Disney to increase the number of FastPass+ entitlements per day and include park hopping

[jlsHouston]

Agreed that it is far more about deceiving guests as opposed to actually caring that you and your family get to do what you want. Do people really believe that they sit in the board room and discuss their desire to please the guests and make sure little Johnny can ride his favorite attraction??? Yeah, right. You said it, MM+ is strictly about keeping guests on property. Everything else Disney says about it is pure spin. All Disney has to do is say, "its to guarantee that your family gets to do what you want" and people feel like Disney really cares about them. Yes, they care so much about us, which is why they charge between $125- $650 per night for a hotel room and raise park admission, parking fees, food prices, etc. I really feel the love.

hahaha all the way to the bank, me too!

 

[merry68]

I think what bothers me is the fact that folks were upset at 3, and now there was an announcement that we may be able to get additional FPs after our initial 3 have been used, maybe park hopping, and no word if re-rides are allowed.

I have been thinking about this.. by requiring us to use the 3 FPs, we are already in the parks for at least 3hrs if you book back to back times. Then we may be able to pick up a 4th, but will it be something we want? Wow, 4 FPs, golly that's not a lot. Add in the time it takes to park hop, or make/reschedule a FP reservation, and well, precious time is ticking away. In the end, it seems like we ALL will be riding less and less, or maybe not being able to re-ride a favorite in the same day.

Is this crowd control?? When it was first announced, some posters were thinking of moving their current pre-booked FPs around. Does that mean that TDO is seeing unfavorable patterns pop up in the data in regards to Guest travel and inpark time? I know we won't know those answers, I am just throwing out my curiosity.

So I guess I am too cynical to get too happy just yet. According to my hubby, my glass in life is usally half empty, lol, not half full.

 

[TheRabbit]

Where did you hear that? There have been other threads on here where people have said it worked for them... maybe as a test or something? It seems like they would want it as close to fully implemented as possible before the summer rush... also, it seems counterproductive to have anyone official on the record as saying it's coming with no time estimates beyond "soon" if they are going to miss the summer rush (and thus a huge chunk of their customers for the year).

I got the information from a guest services manager running a fast pass kiosk, who has been involved with the magic band since its inception. I asked many questions that they did not have answers for, but that was one answer they knew.

 

[cw1982]

Hmm... well it'll be interesting to see what happens when.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

I think what bothers me is the fact that folks were upset at 3, and now there was an announcement that we may be able to get additional FPs after our initial 3 have been used, maybe park hopping, and no word if re-rides are allowed.

I have been thinking about this.. by requiring us to use the 3 FPs, we are already in the parks for at least 3hrs if you book back to back times. Then we may be able to pick up a 4th, but will it be something we want? Wow, 4 FPs, golly that's not a lot. Add in the time it takes to park hop, or make/reschedule a FP reservation, and well, precious time is ticking away. In the end, it seems like we ALL will be riding less and less, or maybe not being able to re-ride a favorite in the same day.

Is this crowd control?? When it was first announced, some posters were thinking of moving their current pre-booked FPs around. Does that mean that TDO is seeing unfavorable patterns pop up in the data in regards to Guest travel and inpark time? I know we won't know those answers, I am just throwing out my curiosity.

So I guess I am too cynical to get too happy just yet. According to my hubby, my glass in life is usally half empty, lol, not half full.

Well, since the announcement isn't official. Who knows what may happen. They may allow re-rides, they may allow you 3 FPs at any park, and not require you to use 3 in one park then hop. So you may not be stuck in a park for 3 hours.
They recently made park hopping easier with direct park to park transportation. So it will take less time to hop.

Idk if it is crowd control or not. For awhile, people were constantly complaining about not being able to relax on vacation & having to hit rope drop just to ride (TSMM for example) and now I think Disney was looking for a way to solve this issue and not people are even more unhappy. I for one have no first hand experience with it yet. But I'm staying open minded.

 

[doctornick]

I have been thinking about this.. by requiring us to use the 3 FPs, we are already in the parks for at least 3hrs if you book back to back times. Then we may be able to pick up a 4th, but will it be something we want? Wow, 4 FPs, golly that's not a lot. Add in the time it takes to park hop, or make/reschedule a FP reservation, and well, precious time is ticking away. In the end, it seems like we ALL will be riding less and less, or maybe not being able to re-ride a favorite in the same day.

No, we ALL can't be riding less and less; it's impossible with fixed ride capacity unless the attendence at the parks is markedly increased.

It is certainly true that FP+ causes many folks (myself included) who were efficient with paper FP to not be able to ride as much. Even the additional amounts beyond 3 per day won't bring it up to the same levels. But the reason for that is because a ton of people never or barely used paper FP in the past -- so for any of those folks, getting and using 3 FP+ in a day is a marked improvement and will enable them to ride on more rides. The reason for so much less availability on rides in FP+ is because a lot of folks are using the system -- and getting some benefit -- that never did before. And this takes up a lot of the Fastpass capacity that was previously available under paper FP.

