Disney, VR/AR, and Apple's WWDC 2023

[Trauma]

It’s funny how this is also a thread to air out grievances against IPhone or something.

Apple is a love/hate company I guess.

 

[MrPromey]

This headset from Apple is AR though not VR which people seem to be talking about

It's both.

You can "turn off" the outside world for an entirely VR experience, still.

 

[MrPromey]

It’s funny how this is also a thread to air out grievances against IPhone or something.

Apple is a love/hate company I guess.

We're just on a tangent because Captain is trying to argue the iPhone was some brand new product unrelated to anything that had ever come before it where as the Vision Pro, is just Apple's copy of a VR headset that according to him, nobody - as in zero people - wants.

Sorry, but all of that seems ridiculous to me.

By all appearances, the Vision Pro is launching very much in the same way the iPhone did by improving on the functionality of existing products and pulling the category more out of the shadows of niche and into the mainstream by taking features previously only available in what are actual pro level devices (in this case, something like the Varjo XR-3) wrapping it all up in an "Apple UI" and putting them in a product marketed towards a consumer audience at a price point well above what that market is accustomed to.

The fact that I saw three commercials for the dang thing yesterday on Youtube when it isn't even set to go on sale until 2024 makes that seem pretty obvious to me.

Personally, I've never owned anything but an iPhone since the 3G (and I did clock in a few months with the original) so I'm certainly not hating on them but my memory is long enough to remember a device that didn't have things like OS level copy/paste, autocorrect/spell-check*, or support for emojis without going into settings and jumping through hoops to get a Japanese keyboard working on them - they didn't start off as the relatively polished product we've seen for the last decade and that some people around here have grown up with.

*I remember buying a third party app for email when the app store launched because it had both copy/paste - just within the app - and a spell check function built in. Anyone who reads more than one of my posts understands why I need autocorrect!

 

[Trauma]

We're just on a tangent because Captain is trying to argue that the iPhone was some brand new product unrelated to anything that had ever come before it where as the Vision Pro, is just Apple's copy of a VR headset that according to him, nobody - as in zero people - wants.

Sorry, but all of that seems ridiculous to me.

By all appearances, the Vision Pro is launching very much in the same way the iPhone did by improving on the functionality of existing products and pulling the category more out of the shadows of niche and into the mainstream by taking features previously only available in what are actual pro level devices (in this case, something like the Varjo XR-3) and putting them in a product marketed towards a consumer audience at a price point well above what that market is accustomed to.

The fact that I saw three commercials for the dang thing yesterday on Youtube when it isn't even set to go on sale until 2024 makes that seem pretty obvious to me.

Personally, I've never owned anything but an iPhone since the 3G (and I did clock in a few months with the original) so I'm certainly not hating on them but my memory is long enough to remember them as a device that didn't have things like OS level copy/paste, autocorrect/spell-check*, or support for emojis without going into settings and jumping through hoops to get a Japanese keyboard working on them - they didn't start as the relatively polished product we've seen for the last decade.

*I remember buying a third party app for email when the app store launched because it had both copy/paste and a spell check function built in.

Its cool I enjoy the back and forth.

I didn’t realize how much people know about phone history.

 

[jeanericuser001]

One thing to understand about vr is you gotta treat it like a computer. A computer requires you to use a number of different programs to get the full benefits. In return for using the programs you get abilities that normally would not be available. With a web browser you have access to the internet. With a media player you can watch music.

The trick to getting the most out of it is to use it for various situations. For example, I will use 360 vr recordings to ride an attraction I normally can not get to in person so I can see everything the attraction has. A 360 recording unlike a standard recording will allow you to see everything in every direction which can be far more enjoyable than only being in a forced perspective. I also use vr for viewing various movies in a scale often seen only in imax films. This way I can see every detail no matter how small as I can literally move up to the screen to look exactly at that little detail. Movies like Ready player one are great for this as you can take the time to examine things in far better detail than you would on a tv screen. Then there is the travel videos. Believe it or not but a lot of places have created travel videos specifically to allow you a chance to see what its like in these places. Its also good for the national geographic videos. Ever wanted to stand in the middle of the african savannah and watch as herd of elephants approaches? That is just the video side.

Its also good for productivity. If you do cad design and you want to examine what you created in a 3d realm then this is a good way to do so. There is also apps being made for teaching a number of different things from learning how to weld with certain tools or even surgeon apps that teach surgeons how to use certain medical instruments. Then of course there is the social interaction sites though honestly those themselves have become a meme unto themselves sadly.

