

 

[Jrb1979]

But don't you see the impossibility of that?? You just mentioned the problem outside forces that the business any business has no control over can cause the cost of living to go out of control. Never mind Disney, I can't imagine how a small business or restaurant is supposed to keep up with that?
At one time wasn't the object to move out of these low paying jobs?? So you're a burger flipper and you want a 35k-40k a year and never enters your mind to say "you know I can't live on this lousy salary, let me make a plan to get something that pays more".

SMH God bless them, it took me less than a year to figure out sales clerking at a major retailer was not going to support me in nyc and never did I think Macy's or Walmart "owed" me anything.

Okay I'm going to bow out, I both sides lots of luck.

I work for a retailer. I guess $30 an hour with a bonus of $3200 every 6 months isn't good enough for you.

 

[_caleb]

I work for a retailer. I guess $30 an hour with a bonus of $3200 every 6 months isn't good enough for you.

Out of curiosity, what would be a starting ("entry-level") pay in retail in your area (Canada, if I recall)?

 

[Jrb1979]

Out of curiosity, what would be a starting ("entry-level") pay in retail in your area (Canada, if I recall)?

Where I work you start at $17.50 but get a $1 raise every 1000 hours worked.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I work for a retailer. I guess $30 an hour with a bonus of $3200 every 6 months isn't good enough for you.

That’s fantastic for retail! Are you a manager?