 

[jlsHouston]

Well I don't know what kind of feedback Disney was getting in August/September/October, but I will lay the claim that by November those of us using FP+ in it's earliest testing phases with the MB's and legacy still in place were already making noises to personnel about 3 FP+ and no FP for multiple parks.

So I am very happy after 5 months plus of "testing", Disney is finally announcing further expansion of the number of FP's available and across multiple parks.

I honestly love the discussions I have read through the past 16 pages as to how FP+ should or could work, and what its' impact has been on touring plans and wait times.

 

[jlsHouston]

You see that as a problem but Disney probably sees it as a good thing - averaging out the wait times and getting more people to do more of the "classic" attractions instead of all just bunching up at the big, popular E-tickets, was, I'm sure, part of their goal.

I thought it was odd, first that they added the interactive extended queue to the haunted mansion, then that they made it optional. Why did the mansion need this? Were they planning for this?

Really? I guess I just assumed the extended interactive queue was available kind of like Winnie the Pooh queue...more because of fun and creativity than FP related.

 

[jlsHouston]

wth? "keeping secrets" is no part of any legitimate software development cycle. Anyone who keeps things secret 'in case you run into issues' is the 'antithesis' of sound development practices. Agility is the foundation for adapting to unforeseen issues... not hiding it from people. And NONE of that is reasons for keeping roadmaps secret. The top two reasons for secrecy in product development is keeping the competition at bay and protecting existing sales.

The key to solid customer relationships is trust - not 'need to know'.

And trust is the foundation Staggs is building MM+ on per his quote in USA Today:

"We designed this with privacy in mind from the get go," says Staggs. "Walt Disney World Parks and Resort's vision is simple, it's to be the most trusted provider of shared family travel and leisure experiences throughout the world. The key word there is trusted. We won't betray that trust."

Okay the most interesting part of this thread is the topic y'all were touching on initially was the fluidity or versatility of the software development.

Was it more static originally? I think so. And that is why the clouds were having so many difficulties last fall and winter "talking" to one another when you tried to transfer data from dvc to resorts or vice versa. Maybe also explains some of the hesitancy for announcing bringing the other groups of guests into the cloud until it was actually getting ready to happen. Staggs announcing the increase of number of FP's for selection along with the park hopping feature I see as either a response to the outcry of the limits imposed with the second phase of testing and removal of legacy, or his IT has indicated they have got the code almost ready to handle this feature...or maybe even both.

 

[flynnibus]

Was it more static originally? I think so. And that is why the clouds were having so many difficulties last fall and winter "talking" to one another when you tried to transfer data from dvc to resorts or vice versa

Not 'clouds' (simply distinct systems) and not a pivot in methodology.. simply the early problems were tell tale signs of poor development. They didn't know their data, they didn't know their use cases, and they didn't prioritize the tasks correctly.

The idea of a phased rollout really doesn't expose anything. Something of this size you have to do that - the hard part is when overhauling a 24/7/365 system like Disney is finding the boundaries where you can segment your product for iterative releases, without causing even more troubles. The problems seen in early testing with data compatibility, inconsistencies, and general lack of addressing use cases all point to bad planning, development, and management - not product strategy.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As long as you believe the queue isn't holding more than one show capacity... But I don't know why you believe that is always the case

I asked Len Testa who confirmed that with the exception of the final American Idol show and Fantasmic! You can walk into a show 95% of the time 4 minutes in advance. That's fairly conclusive evidence to me that Fastpass+ on shows is deception, nothing more. Add in the fact that Disney has only run Fastpass on shows as an experimental basis during times of peak crowds, further reinforces this. Prior to Fastpass+, Captain EO ran Fastpass for one day, July 4th, the day it re-opened (If it wasn't the 4th it was around the 4th). MuppetVision 3D had it when Fastpass first rolled out and it was quickly removed. Many other shows never had it.

@BigTxEars and others are calling this an opinion, but it really isn't. It's a theory grounded in fact and logic. As I said earlier in this thread, I do think there is another alternative explanation other than deception for Disney's uber scheduling (other than deception) but even under this alternative explanation (which I still haven't seen anyone here mention) the scheduling of low demand attractions should not be necessary.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This. Exactly.

I have learned the hard way these last two days that disagreeing with those who know everything will only get you bashed and insulted until you either agree or let them have the last word. I have no further comment on this thread. All I was trying to do was contribute to the discussion and am still a little shocked by how determined some are to be right.

Like said above, this should be a positive thing, not a reason to argue. As I said on a different post, it's not like Disney will change their procedure just based on this thread anyway (something that has been ignored as the discussion continued), so why can we not just agree to disagree and be happy that they are working to improve this?