Honestly vr is constantly expanding in its potential options but the problem is not hardware as right now the technology is evolving faster than consumers can keep up. Most people can barely handle the concept of 4k vr when in truth companies like pimax have created 8k vr which no one has yet to even create apps to fully utilize resolutions that big. The problem is the software side as there are so many platforms and as each new platform expands to the next os the old programs get left behind then eventually abandoned. That is why stuff made for the early oculus products can not be used with the latest quest version. That is why we need more development and someone daring enough to create a unified system that all platforms can share. Till then there will likely be a divide between what you can do versus what you can do on something else.

I currently have 3 different vr devices that I have gotten at different stages. The pimax is fantastic for vr viewing due to its super sweet clarity in 4k. The oculus go is good for vr on the go whether it be watching vr while on a long road trip or just for quick vr content. The oculus quest is all about activity as you can do a lot of activity based games ie tennis, boxing, sword fighting, mountain climbing, and etc.

 

[MrPromey]

Its cool I enjoy the back and forth.

I didn’t realize how much people know about phone history.

Some of us are old enough (and nerdy enough) to have been into this stuff before the iPhone, is all.

I know what Apple brought to the table both at launch and over time (which was substantial) but I also know what didn't begin with them.*

That said, my knowledge of phones outside of Apple starts to drop off dramatically after its launch because that's been my only real phone since.

*unless we want to muddy everything about phones and PDAs further and start talking about the Apple Newton which was notazzoo not a phone.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I believe the "Android" (before Google bought it) was out before the iPhone but it wasn't super popular yet

Nope. Android came out afterwards

 

[willf]

Some of us are old enough (and nerdy enough) to have been into this stuff before the iPhone, is all.

I know what Apple brought to the table both at launch and over time (which was substantial) but I also know what didn't begin with them.*

That said, my knowledge of phones outside of Apple starts to drop off dramatically after its launch because that's been my only real phone since.

*unless we want to muddy everything about phones and PDAs further and start talking about the Apple Newton which was notazzoo not a phone.

I too am a geezer who had a Newton and a Handspring Visor and assorted Windows Mobile devices. It's funny how I'm basically living in young-me's technological paradise and I still can't find anything to watch on my Apple TV with access to virtually everything ever made. Such is life, I suppose.

 

[networkpro]

Anyone see any irony in this post ?

So it's going to devolve into the "touching grass" folks in Physical Disneyworld/Land vs Disney VRLand? That would appease lots of different demographics.... DisneyVR where you can choose the ethnicity, the exact shade of every face you see, language for all signage and what's spoken, as well as the content of every attraction.

Sorry Folks! Stitch ate your data feed!

 

[Ayla]

We're just on a tangent because Captain is trying to argue that the iPhone was some brand new product unrelated to anything that had ever come before it where as the Vision Pro, is just Apple's copy of a VR headset that according to him, nobody - as in zero people - wants.

Sorry, but all of that seems ridiculous to me.

By all appearances, the Vision Pro is launching very much in the same way the iPhone did by improving on the functionality of existing products and pulling the category more out of the shadows of niche and into the mainstream by taking features previously only available in what are actual pro level devices (in this case, something like the Varjo XR-3) wrapping it all up in an "Apple UI" and putting them in a product marketed towards a consumer audience at a price point well above what that market is accustomed to.

The fact that I saw three commercials for the dang thing yesterday on Youtube when it isn't even set to go on sale until 2024 makes that seem pretty obvious to me.

Personally, I've never owned anything but an iPhone since the 3G (and I did clock in a few months with the original) so I'm certainly not hating on them but my memory is long enough to remember a device that didn't have things like OS level copy/paste, autocorrect/spell-check*, or support for emojis without going into settings and jumping through hoops to get a Japanese keyboard working on them - they didn't start as the relatively polished product we've seen for the last decade and that some people around here have grown up with.

*I remember buying a third party app for email when the app store launched because it had both copy/paste - just within the app - and a spell check function built in.

You saw ads for it on youtube because you're talking about it here.

 

[ChrisFL]

That is why we need more development and someone daring enough to create a unified system that all platforms can share. Till then there will likely be a divide between what you can do versus what you can do on something else.

That's been one of the biggest stumbling blocks. It's like Playstation vs Xbox vs Nintendo, but the market is like 1% of those. A more unified setup or at least easily coded could go a long way. Apple probably thinks they can just take over the market because Hololens is not doing great/practically dead (?), and Meta is still trying to become popular

 

[MrPromey]

You saw ads for it on youtube because you're talking about it here.

Lol, probably!

 

[MrPromey]

I too am a geezer who had a Newton and a Handspring Visor and assorted Windows Mobile devices. It's funny how I'm basically living in young-me's technological paradise and I still can't find anything to watch on my Apple TV with access to virtually everything ever made. Such is life, I suppose.