I'm not interested in furthering the debate. That's all I am going to say.

I don't believe I engaged in insults, but I did disagree with you and others. If I insulted you, I apologize. However, I have yet to hear a reason why Fastpass+ was added to additional attractions other than what I have presented (to make the math work). I can't stand the approach of, "let's agree to disagree" when someone is unable to defend their side of the discussion. This site is for discussion and just because I'm telling you and others that you're wrong doesn't mean that I'm insulting you. It means that you can either agree that you're wrong, show me that I'm wrong, or no longer engage in the conversation.

As for saying we should be happy about this. Yes, we should be but to me it would be the equivalent of putting in a yeti with less motion. Yes it's an improvement over what's there, but it's far from what it should be.

 

[BigTxEars]

I asked Len Testa who confirmed that with the exception of the final American Idol show and Fantasmic! You can walk into a show 95% of the time 4 minutes in advance. That's fairly conclusive evidence to me that Fastpass+ on shows is deception, nothing more. Add in the fact that Disney has only run Fastpass on shows as an experimental basis during times of peak crowds, further reinforces this. Prior to Fastpass+, Captain EO ran Fastpass for one day, July 4th, the day it re-opened (If it wasn't the 4th it was around the 4th). MuppetVision 3D had it when Fastpass first rolled out and it was quickly removed. Many other shows never had it.

@BigTxEars and others are calling this an opinion, but it really isn't. It's a theory grounded in fact and logic. As I said earlier in this thread, I do think there is another alternative explanation other than deception for Disney's uber scheduling (other than deception) but even under this alternative explanation (which I still haven't seen anyone here mention) the scheduling of low demand attractions should not be necessary.

No what I said was that it was your opinion that it was a poor use of a FP+ because you do not see the benefit of using it to plan your trip. That's not for you to decide for others, when you do that's called giving your opinion not giving a fact. I clearly posted I don't care if I walk in with 99% of the non FP+ crowd when I use my FP+ at Crush. WDW giving me that choice is a good deal to me IMO, if you don't like it then that's your right and your opinion, not fact.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Honestly, this right here is the only thing I don't like about having three FP+. I too ended up picking a third FP+ that I really don't care anything about using, but I went ahead and picked it because, if the option to get more FP+ ends up being available by the time I get there, I don't want to risk losing the chance to get another Tier 1 FP+ just because I had room for one more tier 2.

Maybe a good compromise would be to keep it at 3 in MK and AK, and then in HS and Epcot find some other way to address the tier thing? I still don't like the idea of taking away the third option for people who want it, whether they really "need" it or not on a time management level, but it seems like there should be another way to fix this for people who want more thrills and less of the slow rides.

I agree, making it so that every guest needs to get 3 FP+ attractions is silly (it reinforces my other point but I'll let that be in this post). I would argue that by forcing guests to selecting 3 FP+ attractions at a park like Epcot further inflates Fastpass lines and allows the powers that be to talk about the increase in usage. Unnecessary usage of Fastpass at attractions like Spaceship Earth, The Seas with Nemo and Friends and Journey into Imagination is a convenient way to validate their usage when the actual time savings is minimal.

This (among other reasons) is why I want to reduce the number of advanced bookings to 1 as it would eliminate the tiers, potentially eliminate usage at lower demand attractions, and eliminate the uber scheduling months in advance.

 

[RSoxNo1]

No what I said was that it was your opinion that it was a poor use of a FP+ because you do not see the benefit of using it to plan your trip. That's not for you to decide for others, when you do that's called giving your opinion not giving a fact. I clearly posted I don't care if I walk in with 99% of the non FP+ crowd when I use my FP+ at Crush. WDW giving me that choice is a good deal to me IMO, if you don't like it then that's your right and your opinion, not fact.

And as I have said, you are absolutely entitled to tour using the current system however you see fit. You can book Fastpasses where I don't believe they are necessary and that is 100% your preferance. However, remove yourself and your touring style from it as I have done and you'll see that Fastpass+ usage on the 21-23 attractions (depending if you include Mansion/Pirates) I listed does not result in a considerable time savings. From a consumer standpoint, Fastpass+ is designed to be a time savings, and Disney is selling at as such. Because these 21-23 attractions do not produce that time savings I consider that deception. It's the same way I consider using footage of a moving Yeti deceptive as well.

 

[ParentsOf4]

No what I said was that it was your opinion that it was a poor use of a FP+ because you do not see the benefit of using it to plan your trip. That's not for you to decide for others, when you do that's called giving your opinion not giving a fact. I clearly posted I don't care if I walk in with 99% of the non FP+ crowd when I use my FP+ at Crush. WDW giving me that choice is a good deal to me IMO, if you don't like it then that's your right and your opinion, not fact.