When Newton's came out, there was no way I was going to convince and adult to buy one for me and the year they stopped making them, there was no way I'd have been able to afford one but man did I want one.

Silly thinking back on that, now.

 

[MrPromey]

I was talking about VR vs. AR/MR because they are very different things. There are still people who think full VR is the future of everything, and that's never made much sense. AR/MR will eventually become a daily use product for the average person; VR will not.

The really hardcore VR aficionados don't seem able to grasp that not everyone loves it the way they do -- it gets tiring reading/hearing variations of "well once you've tried it you'll understand", while ignoring all of the people who have tried it and don't agree with them. I have tried VR (in multiple formats) and it's fun, but it's not something I'd ever want to use regularly.

As I said in the last sentence of the post you quoted, that's not an issue for this Apple product because it isn't solely a VR headset.

Thanks for the elaboration.

At this point, it seems like the two biggest players are moving to a VR/AR/MR model rather than just VR (and Apple's working hard to keep the stink of VR away from their devices by not even mentioning it) so I think that'll eventually be the direction everyone moves and VR won't really fail, it'll just be evolved away from as the primary use-case of these devices going forward - still there for gaming and other cases where someone would want it but not the default.

Sony will probably be the last pure VR holdout with their PSVR2 but being tethered to a game console, that unit would have had incredibly limited appeal as an AR/MR device even if they had incorporated it, anyway.

For Meta, I think Apple entering the ring may have been the best possible thing for them. Their system interface is a bit... lacking and I'm sure they'll start "borrowing" UI concepts from the new OS almost immediately and Apple will do a better job of creating the impression that this is a must in people's lives than Mark was ever going to. That combined with them coming in at a fraction of the price will make their hardware, at least in the short term, the everyone-who-want's-one alternative with no needed battery.

In the long-term, I wouldn't be surprised to see them settle into an Android like position which, would be sort of fitting considering what's under the hood of the OS in these.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It’s funny how this is also a thread to air out grievances against IPhone or something.

Apple is a love/hate company I guess.

Also a thread?

You mean there are other threads about a thing that isn't out yet, e.g., a ride or an attraction or a park or a movie or a show; and people pile in there to air grievances about it before it's complete?!

Why, I've never heard of such a thing!!

 

[Trauma]

Also a thread?

You mean there are other threads about a thing that isn't out yet, e.g., a ride or an attraction or a park or a movie or a show; and people pile in there to air grievances about it before it's complete?!

Why, I've never heard of such a thing!!

I hear ya.

I just didn’t know that it was a thing with cell phones.

It’s cool to see people passionate about the tech.

I get a new phone and can’t even tell the difference from the last one. That’s how tech stupid I am.

 

[MrPromey]

I hear ya.

I just didn’t know that it was a thing with cell phones.

It’s cool to see people passionate about the tech.

I get a new phone and can’t even tell the difference from the last one. That’s how tech stupid I am.

To be fair, we're kind of past the boom days of smart phones when changes between versions were dramatic.

Faster processors, more ram, better camera - rinse and repeat. OS improvements are more on the level of refinements than advancements in a lot of cases, too.

Some have come up with ways to differentiate like with the folding phones but the market is now pretty mature in terms of covering people's needs/expectations.

That's kind of why Apple needs to find new places to shake money from. A lot of people are sitting on their existing phones for 2, 3, 4 years instead of feeling compelled to get the latest and greatest each cycle, now.

 

[UNCgolf]

VR won't really fail, it'll just be evolved away from as the primary use-case of these devices going forward - still there for gaming and other cases where someone would want it but not the default.

Yeah, that's what I think. VR will settle in as a somewhat lesser version of the iPad/tablet -- a secondary use device for the average consumer. There will be people who make it their primary use device, but they won't be the majority.

It's a boon for both hardware developers and end users that VR can be included in the same device as AR/MR, though, instead of having to develop/purchase something wholly separate. There was a push to do that with tablets/laptops, but it seems to have mostly failed (at least for the time being).

 

[WDWFREAK53]

When it comes to this product…do you think it’s the next step in seclusion? People are already antisocial with their noses in their phones but now this will really shut people out from the world around them. So, Mr. Goldblum….what’s that?

 

[networkpro]

When it comes to this product…do you think it’s the next step in seclusion? People are already antisocial with their noses in their phones but now this will really shut people out from the world around them. So, Mr. Goldblum….what’s that?

What's it going to be?

Or

They can spout all the niceties of its intended uses, but human nature will take
over to turn those fluffy cluds and rainbows to something much less savory.