Quoting from the Disney webpage:

With Disney FastPass+ service, not only can you spend less time waiting in line in the theme parks, but you can make FastPass+ selections for attractions and entertainment experiences before you even leave home—and make changes on the go!​

It seems to me Disney is claiming that FP+ is a time-saver. To @RSoxNo1's point, "You can walk into a show 95% of the time 4 minutes in advance. That's fairly conclusive evidence to me that Fastpass+ on shows is deception, nothing more."

Disney is claiming FP+ is a time-saver yet, according to objective evidence from @lentesta, it often is not for shows. I fail to see how this is an opinion.

 

[DonaldDude23]

Does anybody know when the parking hopping abilities along with being able to obtain more than 3 will be put into effect, if not so done already?

 

[Virtual Toad]

FP+ for shows and attractions that don't need them is partly about *perceived* value-- hey, look at all this great stuff you can get FP+ for! What actual value that has is debatable and, as others have said, it depends on the guests.

But let me make an argument that FP+ for shows and minor attractions does add value for everyone using the system. It allows Disney to spread out the total FP demand. By dilluting the pool with "unnecessary" attractions, more FP *return slots* are available for major attractions because a percentage of users, due to ignorance or even personal preferences, are choosing the minors instead of the E-tickets.

Space Mountain can only have X number of FP slots per day due to fixed capacity-- there's a point where you cannot load more than a fixed number of riders per hour. I would also argue that the "optimal" number of FPs distributed each day is less than X-- because at some point too many people in FP lines will not only make the FP line unreasonably long, it will also increase standby times beyond tolerability.

So how do you give the most guests the most value? By spreading out demand on the FP system-- in effect, taking potential FP users away from Space Mountain and distributing them across several minor attractions instead.

Think of it this way... if there are 30,000 FP participants on a given day, and the only FP available is Space Mountain, the FPs for Space Mountain would sell out too quickly and many guests would be left unsatisfied-- without any value to show for their participation in the system.

But take that same pool of 30k guests and give them a dozen FPs to choose from, and the stress is spread across the ride capacity numbers for the entire park.

This mode of operation relies heavily on a set percentage of guests making uninformed or "unique" choices. But even those choices have some perceived value (at least when they're made) and that helps allow those who want to FP Space Mountain get they value *they* want out of the system. So by spreading out demand across capacity park-wide, the system can allow more value for everyone who uses it.

In the end it is still a shell game and the only real solution is to decrease attendance or add real capacity. What value a guest sees in his choice when the standby line for a show is just as short as the FP line is indeed debatable. How long the system can hold up over time is also up for debate, as guests slowly become more educated on how best to work the system.

Sorry for the long-winded post

 

[ParentsOf4]

Does anybody know when the parking hopping abilities along with being able to obtain more than 3 will be put into effect, if not so done already?

No date has been announced.

 

[flynnibus]

I asked Len Testa who confirmed that with the exception of the final American Idol show and Fantasmic! You can walk into a show 95% of the time 4 minutes in advance

95% Well I'm sure people are thrilled about the other 364 days a year are.. when they only care about the line right now. I find it AMAZING that my experiences all fall within the 5%. Also, you don't mention where you end up trying to walk up at the last minute. Try doing that with a family of 4 or 5 and see how pleasant of an experience that is.

That's fairly conclusive evidence to me that Fastpass+ on shows is deception, nothing more. Add in the fact that Disney has only run Fastpass on shows as an experimental basis during times of peak crowds, further reinforces this

That's what we would call a logical fallacy. Correlation does not mean causation. Motivations for FP or not are not just about wait times.

As I said earlier in this thread, I do think there is another alternative explanation other than deception for Disney's uber scheduling (other than deception) but even under this alternative explanation (which I still haven't seen anyone here mention) the scheduling of low demand attractions should not be necessary.

Open your mind some and recognize not everyone justifies the same as you do.

• Is Concierge really necessary to get a reservation 95% of the time? Or do people value the convenience?
• Do people really want to go through that long snaking line for Nemo the Musical and be herded like cattle... or is there value in having a less crowded, more convenient entrance?
• Is there any value in being able to NOT CARE if there is a line that day or not?
• Is there value in knowing a reliable time for something?
• Is there value in putting something down as a commitment to ensure you do it vs chancing you overlook it in the rush of the day?
• Is there value in Disney being able to offer CONSISTENT services across attractions.. vs having to say "well you can use this here and here.. but not there, there, or over there, or you really don't need it there"

These are just some of the values of having a FP for a show. Stop trying to weigh FPs against each other (a show FP vs a space mountain FP) and you might have an easier time understanding how some appreciate the offer. Yes Disney did it in large part to boost the FP capacity.. but it's not a one sided deal as you keep painting it.